Traumatic Experience

[poochiemama]

I know this has been done millions of times, but I am so traumatised. We were having a lovely evening at the park with the pooches. Hannah, our one year old goldie, was playing with all the dogs and having a great time.

There was this man walking on the edge of the park with his dog on the leash and hannah went bounding up to the dog but just stopped so she could sniff him. I had this terrible feeling about the whole situation so i called her to come back which she was about to do when the dog just latched on to her face/neck area, growling aggressively and wouldn't let go. His owner freaked out and was trying to pull his dog with his leash off hannah and this went on for what felt like ages, and at one stage, the owner was hanging the dog in the air by the leash and hannah was still hooked on to the dogs jaw. I ran over and managed to pull the dog off her and the owner was very apologetic and mortified.

I tried not to make a big deal of it even though my heart was pounding and i just let hannah play with the other dogs which she did for a little while before we went home. when we got home i looked closely at her face and there is a bite mark there, bleeding. I applied some antiseptic and just pampered her before feeding her.

I just really worry with these situations, especially because she is so young , that she doesn't grow up to have fear aggression.

I know that people say dogs get over it and it is us owners who are more traumatised than the dogs, but just wondered if any one had any experiences like this and how their dogs turned out? Also what if this happens again, what is the best way of separating the dogs?

[Kavik]

There is one thing you can do that is well within your control and will reduce the chances of this happening again.

If someone is walking on the edge of the park with their dog on lead, they may not want to meet your dog. Maybe they are training, want some peace, or their dog may not like other dogs running up to their face or their dog may be aggressive towards other dogs.

So you could avoid this happening again if you do not let your dog go bounding up to onlead dogs that are far away. It is safer to recall your dog, and ask if it is OK for your dogs to meet first.

[poochiemama]

Thanks Kavik, you're absolutely right and 99% of the time we do this and don't let them go up to dogs on the edge of the park, and usually they are more cautious, but this time she ran up before i could stop her and she was about to turn back to me when he went for her. It just happened so quickly.

[malsrock]

I am not purposely being offensive to anyone but considering these type of situations come up regularly the simple answer to these scenarios is "don't do it". Don't take your dog to off leash dog parks etc to mingle with strange dogs because it's an accident waiting to happen. We can't control or know how other peoples dogs may behave and there is always the chance of people owning reactive dogs which they can't control or can't be bothered to control being there also that can and will attack your dog. It's bad enough counteracting off leash dogs in leashed areas on the street and paths, but letting your dog loose amoungst strange dogs to play gives me shivers up my spine just thinking about the risks involved in these practices.

Just my honest thoughts on the matter in general

Fiona

[poochiemama]

To be honest malrock, today I thought we should stop going to the offleash park and just do onleash walks instead.

But it just gives them so much enjoyment, I can't bring myself to take that away from them. There is risk in most things, and this is something they loooove. But there are so many horror stories of dog parks, and today's scare really made me think twice.

It actually happened to my lab as well when he was six months old, he just came in to this fenced dog park and as he got through the gate this dog ran up to him and attacked him, completely unprovoked.

It does make you think twice. But by the same token, as you say, even on a walk around the block, there might still be a loose dog who might attack your dog. You can't win either way.

In fact, this park is actually a really great one, we've been coming here for months and all the dogs are very friendly. but it just takes that one dog..

It's like someone posted recently about brighton dog beach - we've been there and had a blast and I know heaps of people who take their dogs there and the dogs love it more than anything. But now that this dog has been attacked there, does it mean we should stop going? What is left to do with our dogs that is really safe anymore?

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

The man with the vicious dog should not be in there, even if he is on the edge of the park!!! Why would you even tempt fate by doing this? He should also have his dog muzzled at all times.

[Brennan's Mum]

I'm sorry for your experience My dog was attacked when she was 4months old and we were walking on lead around our neighbourhood. The offending dogs were dogs which had escaped their yard.

I don't like dog parks for the simple fact that you can not control who goes there and their dog.

Do you have any friends with dogs you could arrange some play dates with? I take my girl to play with my friends 2 Belgian Tervuerens and they have a blast

Or you could always check out the DOL meet ups ;)

My friend and I schedule a play date usually for once a week. It is also great fun for us getting to chat whilst we watch the dogs

As for walking-- I just take my girl walking on our own.

[sas]

Whatever you do, do not start avoiding socialisation with other dogs because that's when you will start to have a problem. So if you're not going to go to the dog park anymore socialise with dogs you know or only let your dog off at the park with trusted dogs.

Perhaps do some work with a trainer/behaviourist to help you manage situations when they occurs?

Edited September 2, 2010 by sas

[poochiemama]

Thanks Brennan's mum; it's a great suggestion to take them for play dates but we don't have any friends with dogs closeby. I'm going to have a chat with my husband and brainstorm about what we should do.

It used to give me so much peace going to the park - after a tough day at work, just hanging out and watching the dogs play. It's the best stress relief in the world when it goes well.

But these experiences have really ruined it for me. Now when i go, i'm always tense because i know the potential dangers and it worries me.

It's amazing how your heart just stops when these things happen.

It could have been worse, but it was pretty bad regardless and on closer inspection she has a bad wound on her face and a massive lump on the side of her neck now.

[malsrock]

To be honest malrock, today I thought we should stop going to the offleash park and just do onleash walks instead.

But it just gives them so much enjoyment, I can't bring myself to take that away from them. There is risk in most things, and this is something they loooove. But there are so many horror stories of dog parks, and today's scare really made me think twice.

It actually happened to my lab as well when he was six months old, he just came in to this fenced dog park and as he got through the gate this dog ran up to him and attacked him, completely unprovoked.

It does make you think twice. But by the same token, as you say, even on a walk around the block, there might still be a loose dog who might attack your dog. You can't win either way.

In fact, this park is actually a really great one, we've been coming here for months and all the dogs are very friendly. but it just takes that one dog..

It's like someone posted recently about brighton dog beach - we've been there and had a blast and I know heaps of people who take their dogs there and the dogs love it more than anything. But now that this dog has been attacked there, does it mean we should stop going? What is left to do with our dogs that is really safe anymore?

Personally, I have had working breeds for years with a keen interest in obedience training, so I don't want my dogs enjoying other dogs too much which affects their focus upon me. My dogs can have reactive tendancies and I don't trust them to run free and play nicely with strange dogs and wouldn't subject anyone elses dog to bad manners that mine may display with the wrong stimulus. Knowing this, I wouldn't take my dogs anywhere near unleashed areas where dogs are free to interact with them either just in case things got nasty with the wrong dog at the wrong time.

To me it's a balance of risk and too often, I think people who seriously cannot control an off leash dog think an unleashed area is a free for all and anything goes The problem is, people do take known reactive and DA dogs into those places for a run thinking they have a right to do so which is what worries me. My dogs go nuts when you mention WALK or see a leash and we have a lovely time which I am sure they enjoy the outing and exercise just as much as dogs who visit dog parks, and I enjoy the risk reductions too.

Fiona

[malsrock]

I'm sorry for your experience My dog was attacked when she was 4months old and we were walking on lead around our neighbourhood. The offending dogs were dogs which had escaped their yard.

I don't like dog parks for the simple fact that you can not control who goes there and their dog.

Do you have any friends with dogs you could arrange some play dates with? I take my girl to play with my friends 2 Belgian Tervuerens and they have a blast ;)

Or you could always check out the DOL meet ups ;)

My friend and I schedule a play date usually for once a week. It is also great fun for us getting to chat whilst we watch the dogs

As for walking-- I just take my girl walking on our own.

I agree, great advice

[Fleuri]

There is one thing you can do that is well within your control and will reduce the chances of this happening again.

If someone is walking on the edge of the park with their dog on lead, they may not want to meet your dog. Maybe they are training, want some peace, or their dog may not like other dogs running up to their face or their dog may be aggressive towards other dogs.

So you could avoid this happening again if you do not let your dog go bounding up to onlead dogs that are far away. It is safer to recall your dog, and ask if it is OK for your dogs to meet first.

I agree

[spottychick]

poochiemama

I would be cautious too after that experience. I was walking my dogs down my own street and a dog rushed out from a yard and latched onto my girl once. I never went in that direction with the dogs again. I am in the habit now of checking streets without the dogs if I plan on walking down them and sussing out the dog situation. So it's not just parks these kinds of things can happen in.

I guess you can't protect them against every eventuality but you can take precautions.

As for helping her stay cool about other dogs, it's not too hard especially with a younger dog. Just try not to let your nerves communicate to your dog when another dog is around.

Walking your dog when no other dogs are around is a good idea but I agree you need to find other dogs for yours to socialise with. I make friends with other dog owners and find out what their dogs are like whenever I move somewhere new. I've only been in this town a couple of months or so and we already have several doggy friends that my dogs socialise with and go for walks with.

I don't know what else you can do. Maybe enrol in a dog obedience class so she gets to be around dogs in a more controlled environment. Or put up ads looking for dog owners with sociable dogs to have get togethers with.

Hopefully, altho it was horrible and scarey, this experience might make her more wary of rushing up to other dogs in the future so I guess that might be a positive, as long as it hasn't made her wary of all dogs.

Wish you were in Tassie - I'd be happy to set up play dates with my two friendly dalmatians.

[malsrock]

Whatever you do, do not start avoiding socialisation with other dogs because that's when you will start to have a problem. So if you're not going to go to the dog park anymore socialise with dogs you know or only let your dog off at the park with trusted dogs.

Perhaps do some work with a trainer/behaviourist to help you manage situations when they occurs?

I disagree totally with stereotypical "socialisation" and the need for dogs to interact with others, IMHO they don't. They need to be aware of other dogs and learn to ignore them is best. When they learn the enjoyment of other dogs, is when they play up seeing one and misbehave on the leash. Friendly dogs want to play, reactive dogs want to fight and the way I like it, is a dog that doesn't care about other dogs and has no interest in them taking the sighting of other dogs in their stride.

Fiona

[Golden Rules]

In fact, this park is actually a really great one, we've been coming here for months and all the dogs are very friendly. but it just takes that one dog..

It's a bit like driving on the road - you don't know what other drivers will do but you just have to take the risk if you want to lead a normal life.

Thanks Brennan's mum; it's a great suggestion to take them for play dates but we don't have any friends with dogs closeby. I'm going to have a chat with my husband and brainstorm about what we should do.

It used to give me so much peace going to the park - after a tough day at work, just hanging out and watching the dogs play. It's the best stress relief in the world when it goes well.

But these experiences have really ruined it for me. Now when i go, i'm always tense because i know the potential dangers and it worries me.

It's amazing how your heart just stops when these things happen.

It could have been worse, but it was pretty bad regardless and on closer inspection she has a bad wound on her face and a massive lump on the side of her neck now.

Well if you decide to go back to the park, you need to get rid of that tenseness so your dog knows you are relaxed.

Honestly, you just have to watch your dog constantly when at the park, while also being aware of your surroundings so that if you notice another dog approaching - be it a strange dog, or a known aggressive dog - so that you can call your dog back.

Vigilance practiced is not a chore, it soon becomes habit and it will make attending the dog park so much more enjoyable.

The socialisation is so important so I hope you choose to go back but just with the intention of being more vigilant.

[poochiemama]

Thanks guys...

I am in two minds about the dog park thing...

I know there are some dog owners who have a coffee and chat while the dogs are running around, not knowing where the dogs are, but we are actually so obsessed with our dogs that we are always looking out at what they are doing and where they are and often we intervene very early if there is any evidence that the play is getting too rough or leave the park at the first sign of trouble. But this was so sudden and unpredictable.

In fact, in a way, we were lucky because the owner of the dog was actually semi-responsible; he had him on a leash, he really stepped in to separate them, he was absolutely mortified and apologised a million times. I said 'it's ok, she's fine' (even though i was horrified) and he said 'no , this is not ok. i'm so sorry'. But not all owners are like this.

The good thing is, she immediately went back to playing and I just let her do that so that she doesn't know something is wrong.

spottychick, real shame you are not in victoria as i love dallies.

I agree in some ways Fiona about the concept of socialisation - some dogs are 'over' socialised and my dogs are guilty of this - they love playing with other dogs and they get so excited on the leash if they see another dog. They are getting better but i don't know if they'll get to the point of 'ignoring' other dogs.

[dee lee]

What Golden Rules said.

If you don't know a dog, keep yours away from it until you can be sure it's safe.

I'm sorry you had that experience but it is a good reminder to be vigilant.

I can understand the point Malsrock is making & agree with it, though to a lesser degree.

I believe in keeping walking and not allowing the usual free for all play (while the owners chat), that you see so often at offlead parks. I made that mistake with a previous dog and regretted it.

I think it's important that the dog feels it must stay with you & isn't more interested in the other dogs.

My current dog luckily feels the same way, which does make it easier!

Even so, she has been attacked by an offlead aggressive dog that approached her. She was unhurt and, after initial sookiness, suffered no lasting effects.

I still returned to the park but am even more careful about keeping far away from unknown dogs.

[dancinbcs]

Thanks guys...

I am in two minds about the dog park thing...

I know there are some dog owners who have a coffee and chat while the dogs are running around, not knowing where the dogs are, but we are actually so obsessed with our dogs that we are always looking out at what they are doing and where they are and often we intervene very early if there is any evidence that the play is getting too rough or leave the park at the first sign of trouble. But this was so sudden and unpredictable.

In fact, in a way, we were lucky becausethe owner of the dog was actually semi-responsible ; he had him on a leash, he really stepped in to separate them, he was absolutely mortified and apologised a million times. I said 'it's ok, she's fine' (even though i was horrified) and he said 'no , this is not ok. i'm so sorry'. But not all owners are like this.

The good thing is, she immediately went back to playing and I just let her do that so that she doesn't know something is wrong.

spottychick, real shame you are not in victoria as i love dallies.

I agree in some ways Fiona about the concept of socialisation - some dogs are 'over' socialised and my dogs are guilty of this - they love playing with other dogs and they get so excited on the leash if they see another dog. They are getting better but i don't know if they'll get to the point of 'ignoring' other dogs.

I'm sorry your dog was hurt but the owner of the other dog wasn't semi-responsible, he was completely responsible walking along with his dog on a lead at the edge of the park, minding their own business. He wasn't at fault at all, I'm afraid you were for letting your dog run up to his without an invitation. Many otherwise friendly dogs will guard their owners from strange dogs and quite a few have no tolerance for strange dogs getting in their face. They don't go looking for trouble so they are not dog aggressive, they are just dogs being dogs.

No off lead dog should ever be allowed to run up to a strange on lead dog, ever, no matter where you are. It is just asking for trouble and is completely unfair to expect all dogs to welcome the attention of strange dogs.

[malsrock]

Thanks guys...

I am in two minds about the dog park thing...

I know there are some dog owners who have a coffee and chat while the dogs are running around, not knowing where the dogs are, but we are actually so obsessed with our dogs that we are always looking out at what they are doing and where they are and often we intervene very early if there is any evidence that the play is getting too rough or leave the park at the first sign of trouble. But this was so sudden and unpredictable.

In fact, in a way, we were lucky because the owner of the dog was actually semi-responsible; he had him on a leash, he really stepped in to separate them, he was absolutely mortified and apologised a million times. I said 'it's ok, she's fine' (even though i was horrified) and he said 'no , this is not ok. i'm so sorry'. But not all owners are like this.

The good thing is, she immediately went back to playing and I just let her do that so that she doesn't know something is wrong.

spottychick, real shame you are not in victoria as i love dallies.

I agree in some ways Fiona about the concept of socialisation - some dogs are 'over' socialised and my dogs are guilty of this - they love playing with other dogs and they get so excited on the leash if they see another dog. They are getting better but i don't know if they'll get to the point of 'ignoring' other dogs.

Hi Poochiemama,

A lot of people really get into me over my thoughts on socialisation and tell me I am totally WRONG, but sometimes socialisation done incorrectly creates DA dogs I have found. In theory it's good, but some puppy classes I have seen, there are dominant puppies belting up submissive one's etc and although it looks like harmless fun, not all the puppies are happy and are beginning to act defensively to some degree. Quite a few people have done all the socialising routines to the letter, and suddenly their dog becomes reactive out of blue and they are left scratching their head why it happened. There is some merit in socialising, but I don't see it as important as many people do.

My Malinios is 12 months old and the only dog he runs with is my 8 year old GSD and is the only dog apart from his litter mates he has ever interacted with. He wanted to chase other dogs and play probably bite them too and bounce around like an idiot on the end of the leash when younger seeing them, but I have almost got him to the point where he ignors them now which is good for handler control. Providing other people's dogs are calm, he just walks past with a glance and seeing another dog is not an issue for him. My GSD is the same and only had my old boy as his doggy friend growing up and he just has no interest in dogs at all to create distractions for him to make training and focus difficult.

A lot of the well socialised dogs you see are complete nut cases at the sight of other dogs totally out of control until they get their doggy fix and the owners can't do a thing with them with such a high distraction. I guess too, my dog's are strong dogs if they go off, pull and lunge in distraction, they pull you off your feet with a few scars to prove that , but other dogs being an instinctive major distraction especially if they are conditioned to enjoy their company, is a huge training disadvantage to create handler focus and break them of the habit. So, establishing the point where they ignor other dogs competely I have found takes away the necessity to try and break the bad habits associated with over socialised excitable behaviour which is pain in the butt to fix

Fiona ;)

[dancinbcs]

Thanks guys...

I am in two minds about the dog park thing...

I know there are some dog owners who have a coffee and chat while the dogs are running around, not knowing where the dogs are, but we are actually so obsessed with our dogs that we are always looking out at what they are doing and where they are and often we intervene very early if there is any evidence that the play is getting too rough or leave the park at the first sign of trouble. But this was so sudden and unpredictable.

In fact, in a way, we were lucky because the owner of the dog was actually semi-responsible; he had him on a leash, he really stepped in to separate them, he was absolutely mortified and apologised a million times. I said 'it's ok, she's fine' (even though i was horrified) and he said 'no , this is not ok. i'm so sorry'. But not all owners are like this.

The good thing is, she immediately went back to playing and I just let her do that so that she doesn't know something is wrong.

spottychick, real shame you are not in victoria as i love dallies.

I agree in some ways Fiona about the concept of socialisation - some dogs are 'over' socialised and my dogs are guilty of this - they love playing with other dogs and they get so excited on the leash if they see another dog. They are getting better but i don't know if they'll get to the point of 'ignoring' other dogs.

Hi Poochiemama,

A lot of people really get into me over my thoughts on socialisation and tell me I am totally WRONG, but sometimes socialisation done incorrectly creates DA dogs I have found. In theory it's good, but some puppy classes I have seen, there are dominant puppies belting up submissive one's etc and although it looks like harmless fun, not all the puppies are happy and are beginning to act defensively to some degree. Quite a few people have done all the socialising routines to the letter, and suddenly their dog becomes reactive out of blue and they are left scratching their head why it happened. ;) There is some merit in socialising, but I don't see it as important as many people do.

My Malinios is 12 months old and the only dog he runs with is my 8 year old GSD and is the only dog apart from his litter mates he has ever interacted with. He wanted to chase other dogs and play probably bite them too and bounce around like an idiot on the end of the leash when younger seeing them, but I have almost got him to the point where he ignors them now which is good for handler control. Providing other people's dogs are calm, he just walks past with a glance and seeing another dog is not an issue for him. My GSD is the same and only had my old boy as his doggy friend growing up and he just has no interest in dogs at all to create distractions for him to make training and focus difficult.

A lot of the well socialised dogs you see are complete nut cases at the sight of other dogs totally out of control until they get their doggy fix and the owners can't do a thing with them with such a high distraction. I guess too, my dog's are strong dogs if they go off, pull and lunge in distraction, they pull you off your feet with a few scars to prove that ;) , but other dogs being an instinctive major distraction especially if they are conditioned to enjoy their company, is a huge training disadvantage to create handler focus and break them of the habit. So, establishing the point where they ignor other dogs competely I have found takes away the necessity to try and break the bad habits associated with over socialised excitable behaviour which is pain in the butt to fix

Fiona

Very well explained

My dogs have always had all the socialisation they need meeting other on lead dogs at shows and obedience training but they rarely "play" with other dogs not owned by me. The puppy pre-school I use concentrates on teaching puppies to ignore other dogs and concentrate on their owner. I am happy for them to socialise on lead with another friendly dog so long as they bring their attention back to me immediately when asked. Letting them play with dogs they don't live with is a nightmare if you want reliable show or obedience dogs. The last thing you need is them wanting to run off and play when they should be concentrating.