Traumatic Experience

[Adza]

I think dogs should have off lead time definitely but in a contained area of dogs you know only - not in public places where any type of dog can come and go - too much risk for my liking. I know you cannot always avoid these situations but I'd just feel better about it.

The man didn't do anything wrong simply walking his dog on a lead, for another dog to be off lead and bounce up I can see why it would cause an attack.

It's nice to see when other people have really good control of their dogs, in the pet barn the other day we were in there with Tahli and this guy came in with his lab, off leash, ours on leash. The most well behaved obedient dog I have ever seen and they had a play while we chatted, but this dog did everything he asked and it was just so comfortable and relaxed which is how I prefer it.

[megan_]

[sheridan - on leash doesn't mean "under control". If your dog attacks another dog then it isn't under effective control.

megan

The on lead dog was as under control as it could be! The off lead dog obviously wasn't under control as it was bounding over to the other dog. The on lead dog was minding its own business and would not have done anything if the off lead dog hadn't come over.

I don't dispute this. I was replying to Sheridan's post to dogmad. I think that, if you hava a reactive, aggresive dog, you should avoid taking it to the park when there are lots of people about.

As per my previous post, I agree that the OP should never have let her dog approach the other one.

I also don't think that the onlead dog was as under control as it could be. If the dog had displayed this behaviour previously, the owner should have put a muzzle on it?

[Aidan]

If the dog had displayed this behaviour previously, the owner should have put a muzzle on it?

We don't know that it has. It might have been a once-off.

[Kavik]

I don't think you should have to muzzle your dog just because it reacts to an off leash dog bounding up to it while it is being walked on leash

The owner was doing everything he could to keep his dog safe and others safe - walking at the edge of the park with his dog on lead not causing a problem.

Sure maybe not walking at a park where other dogs are likely to be (if he knew his dog was likely to react like that) would have been safer. Or to leave when he saw the other dog at all.

One of mine does not like other dogs at all. I don't go to parks at all or anywhere we are likely to come across off lead dogs, but we have the odd off lead encounter when walking along a very busy 4 lane highway (who knows why you would let your dog off along a main road ). I do not think she needs to be muzzled. We keep our distance from others - pull into a driveway or cross the road if possible, and she is kept on lead and I work on getting her attention on me.

[poochiemama]

Actually it's quite unhelpful and upsetting the way this thread has turned into a blame game 'it's the OP who was at fault' or it was the man at the edge of the park.

As I have explained above a few times, this is an unprecedented event. Hannah was turning around to come back to me. She did not 'get in the dogs face' but stopped in front of the dog.

I am not going to explain and justify it. OBVIOUSLY it was not a good thing that she ran over there but she doesn't do this often, in the last year this has not happened and she is usually very cautious.

Again, as I have explained, it happened much too quickly for me to be able to do anything about it. So it wasn't like I 'allowed' this to happen and therefore I am to blame.

Honestly I was so upset by this last night and just needed a little bit of understanding without everyone jumping to conclusions about what an irresponsible dog owner I am.

I did not judge the guy at the edge of the park, and no, i don't think he was as responsible as he could be. His dog did SERIOUS damage , there were puncture wounds and a deep wound on Hannah's face as well as a large lump. It could have been worse. A dog like that is not just 'telling off' another puppy, it is aggressive. If that was a child, it would have been a whole different story. I don't know if this was the first time for the dog or not, but if it wasn't, that dog should be muzzled. It is a public park, and these situations are sometimes unavoidable, things like this do happen and if the owner knows his dog is so aggressive, then i would suggest an offlead park with lots of dogs running around and one of them bound to do something unpredictable is not the best place for it. But I don't want to cast judgement on the man because i don't know if he was aware of this dog doing this in the past or not.

Anyway I used to love going on this forum and learning things but honestly this will be the last time i will be visiting it. I have seen how these threads can get so vicious and it's completely unacceptable.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Actually it's quite unhelpful and upsetting the way this thread has turned into a blame game 'it's the OP who was at fault' or it was the man at the edge of the park.

As I have explained above a few times, this is an unprecedented event. Hannah was turning around to come back to me. She did not 'get in the dogs face' but stopped in front of the dog.

I am not going to explain and justify it. OBVIOUSLY it was not a good thing that she ran over there but she doesn't do this often, in the last year this has not happened and she is usually very cautious.

Again, as I have explained, it happened much too quickly for me to be able to do anything about it. So it wasn't like I 'allowed' this to happen and therefore I am to blame.

Honestly I was so upset by this last night and just needed a little bit of understanding without everyone jumping to conclusions about what an irresponsible dog owner I am.

I did not judge the guy at the edge of the park, and no, i don't think he was as responsible as he could be. His dog did SERIOUS damage , there were puncture wounds and a deep wound on Hannah's face as well as a large lump. It could have been worse. A dog like that is not just 'telling off' another puppy, it is aggressive. If that was a child, it would have been a whole different story. I don't know if this was the first time for the dog or not, but if it wasn't, that dog should be muzzled. It is a public park, and these situations are sometimes unavoidable, things like this do happen and if the owner knows his dog is so aggressive, then i would suggest an offlead park with lots of dogs running around and one of them bound to do something unpredictable is not the best place for it. But I don't want to cast judgement on the man because i don't know if he was aware of this dog doing this in the past or not.

Anyway I used to love going on this forum and learning things but honestly this will be the last time i will be visiting it. I have seen how these threads can get so vicious and it's completely unacceptable.

just because a dog is dog aggressive it doesnt mean it is human aggressive so if a child ran up to the dog it is just as likely that it would not have reacted at all.

[Sheridan]

[sheridan - on leash doesn't mean "under control". If your dog attacks another dog then it isn't under effective control.

megan

The on lead dog was as under control as it could be! The off lead dog obviously wasn't under control as it was bounding over to the other dog. The on lead dog was minding its own business and would not have done anything if the off lead dog hadn't come over.

I don't dispute this. I was replying to Sheridan's post to dogmad. I think that, if you hava a reactive, aggresive dog, you should avoid taking it to the park when there are lots of people about.

As per my previous post, I agree that the OP should never have let her dog approach the other one.

I also don't think that the onlead dog was as under control as it could be. If the dog had displayed this behaviour previously, the owner should have put a muzzle on it?

Someone clearly has perfect, non-reactive dogs.

[Sheridan]

Actually it's quite unhelpful and upsetting the way this thread has turned into a blame game 'it's the OP who was at fault' or it was the man at the edge of the park.

As I have explained above a few times, this is an unprecedented event. Hannah was turning around to come back to me. She did not 'get in the dogs face' but stopped in front of the dog.

I am not going to explain and justify it. OBVIOUSLY it was not a good thing that she ran over there but she doesn't do this often, in the last year this has not happened and she is usually very cautious.

Again, as I have explained, it happened much too quickly for me to be able to do anything about it. So it wasn't like I 'allowed' this to happen and therefore I am to blame.

Honestly I was so upset by this last night and just needed a little bit of understanding without everyone jumping to conclusions about what an irresponsible dog owner I am.

I did not judge the guy at the edge of the park, and no, i don't think he was as responsible as he could be. His dog did SERIOUS damage , there were puncture wounds and a deep wound on Hannah's face as well as a large lump. It could have been worse. A dog like that is not just 'telling off' another puppy, it is aggressive. If that was a child, it would have been a whole different story. I don't know if this was the first time for the dog or not, but if it wasn't, that dog should be muzzled. It is a public park, and these situations are sometimes unavoidable, things like this do happen and if the owner knows his dog is so aggressive, then i would suggest an offlead park with lots of dogs running around and one of them bound to do something unpredictable is not the best place for it. But I don't want to cast judgement on the man because i don't know if he was aware of this dog doing this in the past or not.

Anyway I used to love going on this forum and learning things but honestly this will be the last time i will be visiting it. I have seen how these threads can get so vicious and it's completely unacceptable.

If all you wanted was sympathy then you should have stated this at the beginning.

[aussielover]

Someone clearly has perfect, non-reactive dogs.

I don't know about perfect, but lots of people do have non-reactive, well socialised dogs.

Muzzling the dog or not taking it to dog parks is the responsible thing to do if it is known to be aggressive. Howeve rthe OP also stated she didn't know whether it was the first time the dog had done this.

It is not helpful to the OP to tell her it was her fault for letting her dog run up to another, she said in the first post she knew it wasn't good for her dog to run up to a strange dog and was primarily asking whether her dog would be permanently affected by this incident and how to help the dog overcome any possible fear from this event.

[Sheridan]

Someone clearly has perfect, non-reactive dogs.

I don't know about perfect, but lots of people do have non-reactive, well socialised dogs.

Muzzling the dog or not taking it to dog parks is the responsible thing to do if it is known to be aggressive. Howeve rthe OP also stated she didn't know whether it was the first time the dog had done this.

It is not helpful to the OP to tell her it was her fault for letting her dog run up to another, she said in the first post she knew it wasn't good for her dog to run up to a strange dog and was primarily asking whether her dog would be permanently affected by this incident and how to help the dog overcome any possible fear from this event.

It was her fault. Perhaps reiterating this will ensure it doesn't happen again. I repeat, how many times have DOLers complained about off lead dogs running up to theirs? This is no different except the shoe is on the other foot.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Sheridan

[Aidan3]

Why does it always have to be someone's fault? She was in an off-leash area, mistakes happen.

[labsrule]

Why does it always have to be someone's fault? She was in an off-leash area, mistakes happen.

Of course it is someone's fault you should know there can never be any mistakes/accidents with dogs, particularly at offleash areas :D - these type of threads always deteriorate ;)

[malsrock]

Whatever you do, do not start avoiding socialisation with other dogs because that's when you will start to have a problem. So if you're not going to go to the dog park anymore socialise with dogs you know or only let your dog off at the park with trusted dogs.

Perhaps do some work with a trainer/behaviourist to help you manage situations when they occurs?

I disagree totally with stereotypical "socialisation" and the need for dogs to interact with others, IMHO they don't. They need to be aware of other dogs and learn to ignore them is best. When they learn the enjoyment of other dogs, is when they play up seeing one and misbehave on the leash. Friendly dogs want to play, reactive dogs want to fight and the way I like it, is a dog that doesn't care about other dogs and has no interest in them taking the sighting of other dogs in their stride.

Fiona

So you don't agree with letting dogs interact with their own kind?

No, I don't see anything valuable in doing so.

Fiona

[malsrock]

To me it's a balance of risk and too often, I think people who seriously cannot control an off leash dog think an unleashed area is a free for all and anything goes The problem is, people do take known reactive and DA dogs into those places for a run thinking they have a right to do so which is what worries me.

Or they take dogs that are rude, boisterous, completely out of control but "friendly". I had a bad experience a few years back with a huge labrador that systematically approached & rudely challenged every single dog that entered the dog park. The owner was convinced it was being friendly since it did not bark or growl while doing this. :D

Having said that, not all dog parks are created equal. I will take my dogs to offleash parks or beaches that are huge with very few dogs in, but I go to give the dog a run, not to socialise her. The little poky dog parks where you can't but help run into other dogs I avoid like the plague.

I am lucky in that I have access to (and have worked to create access to) farm land & bush areas where she can run offleash unimpeded & not encounter other dogs.

The rude, boisterous out of control "friendly" dogs are a danger to themselves as not very other dog appreciates that type of attention which is fair enough. Unfortunately, owners who allow their dogs to behave that way are often the off leash dogs who approach on leash dogs in that fashion and end up getting hurt. My old GSD boy was a cranky old sod who wouldn't tolorate that behaviour and would bite for sure. I often walked him muzzled, had to string him up a few times to save someone elses dog who should have been minding their own business as we were. If you allow a dog to approach others at will, one day the wrong dog will be approached with a nice old "thanks for coming" as the result IMHO, it's best for your own dog's safety and for everyone elses pleasure, not to allow that type of behaviour to develop.

Fiona ;)

[Bubitty]

Why does it always have to be someone's fault? She was in an off-leash area, mistakes happen.

Of course it is someone's fault you should know there can never be any mistakes/accidents with dogs, particularly at offleash areas - these type of threads always deteriorate :D

Its the evil Labs I tell ya! Someway, somewhere, sometime an evil bouncing lab managed to cause this incident, all the other incidents and global warming!!! ;)

[jaymatt]

So agree with you malsrock...

[malsrock]

Letting them play with dogs they don't live with is a nightmare if you want reliable show or obedience dogs. The last thing you need is them wanting to run off and play when they should be concentrating.

I really can't agree with this statement. I think they are intelligent enough to tell the difference beetween when they are required to "work" and when they are allowed "playtime" with other dogs.

Lots of working dogs, eg. guide dogs, assistance dogs, customs dogs are allowed to play with other dogs at dog parks, starting from a very young age and continuing throughout their working life.

When they are working they know to ignore other people and dogs.

I do think it is important for dog to have off lead interaction with other dogs, especially for those coming from only-dog households. Obviously, it is safer to only let them play with known dogs, but not always practical.

To the OP: I am sorry your dog was attacked, it is a very scary experience but it seems your dog has suffered no lasting damage. The fact she was back playing with other dogs very quickly is a good indication that she wasn't too traumatised.

Personally I wouldn't let my dog run up to an on-leash dog, as some dogs that are usually nice, become aggressive on leash. But sometimes things happen very quickly and we all make mistakes, we are only human after all.

Hi Aussielover,

Can you explain why you think it's important for off leash interactions with other dogs please I am looking to understand the benefits of doing so and what is achieved above a dog that isn't permitted such an experience or freedom.

Thanks

Fiona

[wuffles]

The prevailing opinion here seems to be that reactive, aggressive dogs are fine and normal, whereas friendly, sometimes rude dogs have horrible owners who never train them

But I agree with Aidan, no blame is needed here, dogs are dogs and accidents happen.

[wuffles]

Hi Aussielover,

Can you explain why you think it's important for off leash interactions with other dogs please I am looking to understand the benefits of doing so and what is achieved above a dog that isn't permitted such an experience or freedom.

Thanks

Fiona

Don't want to answer for her, but for me the reason is enrichment and enjoyment. The same reason I give them different and challenging toys, or teach them tricks, or take them to new places on the weekend.

[Staff'n'Toller]

I'm not making any presumptions about whose fault it was in the OP.

I just like to post this article when discussions such as these come up as I think it's a gem.

He Just Wants to Say Hi!