Illaroo Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Hi all, this is my first post on DOL, though I have been lurking for quite awhile. I have searched for this information but can't seem to find it. I have been given a new member of the family, a stafford x bull arab/ amstaff pup. He's getting here in the next day or so. He's apparently 8 - 9 weeks old but I would put my money on closer to 6 weeks. Diet atm (now as mother dog & owner have both started refusing to feed) is pal puppy milk only. I don't have the confidence to design an appropriate full raw / natural diet for a puppy - too scared I'll miss something important while he's developing - so my plan is feed 1/2 & 1/2 good quality dry, and raw. My question is: is it as simple as feeding half qty of the manufacturer's recommendations on the dry, and then halving the general raw recommendation? Ie, if Nutro as a complete feed should be say 150g / day, and raw (going of 10% current weight, as I can't begin to estimate adult weight) should be say 120g/ day, is it ok to go 75g dry food and 60g raw meaty bones? If I were talking about an adult dog I'd be happy to run with dog too fat = feed less, dog too thin = feed more - but I don't want to trial and error with a baby. Also - other than soaking the dry in, if not pal puppy milk, some other lactose free milk, is there anything else I should be aware of re transitioning? There isn't alot to transition FROM, if that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquiboss&scoop Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Wow not a good start for the new baby , 50 / 50 should be fine for the pup to start with I would look at a 70 - 30 mix with the nutro being the higher of the 2 with amount as much as it can eat in about 10 mins if you think it may have been under fed before it comes home then try just chicken or chicken and rice in small amounts often for the first week ( about 5 meals a day ) then after worms are all gone and fleas are gone try introducing the nutro / raw mix. I wish you the best of luck with this one , pup to vet as soon as you can , if you think pup may not be getting fed , and you must have THIS pup go get it now why wait starvation with a young pup is a horrible sight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Poor puppy - lucky for him he will be coming to a nurturing home I have not much advice- only to start him on a GOOD puppy food - with some bones,and perhaps leave the raw until later? Starting him on a good puppy food ensures he is getting all his nutrition in the right balance - guess his mum was lacking in decent food as well- so he will benefit from all the right stuff. There are others on here much better qualified than I to give sound advice. :D Enjoy your boy - make sure the vet is your first stop - just to check him out .... and remember puppies do not read labels- so quantities may need to be very flexible ! Oh- and we need photos ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 OMG i hope he gets to you soon, Pal puppy milk alone is not enough for a puppy I would start with 1/2 dry 1/2 "wet" like cans or bones, I agree about leaving the raw for a bit till he settles in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illaroo Posted September 1, 2010 Author Share Posted September 1, 2010 thanks guys for the advice. Vet def high up the to do list. and you must have THIS pup go get it now why wait starvation with a young pup is a horrible sight I don't disagree - but to answer "why wait" - it is to make sure that I am capable of doing the right thing, and understand what the right thing is - versus rushing in on emotion and then not having the knowledge (let alone the puppy food on hand!!!) to give him what he needs. Sorry if that came across defensive Pics and updates will come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 illaroo, i completely understand where you're coming from BUT even if you are unsure yourself as to how to effectively help this pup, the longer it resides in its current environment will only prolong its likely discomfort --- you, at least, have the pup's best interests in mind! the longer it stays where it is the harder it will be for the pup to recover... cross those other bridges when and if you ever need later... good luck and props to you for showing the initiative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 k, sorry if i came across a bit strong there --- didn't mean to sound so frantic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Do you really want to take on this poorly reared puppy. The consequences may be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacquiboss&scoop Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Pics will be drooled over , Pup will need food, worming deflea and vacc , toys ohh I love shopping for puppies, dont get to do this around here that much as we limit to three dogs at any one time, If you can offer good food , a warm safe place to sleep and play , training , time and social for pup you should be fine , The vet can reassure you on what special health needs he may have to start with when you see them , and if you are happy with the pot luck on size and end temp ( training does help but some traits are inherited ) then by all means go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 It depends on his condition and how old he really is, as to the amount that you'd feed. Going by the breed mix and if he's in a reasonable condition then maybe half a cup of dry to start with, four times a day. Three meals will be sufficient if he's in good condition and healthy. You'll really need to wing it, feed a little bit and frequently so as not to upset his stomach. You can't go wrong with chicken wings and chicken necks, again it would depend on the size and condition of the pup. I'd introduce a raw neck or one wing from day one, see how the pup tolerates them and then make a raw meal a day of 2-4 wings and 3-8 necks, depending on their size too. There's no hard and fast rules for pups, with the exception of avoiding meat/mince that does not contain bone, as this stuffs up the calcium and phosphorus intake. There's no need to be afraid of feeding raw and stuffing it up. Once your pup is settled and eating without stomach upset you can introduce things like, lamb flap & necks ( whole neck not the rosettes ), roo tail, chicken carcass, wings, necks, turkey wings and necks, rabbit ( cut into 1/4's when small, whole rabbit when your dog is bigger ), duck, whole fish.. the list is endless. Probably the most important thing to do straight away is to vaccinate and also worm the pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 It depends on his condition and how old he really is, as to the amount that you'd feed. Going by the breed mix and if he's in a reasonable condition then maybe half a cup of dry to start with, four times a day. Three meals will be sufficient if he's in good condition and healthy.You'll really need to wing it, feed a little bit and frequently so as not to upset his stomach. You can't go wrong with chicken wings and chicken necks, again it would depend on the size and condition of the pup. I'd introduce a raw neck or one wing from day one, see how the pup tolerates them and then make a raw meal a day of 2-4 wings and 3-8 necks, depending on their size too. There's no hard and fast rules for pups, with the exception of avoiding meat/mince that does not contain bone, as this stuffs up the calcium and phosphorus intake. There's no need to be afraid of feeding raw and stuffing it up. Once your pup is settled and eating without stomach upset you can introduce things like, lamb flap & necks ( whole neck not the rosettes ), roo tail, chicken carcass, wings, necks, turkey wings and necks, rabbit ( cut into 1/4's when small, whole rabbit when your dog is bigger ), duck, whole fish.. the list is endless. Probably the most important thing to do straight away is to vaccinate and also worm the pup. What RSG said. Add commencing obedience training and microchipping the pup as a Bull Arab to your "to do" list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 I'd leave the raw for a bit and start him on a good quality puppy food (Nutro is fine), 4 small meals per day then gradually introduce raw after a few weeks, perhaps starting with some minced chicken frames if thats what you want to do. If the puppy has never been on anything besides Pal puppy milk you don't want to overload his system with too much too soon. I agree with oakway though. Do you really want to take this puppy? Are you prepared to deal with possible health and temperament issues if they arise and deal with them for the next 10+ years? If you really feel that you need/want to take him do it now. Trip to the local pet suplies store and vet - bowl, bed, bag of food, wormers, flea treatment, book an appointment for vaccs and health check and you're set for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 I would get a very good quality food to prepare for the pup's arrival, but wait and see what condition it is in before worrying too much about adding raw. Pup might have some growth issues to sort out first, which require a perfect balance of calcium/phosphorus. Once you know what you're dealing with, then you can look more into varying the diet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karly101 Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 I wouldn't add raw until this puppy is very settled in as if in a poor condition the raw might just be enough to tip the poor little guy over.. raw isn't normally a problem for healthy puppies but from your description your puppy will probably need a bit of TLC to get to that stage. A good dry puppy food (maybe not the really rich formulas) and yes you can soak it in a little bit of milk initially (lactose free milk is fine it doesn't have to be puppy milk). If the stomach isn't handling that I would see the vet for canned I/d (or royal canin equivalent) ... normally cooked chicken and rice is sufficient but in a growing pup I think the I/d is a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Since when has dry been more easily digestable than raw ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 (edited) Hopefully this pup is going to be ok. I too would be getting it out of it's home asap. I wouldn't be worried about microchipping until a vet gives the okay, esp with the rearing this one has had. My first stop however would be the vets. You can always get food etc at the vets if need be, but by going there first, they can tell you whether you are about to waste a lot of money and cause yourself a lot of heartache, or if everything should be fine. Everytime an is introduced to my household from a bad situation, a vet check is my first thought. You don't want to get attached to an animal if there is something seriously not right with it. I've seen time and time again at work, people getting dogs and cats from bad situations that have either had medical conditions or bad behavioural issues that the new owners couldn't cope with no matter how much love and attention they gave. But hopefully that won't be a problem with this young one I'd leave the raw food for now and focus mainly on the dry food, to try and get his poor little system into shape first. I'd be specifically looking for a high quality food in this case as he has had a very tough upbringing (I don't know much about Nutro ) Just make sure you totally understand exactly what you are getting yourself into. I have at times put myself into silly situations as I am a 'sook' (my bosses words, not mine lol) and try to do too much. I'm now a little more cautious after suffering much heartbreak with a few young animals (foals and calves mainly, but the occassionaly puppy at work) that sadly crossed the after I got very attached, very quickly. It's a mistake I hope to never make again Karly - why would the I/d be better for this pup? Maybe to start of with it would be useable, but it doesn't have the right amount of nutrients etc that a growing pup needs. I/d is specifically for dogs that need a bland diet (ie dogs susceptible to pancreatitis) Edited September 3, 2010 by Everythings Shiny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 illaroo, any updates on this forlorn lil pup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illaroo Posted September 3, 2010 Author Share Posted September 3, 2010 Well I'm awake at nearly 2am cause I'm feeling the joy of a baby not sleeping thru the night ;) Tonight at least he's only cried when he genuinely needs to go to the toilet... He's doing well, thanks to all on the diet advice - currently 70:30 nutro to chicken necks. Now the wormer's kicked in (OMG that was unbelievable) he's in much better shape. Vets on Monday, there's a delta chick there that runs puppy preschool so I'll ask about all that too. It's been 8 years since I did the puppy thing so every little bit helps. If my camera and my pooter would only play nicely I could do the piccies - including the reluctant "aunty" letting him sleep with her in front of the fire... he's allowed to suck on her tail but if he goes looking for milk it's a no-no . Once I master the technology I'll start a thread somewhere out of the nutrition forum. Side note - his 2 sisters - who are staying with their mum - are on solids (and a worming program) there too now cheers to all for helping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karly101 Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Glad he's doing well Everythings Shiny- I/d is fine for puppies temporarily ... I wasn't mentioning it as a long term thing but as a just in a case of needing a bland diet (vomiting/diarrhea) ...I think it is better for puppies than just chicken and rice. And yes raw is digestible but I would worry if pups immune system is not good + all the environmental changes that they may be susceptible to bacteria that a healthy puppy wouldn't have issues with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruffy n Flea Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 i'm sooo happy to hear that from you illaroo good luck --- only good things now, for you and the pup! and great news about his siblings; excellent job all round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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