Ethical Byb?

[asal]

What a shame, if this person knew so much about the breed and was ticking the right boxes, that they didn;t take that one step further and become a registered breeder.

Any good work that they may have done, is wasted and if they were managing to produce quality pup that conformed to the breed standard, they are worthless and have been lost to the breed gene pool.

you forgot, there are heaps of ethicals who will never let anyone have a registered pup from their kennel.

cant let the blood out u know?

cant risk even one going to a backyarder.

i know one bemoning losing decades of breeding when a family member trusted with looking after the bitches while the person went on a holiday came home to discover they all had been desexed . one came in season unexpectedly and the hubby of the household, decided this was all too much of a problem and had all three done as a job lot, cheaper by the dozen as they say.

end of line.

n because nothing had ever been passed on with papers no where to ask for a pup in the next litter.

just go read the dogzonline puppys for sale and see the chances of getting one with papers

n dont kid yourself, theres a lot who suspcribe to that thinking. so where is a closed kennel contributing to any part of a breeds future when noone else has access to them?

i know my hubby doesnt want to even contemplate me letting anyone have one of my colts, hes been cutting em all for 30 years, cant get him to see, where is the line to continue, when what we have are dead and gone?

so its not just dogs it happens

[rubiton]

Would also ask why someone who is not a registered breeder is actually breeding? Is it for the betterment of the breed (so trying to get that ideal breed standard trying to breed top class animal to top class animal. If so why not be registered as has been mentioned.

Exception to this would be working dogs however they are still bred on the principal of the best working dog to the best working dog to produce the offspring that will be top class working dogs - these breeders are not planning their main sale market to be for pets.

[Ozstar]

An ethical breeder is one that breeds under best practice for the health of not only the immediate stock, but ensuring quality pups and further progeny that have the ability to contribute to a healthy gene pool in AUstralia. Anyone who doesnt think that far is simply a BYBer. Remember ethics and personal beliefs are two different things.

Well said To me ethics is far more important than a prefix.

Thats easy because they dont want to be a CC member.

Part of what I do as a registered breeder is to ensure that my pedigrees are registered to enable any one else - and me- to be able to enter health and temperament issues so that is able to be used in future generations. I could simply resign from Dogs NSW and continue to do exactly as I have been doing for 35 years without the need to register my puppies. Would I instantly become unethical overnight because I do that - I don't think so.

I can still sell them with a pedigree - just not a registered pedigree but that means it stops there. No other breeder can use what Ive bred to improve on what they have and I don't breed for anything as a priority other than that. Because Im not just considering this litter and these puppies Im considering what comes next - not just next litter but how what I do now may impact on the breed and therefore families who live with dogs for generations. I dont see someone who has a different goal to me as being automatically unethical but I think if we are interested in breeding great healthy dogs we need to do that with science and not just luck .Without the registered pedigree system then it will either sooner or later become just luck.

There is good and bad in every group and when we start to believe thats not possible we become the rednecks.

I have only done a handfull of shows this year as I just don't have the time at the moment and to be honest with all the bullsh*t that goes on at shows lately I really can not be bothered. This does not change my outlook on ethics and I do not believe that someone should be downgraded just because they don't show.

There are far to many unethical registered breeders out there now that really being registered does not mean what it used to.

Leanne

[HeavyPaws]

I would love to breed Danes because the idea appeals to me. The idea of selling and getting money from it doesn't appeal to me; constructing better, healthier, long lived dogs from selected lines; raising the puppies, seeing them off to responsible, good homes, seeing the strong lines of good Danes continue, is all enough to make me want to breed.

However, I have no interest in showing. I've been to many, many shows and quite frankly the most interesting thing there {to me, at least} is seeing that year's new additions to the great breed. Seeing how traits can develop over generations of careful breeding, seeing how temperament passes down, picking which breeder bred each puppy just from body shape and colour, it's all happy times for me.

I, however, would not buy a pair of Trading Post merle knock-knees and slap them together and call it 'my own line'.

I will not breed unless I have the money to do so, the experience to do so, funds to test for everything that it is possible to test for, the knowledge and support gleaned from more experienced breeders, and the know-how to provide the best puppies to the best homes.

Therefore, I do not breed.

If I bred now, with the resources I have now, I would call myself a BYB and unethical breeder, no matter what I know of the breed.

Good intentions do not make good deeds.

[Mystiqview]

Red BC,

I am not going at you.. but I presume by your handle you have a red/white border collie?

The colours are fads. Sorry to say.. There are some ethical and non ethical breeders out there who do breed colours, so if you are looking again for another coloured border collie (or black/white) then please do you homework carefully.

There is not only CEA and CL. There is also TNS (Trapped Neutrophil Syndrome) which is like a leukaemia. This kills dogs before they are 6 months of age. There is a DNA test for this. There are still some breeders who advertise their stock as CEA/CL clear but have not done TNS. And likewise for the other two.

There is also hip/elbow displacia and OCD of the shoulder. Where her dogs hip/elbow scored?

Were her dogs on Main Registration or Limit? The dogs could have been on Limit Registration and yes they would have pedigree papers, however those dogs may have great temperaments, but at the same time did not have the quality to be bred with. IF she did have those dogs on Limit Registrations, did she agree to the breeder she got those off, to desex the dog and didn't? There are ethics there too. It is an understanding with Limit Registration, that owners would desex their animals before their first birthday. (I am sure it used to be on the Qld forms regarding desexing).

She may have fed her animals a premium diet, and seemed to know a lot about everything and the breed. At the time as well, you as a new puppy buyer may have thought WOW, but once you start to research the breed start to see holes in what you thought was great knowledge. Even registered breeders don't know everything. Life is about constantly learning.

Some lines and dogs carry more issues than just CEA, CL and TNS. A good ethical breeder has a mentor behind them and finds out about those other issues before breeding two dogs together. Some combinations work and some don't. Some dogs you do not double up on too many times in the pedigree unless you are looking for trouble.

Many of these BYB and colour breeders will only buy from breeders who have already done the testing and have clear stock by parentage.. Again save money in the bottom pocket because they do not have to continue with the testing of breeding stock.

This is particularly an issue in some colour lines. Coloured border collies can fetch more money because the punters want something different to the standard black/white so those coloured breeders charge (or rip off) people for a dog that is not necessarily quality. Just it's colour.

Depending on where you live, here in Brisbane, you need to be a member of Dogs Queensland with a Prefix to have the necessary permits with local council to breed dogs. If you don't have those, then you don't get the council local permit. So you are breaking the law breeding dogs in your back yard. The same goes for Moreton and Ipswich councils (and I am sure it is similar for the other councils here).

There is a lot more to ethics than just looking after your animals, having the occasional litter and doing the health tests. I would call it ethical to look after your animals to a high quality of living regardless of whether you breed or just have them as companions. Breeding: you are responsible for what you put out there. You need to make sure, what you put out there are healthy, have great temperaments, are good breed examples and a joy to own to both the owner and the wider community. You also have a responsibility to protect the future of the breed. The wrong breeding principles now, will stuff up the dogs of tomorrow.

As for the show to breed. That is a bug bear to a lot of people. There are those who used to show, and no longer show: maybe through family commitments or age/injury. There are those who compete in performance activities and breed to that arena. Again they may used to and no longer for the same reasons. It does not mean those people should never breed. IF they don't keep up in the area of their choice, then they should at least keep up with the theory and knowledge of the breed of their choice.

All breeders should be able to critique their own dogs fairly and honestly and identify the faults that their animals have and identify the faults and strengths in the dogs they wish to put their animals to. You can generally see the breeders who don't know their dogs and can identify their dogs through the same faults they breed generation after generation. Some faults may take longer to get out, but if it is a major fault like east/west fronts then maybe they should reassess their breeding stock for example.

[toy dog]

All breeders should be able to critique their own dogs fairly and honestly and identify the faults that their animals have and identify the faults and strengths in the dogs they wish to put their animals to. You can generally see the breeders who don't know their dogs and can identify their dogs through the same faults they breed generation after generation. Some faults may take longer to get out, but if it is a major fault like east/west fronts then maybe they should reassess their breeding stock for example.

i agree with this post. if a breeder isn't registered so they can contribute to the gene pool, then what are they breeding for? i've heard many say "for good pets" but more often than not, its a front for the real reason. $$$$$

in another breed we had besides the one in my avatar, many years ago, there was this lady that considered herself an expert, got dogs from the registered breeders that had good dogs, bred them had heaps to the point where i'd question that she was just a little hobby breeder, bought a pup off her to start up with, meant to be a show and breeding puppy, gave it back telling her that it had an overshot jaw wasn't going to start with that sorry. She said "what is an overshot jaw?" i knew then that she hadn't ever examined a breed standard and she was trying to breed show quality dogs?

i think really $$$$$$$$$ was more important to her than breeding nice little pets for the community. she is still breeding but unregistered now, and has alot of dogs, heaps......why????????? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$