Making Obedience Training Fun

[wuffles]

Ok, I know I need to keep obedience training fun which I feel like I'm doing most of the time, but Ava is not enjoying heeling at the moment so I thought I'd ask for ideas for some fun activities or games to help us! I'm mainly interested in heeling but would love to try ANY fun games really!

She loved heeling as a puppy but as she's gotten older (she's now 9 months) she is losing focus easily and showing displacement behaviours like sniffing when I ask her to heel so I need to change the way I'm doing things! If I am doing some loose leash walking with her (not expected to heel, just not pull) she won't listen, unless I call her to me and give her a command like sit/down/stand which she is very willing and happy to do. Her focus in all other exercises is excellent.

One of the games she does like is heeling in a circle and me throwing the reward away, sending her to get it then calling her back. I also do hind end awareness with her using a phone book which she does very enthusiastically. Can I expand on these exercises to translate them better to actual heeling patterns?

[corvus]

Erik doesn't much like heeling, either. He likes the rear end awareness stuff, though. He's more enthusiastic about heeling if he gets to pivot and I was teaching him to heel backwards as well. Then we went on to agility circle work instead. He likes that because he's allowed to jump up to get his treat when I tell him to. Erik doesn't much like any activity that doesn't involve running, jumping, or some serious problem solving.

[huski]

For me it's not about the act of heeling itself, but the dog's motivation and their desire for the reward. I also find my dog loses interest if I become too predictable.

What kind of training do you do? Do you train at a club? What do you use to motivate your dog - food/toy/praise etc?

Edited August 29, 2010 by huski

[Tapua]

Hi Wuffle

I am not clear which breed you have but this is just my experience. I have owned and trained working dogs and currently Labradors and this is my esperience of that ages particularly with bitches.

1: Regardless of being neutered or entire Ive found most bitches go a bit vague or hypersensitive between 6 and 12 months. Its like my confident puppy has dissapeared - everything I taught them has been erased from memory. Not easily explained with being neutered or not. I am only guessing as to why.

2: I learnt I had to chill and stop trying to make the pup perform for me. I realised my expectation to get them to perform in any formal obedience like behaviour counter-productive. This also applied to the show ring and pushing during this timhas turned some potentially great show dogs into jelly. I somehow managed to communicate my dissapointment and frustration. It put the pup off.

3: Instead for a few months I socialised and generalised the commands - I didnt go to any training classes for a few months - I re-created an association with the pup and me where she didnt have to perform to get rewarded. And that included play learning. Other than general play I ignored her. She was just part of and belong to the gang. Within a few months she was asking me to do something constructive with her.

4: Then in small and short session - no longer than 5 minutes at a time re-created the healing/obedience style of training by this stage she was nearly 12 months and ready to learn again.

I am not sure why this happens but I think the pup is trying to question what you are on about and too much attention creates stress. I also think she was trying to fit in with the gang in the yrd and want clear where she fitted in. I also think my leadership was coming across as too threatening. So I just back off - what she learnt as a youngster will come back I just had to be patient.

I hope a behaviouralist can explain why this happens better than me but thats my take on the 6-12 month maturing process.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Tapua

[wuffles]

For me it's not about the act of heeling itself, but the dog's motivation and their desire for the reward. I also find my dog loses interest if I become too predictable.

What kind of training do you do? Do you train at a club? What do you use to motivate your dog - food/toy/praise etc?

We do train at a club which does the typical hour-long lessons using positive methods BUT we only do short bursts of heeling and loose leash walking in class. She does all the other exercises with enthusiasm, no issues with stays, recalls. She has good focus in all these exercises, even when we are standing listening to the instructor. I do lots of tricks between exercises to keep her interested.

As for training at home, I do short sessions with her mixed with play, either running around the backyard or play with toys. I use food rewards and praise. She can be a bit funny with rewards while we are training outside the house, she seems to get in "work" mode and won't have a bar of pats, or toys. I have suspected that I need to build her drive for the rewards but just don't know how to go about it, so any suggestions gratefully received! She is quite food motivated.

She loves to run and jump and be rough, so when training at the local oval, I try to do one or two exercises then release her for a run and a play with me. She refocuses quickly... unless I want her to heel

[wuffles]

corvus, sounds like Ava and Erik have common views of the world

Tapua, thanks for your comments. Ava is an Australian Shepherd. She actually seems to thrive on training and gets very excited if I get the treat bag out or even look like I might give her a command! For example, at the local oval when I take her off the leash she usually just stares at me waiting to do something. OH won't take her to the oval because he says "she just hangs around my legs and won't leave me alone" I do appreciate that her age may have something to do with it, though, and I am in no hurry to trial her or anything like that.

EFS

Edited August 29, 2010 by wuffles

[The Spotted Devil]

My Dalmatian's brain went missing at 9 months of age I just had to push through it....it started to come back at 18 months (thank goodness!) Find heel games are fun - in between lots of tugging or chasing toys/food (2 food game). Make sure you are rewarding the exact behaviour you are after - be very specific about your criteria even if you get 2 steps of heeling. Sometimes it helps to take a break and try some shaping

Edited August 29, 2010 by The Spotted Devil

[Zug Zug]

Try throwing the food rewards sometimes, so your dog has to chase it to get the reward.

It works a treat with my dog - it seems to combine the food and prey drive perfectly, and she just doubles her excitement as soon as I start doing it.

Has to be a fairly visible kind of treat - fritz or cheese or whatever.

Also keep it quick and end the training session early, while you're dog is still having fun. Less is more.

[corvus]

She can be a bit funny with rewards while we are training outside the house, she seems to get in "work" mode and won't have a bar of pats, or toys. I have suspected that I need to build her drive for the rewards but just don't know how to go about it, so any suggestions gratefully received! She is quite food motivated.

Hmmm...... That sounds a bit like Erik and his proactive "rules" thing. I think that he uses just one or two cues to tell him what activity we are doing and won't be convinced otherwise. For example, he decided that agility training was all about working for food and once he'd decided that he refused to take any other reward. I was slow to pick it up and let it establish and start to spread to other training and now have my work cut out for me trying to undo it. Life with Erik sometimes seems like running on the spot just to keep from flying backwards. I have learnt to be very aware of the cues he may be picking up on so I can scramble them if he's getting ahead of me and forming a routine I don't want. It's hard work. He forms those routines so fast. I have learnt to be very careful about doing the same thing in the same way more than 3 times in succession. Actually, even that's pushing it!

She loves to run and jump and be rough, so when training at the local oval, I try to do one or two exercises then release her for a run and a play with me. She refocuses quickly... unless I want her to heel

Hehe, sounds like Erik and his sit-stays. He just does not like them, no matter how heavily I reward it. Kivi will do sit-stays and heels all day, but with Erik it's more like a Premack thing. If you sit-stay I will come back and give you food and then we'll go for a run together or play some tug. He can still be resistant about sits and is easily distracted from it, but I find if I jackpot a bit he gets more interested in it. Erik's favourite kind of jackpot is if I let him have about a second to wolf down as much of the treat back contents as he can. He thinks it's a big win if he gets momentary unfettered access to the treat bag.

[BMAK]

JUST AND IDEA

* change you treats up

* tug toys instead of food

*short 3 minute exercises for your heeling

some working breeds will work better after having a break of sorts for a week or two from obedience.

if you have another dog train it first while your other dog watches she will want to get out of her create or from being tied up

make it a game with your heeling go back to basics teach her the position of heel (left leg) but work on getting her closer to your leg and attention just for one step foward and make her reward instant use a tug toy as her reward instead of food for doing that one step, for watching you. she will expect something fun if she gets two steps done etc etc eventually you will have a dog that know when shes in that position watching she gets a game.

but she must be in right near you left leg to get game is she doesnt perform re-do the exercise.

then expand how many steps you take before she get the reward but always mix match it so she doesnt know when her reward is comming.

for your "figure 8 exercise" if you do that when you enter go left so you get the dog inline make sure she knows you have food on you.

when you heel around the post with your dog on the outside get her excited and try to get her to speed up her aim is to race you to the middle but being in the heel position.

she gets rewarded everytime she races you she gets fed in the middle"her reward" if she heels beside you

[poodlefan]

Mix it up. Make it more like a game of chase with the reward coming for obtaining or holding the right position. Do lots of fast pace too. It shouldnt' be like a funeral procession.

Short sessions with lots of changes of pace and direction and releases for a tug or ball chase (if that is your dog's thing) may help. Verbal encouragement also has its uses for establishing focus on you.

You don't heel for all that long in the trialling ring at the lower levels. Keep it short and mix it up with other exercises.

Edited August 30, 2010 by poodlefan

[wuffles]

Thanks for all your replies guys I already do try to make it fun for her and we never do really long heeling sessions.

I've armed myself with some soft toys which she loves but doesn't get often as she tears them to pieces, and am going to try using those as a reward along with food. She tends to do positioning and really short (one or two step) exercises well already so I will go back to those for a while to keep her interest up.

She's a great little dog to work and is full of spirit, the kind that does most things with bum-a-waggin' and tongue hanging out the side of her mouth. I know it's my job to encourage that attitude rather than making her think, "do I have to?"

[Tapferhund]

1: Regardless of being neutered or entire Ive found most bitches go a bit vague or hypersensitive between 6 and 12 months. Its like my confident puppy has dissapeared - everything I taught them has been erased from memory. Not easily explained with being neutered or not. I am only guessing as to why.

Tapua,

The reason is ..its a bad age for all dogs, they go through a 'fear' period around this age as well as a "selective deafness" stage (lol) and some are affected worse than others. Also it tends to hit the boys worse than it does the girls. All you can do is work the dog through it by not making a fuss when out and about or training.

But wait...there's more...... :D they go through another 'stage' around 18mths of age.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Tapferhund

[wuffles]

Thought I'd update this thread on how we've been going.

We have both been enjoying a few fun exercises this week; rear end awareness on the phonebook (which she loves), stationary heel, short or circle heel patterns throwing the rewards for her to catch or find, rewarding with a run and a play with a soft toy.

I am still having issues with any actual heel patterns though. She is off with the fairies as soon as we step off once she realises it's not one of our "fun games" and we actually have to walk in straight lines Her focus lasts about 2 seconds if she thinks we are doing a "normal" heeling pattern. I think I am just expecting a lot of her at her age, so will continue the games and see how that goes

[huski]

Thought I'd update this thread on how we've been going.

We have both been enjoying a few fun exercises this week; rear end awareness on the phonebook (which she loves), stationary heel, short or circle heel patterns throwing the rewards for her to catch or find, rewarding with a run and a play with a soft toy.

I am still having issues with any actual heel patterns though. She is off with the fairies as soon as we step off once she realises it's not one of our "fun games" and we actually have to walk in straight lines Her focus lasts about 2 seconds if she thinks we are doing a "normal" heeling pattern. I think I am just expecting a lot of her at her age, so will continue the games and see how that goes

I would build up to a full heel pattern more slowly. Teach her to focus for a step or two, then three then four, then ask her to focus for ten steps etc. Be more unpredictable, set her up to do a heel pattern and then break into a reward at the start post or after the first couple of steps so she learns the reward could come at any time.

The problem I had was similar to yours, my dog learnt heel patterns were a time to get bored, switch off and lose interest in training which can be quite common with dogs who do a lot of paddock bashing in classes. Retraining heel work to be something super exciting was a very gradual process.

[wuffles]

Thanks huski, I agree that I need to slowly build up to the heel patterns again. To be honest she hasn't really done much paddock bashing, our instructors are pretty good and are good at mixing up the training. Not that it makes that much of a difference as she obviously still thinks it's boring

[Karelea Aussies]

Are you up when you train?

If I am a bit tired and slow in my pace, Tilly could care less and gets easily distracted and bored. If I pick myself up in voice AND body and get really animated, the change is instant and she really switches on.

I had thought that she was not enjoying it until one of the trainers told me to get moving, and the difference was amazing . I think her lack of animation was coming from my lack of animation.

I am only a very novice trainer and its just a thought .

[wuffles]

If I am a bit tired and slow in my pace, Tilly could care less and gets easily distracted and bored. If I pick myself up in voice AND body and get really animated, the change is instant and she really switches on.

I definitely know what you mean thelinks Yes, she is much better at a faster pace, which I find difficult in class as everyone else has slower, lagging dogs and I always end up running into them!! I was doing some jogging on the oval yesterday, had her off leash, and she was running along beside me having a great time. I tried alternating between a few steps of walking pace heeling and breaking into a jog, which she thought was a great game.

[Karelea Aussies]

I definitely know what you mean thelinks Yes, she is much better at a faster pace, which I find difficult in class as everyone else has slower, lagging dogs and I always end up running into them!! I was doing some jogging on the oval yesterday, had her off leash, and she was running along beside me having a great time. I tried alternating between a few steps of walking pace heeling and breaking into a jog, which she thought was a great game.

I try to get on the end of the row and just go for it and if anyone gets in my way, watch out. Our instructors are always trying to up the pace anyway. Tilly would looove jogging, but I am not fit enough for that yet.

[wuffles]

Tilly would looove jogging, but I am not fit enough for that yet.

I'm 4 months post ACL reconstruction in my knee so I haven't jogged in a long time. The physio has only just given me jogging exercises, but they are strictly confined to flat grassed areas. The first time I tried to do my 10 x 20m jogs I nearly died of exhaustion I'm now nearly up to 10 x 100m, and Ava is good motivation to do my exercises!