I Feel Like Killing My Dog

[Aidan]

I would encourage her to dig in the compost heap instead. She did have a sand-pit, but I liked the compost being turned. She caught on quickly and left the lawn alone. It was very messy though.

A dog would LOVE digging in compost I would imagine - smelly and dirty and blergh!

Sorry, this is something I disagree with. Many dogs that we see at the clinic are there because they dug in the compost and picked up a nasty bacteria or fungus infection, or injested something like a corn cob or other obstruction.

fifi

Yes, yes, leave out the corn cobs, onion, grapes, etc These are open piles of leaves, lawn clippings, weeds, straw, dog hair, dropped fruit and that sort of thing. But do you really see dogs who have caught bacterial or fungal infections from healthy compost piles, where that dog wasn't already of seriously compromised health? Short of substantial fencing I'm not sure how any dog is kept out of the compost heap.

[Aziah]

Agree with those who've suggested constant, daily exercise...

Also try filling a couple of clam shells with sand for her to dig in, that way she gets to dig but where you want her to?

[fifi]

I would encourage her to dig in the compost heap instead. She did have a sand-pit, but I liked the compost being turned. She caught on quickly and left the lawn alone. It was very messy though.

A dog would LOVE digging in compost I would imagine - smelly and dirty and blergh!

Sorry, this is something I disagree with. Many dogs that we see at the clinic are there because they dug in the compost and picked up a nasty bacteria or fungus infection, or injested something like a corn cob or other obstruction.

fifi

Yes, yes, leave out the corn cobs, onion, grapes, etc These are open piles of leaves, lawn clippings, weeds, straw, dog hair, dropped fruit and that sort of thing. But do you really see dogs who have caught bacterial or fungal infections from healthy compost piles, where that dog wasn't already of seriously compromised health? Short of substantial fencing I'm not sure how any dog is kept out of the compost heap.

We see bacterial infections from compost that contains rotten meat/food/carcass ect. In fact we've had two in the past two weeks.

It would usually need to be an immune compromised animal for fungal infection like aspergillus ect.

I think compost heaps are better fenced off or to have lids / sides.

fifi

[FranVT]

Eww, who puts meat in their compost bin!? Ours is a big swingy buckety thing (v. technical terms there).

[poodlefan]

We see bacterial infections from compost that contains rotten meat/food/carcass ect. In fact we've had two in the past two weeks.

It would usually need to be an immune compromised animal for fungal infection like aspergillus ect.

I think compost heaps are better fenced off or to have lids / sides.

fifi

Are the dogs eating the compost Fifi.. protein sources in compost are the fastest way to get maggots I can think of.

[sas]

I'm not sure if I'm looking at this to simple but I don't know why you're letting these events occur that piss you off so much.

If you know she is a destro dog then when you take her outside don't let her be out there unsupervised.

When you go out, put her in her kennel (if you don't have one, build one).

Seems like that's problem solved?

If she loves digging so much maybe take her somewhere once a week she can run off lead and dig such as a beach or a farm etc.

Also have you considered changing her diet and perhaps putting her on a calming powder? Might not work but I don't believe it will hurt either.

Edited August 27, 2010 by sas

[ash&elar]

I laughed when I read the post that said she doesnt respect me. What the f*** does respect have to do with a dog thats obsessed with digging? Until you have seen her in action its difficult to understand I guess. Shes normally well behaved, she does get barky at times but I have a barking collar that I use on her bad days. She isnt destructive at all in the house, she doesnt chew up bedding or even stuffed toys anymore. She can be trusted to be left in the house for hours when Im out. She will sit, stay, drop, and has a brilliant recall. She heels when i insist and I am always getting comments on how well behaved/trained she is. She understands lots of other commands too, things like get in the car, wait, roll over etc. I ask her if she needs to go to the loo and she will go to the back door if she needs to go. She is a well behaved dog, trained to a point where she is easy to live with. Ive taught her manners, she knows not to barge past me to get in the door - stuff like that. I used to take her to obedience but it was just too boring for her and she didnt enjoy it. She is great in the ring - unless its windy or she's in season then shes a bit scatty. She is storm phobic but soon as she hears thunder in the distance she will start barking and i crate her, she settles very quickly in her crate. She is a lovely affectionate happy dog. Its just the digging that does my head in.

Indigo who's the boss you or the dog. You are the pack leader and the dog does as you say.

You also say this....she heels when I insist. Well insist she doesn't dig.

You also say she isn't destructive in the house....of course not, you can get to her quickly to correct her.

Now nobody tell me I don't know what I am talking because I do.

1. Instructor at obedience

2. Titled dogs in obedience

4. Passes at Best in Trial level

5. Held an obedience judges licence.

When you find the dog digging, run towards her making loud noises. Push her to the ground and roll her around manhandling her. This is what the pack leader would do if she disobeyed.

Let her know it is wrong to dig.

If that fails think up things that are displeasing so that when she digs she will blame herself for it.

It's also very easy with electric collars. Put one on her and let go out side and when start to dig zap her.

If you are not standing close to her and do this every time she starts to dig she will soon blame herself.

Make the dog blame herself for digging. She will soon learn that digging brings bad results for her and she will think she causes it and should stop.

Just make sure you are well away from the dog when she gets zapped in this case you want the dog to blame herself.

If you want the dog to blame you and see you as pack leader, try the first method.

+1 agree with these ideas.

[DerRottweiler]

I laughed when I read the post that said she doesnt respect me. What the f*** does respect have to do with a dog thats obsessed with digging? Until you have seen her in action its difficult to understand I guess. Shes normally well behaved, she does get barky at times but I have a barking collar that I use on her bad days. She isnt destructive at all in the house, she doesnt chew up bedding or even stuffed toys anymore. She can be trusted to be left in the house for hours when Im out. She will sit, stay, drop, and has a brilliant recall. She heels when i insist and I am always getting comments on how well behaved/trained she is. She understands lots of other commands too, things like get in the car, wait, roll over etc. I ask her if she needs to go to the loo and she will go to the back door if she needs to go. She is a well behaved dog, trained to a point where she is easy to live with. Ive taught her manners, she knows not to barge past me to get in the door - stuff like that. I used to take her to obedience but it was just too boring for her and she didnt enjoy it. She is great in the ring - unless its windy or she's in season then shes a bit scatty. She is storm phobic but soon as she hears thunder in the distance she will start barking and i crate her, she settles very quickly in her crate. She is a lovely affectionate happy dog. Its just the digging that does my head in.

Indigo who's the boss you or the dog. You are the pack leader and the dog does as you say.

You also say this....she heels when I insist. Well insist she doesn't dig.

You also say she isn't destructive in the house....of course not, you can get to her quickly to correct her.

Now nobody tell me I don't know what I am talking because I do.

1. Instructor at obedience

2. Titled dogs in obedience

4. Passes at Best in Trial level

5. Held an obedience judges licence.

When you find the dog digging, run towards her making loud noises. Push her to the ground and roll her around manhandling her. This is what the pack leader would do if she disobeyed.

Let her know it is wrong to dig.

If that fails think up things that are displeasing so that when she digs she will blame herself for it.

It's also very easy with electric collars. Put one on her and let go out side and when start to dig zap her.

If you are not standing close to her and do this every time she starts to dig she will soon blame herself.

Make the dog blame herself for digging. She will soon learn that digging brings bad results for her and she will think she causes it and should stop.

Just make sure you are well away from the dog when she gets zapped in this case you want the dog to blame herself.

If you want the dog to blame you and see you as pack leader, try the first method.

+1 agree with these ideas.

+2

You can stop wrong behaviours, the dog will associate digging with your displeasure. Tell the dog what to do...(or not to do) and it must comply. If it doesn't listen (after it has made this association), you have no respect.

Edited August 27, 2010 by DerRottweiler

[fifi]

We see bacterial infections from compost that contains rotten meat/food/carcass ect. In fact we've had two in the past two weeks.

It would usually need to be an immune compromised animal for fungal infection like aspergillus ect.

I think compost heaps are better fenced off or to have lids / sides.

fifi

Are the dogs eating the compost Fifi.. protein sources in compost are the fastest way to get maggots I can think of.

Yes, digging, which of course uncovers 'yum' stuff & eating !! you can't convince some folk not to put everything in their compost piles !!!

fifi

[poodlefan]

I laughed when I read the post that said she doesnt respect me. What the f*** does respect have to do with a dog thats obsessed with digging? Until you have seen her in action its difficult to understand I guess. Shes normally well behaved, she does get barky at times but I have a barking collar that I use on her bad days. She isnt destructive at all in the house, she doesnt chew up bedding or even stuffed toys anymore. She can be trusted to be left in the house for hours when Im out. She will sit, stay, drop, and has a brilliant recall. She heels when i insist and I am always getting comments on how well behaved/trained she is. She understands lots of other commands too, things like get in the car, wait, roll over etc. I ask her if she needs to go to the loo and she will go to the back door if she needs to go. She is a well behaved dog, trained to a point where she is easy to live with. Ive taught her manners, she knows not to barge past me to get in the door - stuff like that. I used to take her to obedience but it was just too boring for her and she didnt enjoy it. She is great in the ring - unless its windy or she's in season then shes a bit scatty. She is storm phobic but soon as she hears thunder in the distance she will start barking and i crate her, she settles very quickly in her crate. She is a lovely affectionate happy dog. Its just the digging that does my head in.

Indigo who's the boss you or the dog. You are the pack leader and the dog does as you say.

You also say this....she heels when I insist. Well insist she doesn't dig.

You also say she isn't destructive in the house....of course not, you can get to her quickly to correct her.

Now nobody tell me I don't know what I am talking because I do.

1. Instructor at obedience

2. Titled dogs in obedience

4. Passes at Best in Trial level

5. Held an obedience judges licence.

When you find the dog digging, run towards her making loud noises. Push her to the ground and roll her around manhandling her. This is what the pack leader would do if she disobeyed.

Let her know it is wrong to dig.

If that fails think up things that are displeasing so that when she digs she will blame herself for it.

It's also very easy with electric collars. Put one on her and let go out side and when start to dig zap her.

If you are not standing close to her and do this every time she starts to dig she will soon blame herself.

Make the dog blame herself for digging. She will soon learn that digging brings bad results for her and she will think she causes it and should stop.

Just make sure you are well away from the dog when she gets zapped in this case you want the dog to blame herself.

If you want the dog to blame you and see you as pack leader, try the first method.

I agree with this post.

You can stop wrong behaviours, the dog will associate digging with your displeasure. Tell the dog what to do...(or not to do) and it must comply.

So how is manhandling or shocking a dog telling the dog "what not to do". It's just an assault for no reason that's clear to the dog. If the dog is already digging, it probably wont' even know why you did it. There's no command, no cue, no required behaviour being taught. Indeed, the poster who recommends using a shock collar you shouldn't be near the dog at all. Pack leader dogs don't beat up other dogs for doing what is natural, non-confrontational undirected behaviour. The analogy doesn't wash with me. How does "leadership" get involved when you want the dog to "blame itself" for doing something wrong.

This is a perfect illustration of why "obedience training" and "behaviour modification" should not be considered to be an automatically complementary set of skills. Having an OC Obedience dog doesn't necessarily mean you know anything about modifying unwanted self rewarding dog behaviour. Hell I can think of at least one multi state title winning obedience trialler whose dogs could not be reliably recalled under even low distraction outside the ring. Conversely, I can think of very talented behaviorists who will never darken a trialling ring.

[sas]

I laughed when I read the post that said she doesnt respect me. What the f*** does respect have to do with a dog thats obsessed with digging? Until you have seen her in action its difficult to understand I guess. Shes normally well behaved, she does get barky at times but I have a barking collar that I use on her bad days. She isnt destructive at all in the house, she doesnt chew up bedding or even stuffed toys anymore. She can be trusted to be left in the house for hours when Im out. She will sit, stay, drop, and has a brilliant recall. She heels when i insist and I am always getting comments on how well behaved/trained she is. She understands lots of other commands too, things like get in the car, wait, roll over etc. I ask her if she needs to go to the loo and she will go to the back door if she needs to go. She is a well behaved dog, trained to a point where she is easy to live with. Ive taught her manners, she knows not to barge past me to get in the door - stuff like that. I used to take her to obedience but it was just too boring for her and she didnt enjoy it. She is great in the ring - unless its windy or she's in season then shes a bit scatty. She is storm phobic but soon as she hears thunder in the distance she will start barking and i crate her, she settles very quickly in her crate. She is a lovely affectionate happy dog. Its just the digging that does my head in.

Indigo who's the boss you or the dog. You are the pack leader and the dog does as you say.

You also say this....she heels when I insist. Well insist she doesn't dig.

You also say she isn't destructive in the house....of course not, you can get to her quickly to correct her.

Now nobody tell me I don't know what I am talking because I do.

1. Instructor at obedience

2. Titled dogs in obedience

4. Passes at Best in Trial level

5. Held an obedience judges licence.

When you find the dog digging, run towards her making loud noises. Push her to the ground and roll her around manhandling her. This is what the pack leader would do if she disobeyed.

Let her know it is wrong to dig.

If that fails think up things that are displeasing so that when she digs she will blame herself for it.

It's also very easy with electric collars. Put one on her and let go out side and when start to dig zap her.

If you are not standing close to her and do this every time she starts to dig she will soon blame herself.

Make the dog blame herself for digging. She will soon learn that digging brings bad results for her and she will think she causes it and should stop.

Just make sure you are well away from the dog when she gets zapped in this case you want the dog to blame herself.

If you want the dog to blame you and see you as pack leader, try the first method.

I agree with this post.

You can stop wrong behaviours, the dog will associate digging with your displeasure. Tell the dog what to do...(or not to do) and it must comply.

So how is manhandling or shocking a dog telling the dog "what not to do". It's just an assault for no reason that's clear to the dog. If the dog is already digging, it probably wont' even know why you did it. There's no command, no cue, no required behaviour being taught. Indeed, the poster who recommends using a shock collar you shouldn't be near the dog at all. Pack leader dogs don't beat up other dogs for doing what is natural, non-confrontational undirected behaviour. The analogy doesn't wash with me. How does "leadership" get involved when you want the dog to "blame itself" for doing something wrong.

This is a perfect illustration of why "obedience training" and "behaviour modification" should not be considered to be an automatically complementary set of skills. Having an OC Obedience dog doesn't necessarily mean you know anything about modifying unwanted self rewarding dog behaviour. Hell I can think of at least one multi state title winning obedience trialler whose dogs could not be reliably recalled under even low distraction outside the ring. Conversely, I can think of very talented behaviorists who will never darken a trialling ring.

+1!

[DerRottweiler]

I laughed when I read the post that said she doesnt respect me. What the f*** does respect have to do with a dog thats obsessed with digging? Until you have seen her in action its difficult to understand I guess. Shes normally well behaved, she does get barky at times but I have a barking collar that I use on her bad days. She isnt destructive at all in the house, she doesnt chew up bedding or even stuffed toys anymore. She can be trusted to be left in the house for hours when Im out. She will sit, stay, drop, and has a brilliant recall. She heels when i insist and I am always getting comments on how well behaved/trained she is. She understands lots of other commands too, things like get in the car, wait, roll over etc. I ask her if she needs to go to the loo and she will go to the back door if she needs to go. She is a well behaved dog, trained to a point where she is easy to live with. Ive taught her manners, she knows not to barge past me to get in the door - stuff like that. I used to take her to obedience but it was just too boring for her and she didnt enjoy it. She is great in the ring - unless its windy or she's in season then shes a bit scatty. She is storm phobic but soon as she hears thunder in the distance she will start barking and i crate her, she settles very quickly in her crate. She is a lovely affectionate happy dog. Its just the digging that does my head in.

Indigo who's the boss you or the dog. You are the pack leader and the dog does as you say.

You also say this....she heels when I insist. Well insist she doesn't dig.

You also say she isn't destructive in the house....of course not, you can get to her quickly to correct her.

Now nobody tell me I don't know what I am talking because I do.

1. Instructor at obedience

2. Titled dogs in obedience

4. Passes at Best in Trial level

5. Held an obedience judges licence.

When you find the dog digging, run towards her making loud noises. Push her to the ground and roll her around manhandling her. This is what the pack leader would do if she disobeyed.

Let her know it is wrong to dig.

If that fails think up things that are displeasing so that when she digs she will blame herself for it.

It's also very easy with electric collars. Put one on her and let go out side and when start to dig zap her.

If you are not standing close to her and do this every time she starts to dig she will soon blame herself.

Make the dog blame herself for digging. She will soon learn that digging brings bad results for her and she will think she causes it and should stop.

Just make sure you are well away from the dog when she gets zapped in this case you want the dog to blame herself.

If you want the dog to blame you and see you as pack leader, try the first method.

I agree with this post.

You can stop wrong behaviours, the dog will associate digging with your displeasure. Tell the dog what to do...(or not to do) and it must comply.

So how is manhandling or shocking a dog telling the dog "what not to do". It's just an assault for no reason that's clear to the dog. If the dog is already digging, it probably wont' even know why you did it. There's no command, no cue, no required behaviour being taught. Indeed, the poster who recommends using a shock collar you shouldn't be near the dog at all. Pack leader dogs don't beat up other dogs for doing what is natural, non-confrontational undirected behaviour. The analogy doesn't wash with me. How does "leadership" get involved when you want the dog to "blame itself" for doing something wrong.

This is a perfect illustration of why "obedience training" and "behaviour modification" should not be considered to be an automatically complementary set of skills. Having an OC Obedience dog doesn't necessarily mean you know anything about modifying unwanted self rewarding dog behaviour. Hell I can think of at least one multi state title winning obedience trialler whose dogs could not be reliably recalled under even low distraction outside the ring. Conversely, I can think of very talented behaviorists who will never darken a trialling ring.

A correction would have to be swift and precise (i would try verbal first). Obviously the dog needs to know that the digging is resulting in the problem.

It would need to be timed very carefully so that the dog can make the association that digging=wrong.

Once it knows you that said behaviour is wrong and STILL continues to do it, then you have leadership problems. To clarify I wouldn't blame the dog itself.

ETA: My original post is edited to reflect my position better.

Edited August 27, 2010 by DerRottweiler

[Cosmolo]

I have a dog who loves to dig- she is not anxious, nor is she bored- she just enjoys it. I have used chicken wire pegged flat on all of my garden beds but the lawn is a bit tougher to do- so i just restrict access. She has allergies too so shouldn't really be left out on the grass for long periods anyway and she keeps my boy with joint issues company inside (he can't spend long periods out or he will get quite sore playing)

Its a win win for us- i get to keep my nice lawn (which does mean alot to me- i love my garden and understand how others feel the same) she never gets in trouble for it and gets stimulated in other ways that she also really enjoys. The plan is for a big sand pit to be created down the side of the house as well for all the dogs to use if they want to.

Its not about leadership and certainly not about the dog learning to blame herself..

[persephone]

I laughed when I read the post that said she doesnt respect me. What the f*** does respect have to do with a dog thats obsessed with digging? Until you have seen her in action its difficult to understand I guess. Shes normally well behaved, she does get barky at times but I have a barking collar that I use on her bad days. She isnt destructive at all in the house, she doesnt chew up bedding or even stuffed toys anymore. She can be trusted to be left in the house for hours when Im out. She will sit, stay, drop, and has a brilliant recall. She heels when i insist and I am always getting comments on how well behaved/trained she is. She understands lots of other commands too, things like get in the car, wait, roll over etc. I ask her if she needs to go to the loo and she will go to the back door if she needs to go. She is a well behaved dog, trained to a point where she is easy to live with. Ive taught her manners, she knows not to barge past me to get in the door - stuff like that. I used to take her to obedience but it was just too boring for her and she didnt enjoy it. She is great in the ring - unless its windy or she's in season then shes a bit scatty. She is storm phobic but soon as she hears thunder in the distance she will start barking and i crate her, she settles very quickly in her crate. She is a lovely affectionate happy dog. Its just the digging that does my head in.

Indigo who's the boss you or the dog. You are the pack leader and the dog does as you say.

You also say this....she heels when I insist. Well insist she doesn't dig.

You also say she isn't destructive in the house....of course not, you can get to her quickly to correct her.

Now nobody tell me I don't know what I am talking because I do.

1. Instructor at obedience

2. Titled dogs in obedience

4. Passes at Best in Trial level

5. Held an obedience judges licence.

When you find the dog digging, run towards her making loud noises. Push her to the ground and roll her around manhandling her. This is what the pack leader would do if she disobeyed.

Let her know it is wrong to dig.

If that fails think up things that are displeasing so that when she digs she will blame herself for it.

It's also very easy with electric collars. Put one on her and let go out side and when start to dig zap her.

If you are not standing close to her and do this every time she starts to dig she will soon blame herself.

Make the dog blame herself for digging. She will soon learn that digging brings bad results for her and she will think she causes it and should stop.

Just make sure you are well away from the dog when she gets zapped in this case you want the dog to blame herself.

If you want the dog to blame you and see you as pack leader, try the first method.

I agree with this post.

You can stop wrong behaviours, the dog will associate digging with your displeasure. Tell the dog what to do...(or not to do) and it must comply.

So how is manhandling or shocking a dog telling the dog "what not to do". It's just an assault for no reason that's clear to the dog. If the dog is already digging, it probably wont' even know why you did it. There's no command, no cue, no required behaviour being taught. Indeed, the poster who recommends using a shock collar you shouldn't be near the dog at all. Pack leader dogs don't beat up other dogs for doing what is natural, non-confrontational undirected behaviour. The analogy doesn't wash with me. How does "leadership" get involved when you want the dog to "blame itself" for doing something wrong.

This is a perfect illustration of why "obedience training" and "behaviour modification" should not be considered to be an automatically complementary set of skills. Having an OC Obedience dog doesn't necessarily mean you know anything about modifying unwanted self rewarding dog behaviour. Hell I can think of at least one multi state title winning obedience trialler whose dogs could not be reliably recalled under even low distraction outside the ring. Conversely, I can think of very talented behaviorists who will never darken a trialling ring.

+1!

+2 !!

[JulesP]

I don't see it as a leadership problem either. If you go out and call your dog off the hole and it refuses then that is a leadership problem.

My dogs have dug after a day out herding so they shouldn't be bored or full of energy then!

I managed to stop them digging in one hole by using the poo trick but found they just dug elsewhere so I have an area that I have 'sacrificed'.

I think the only way to stop behaviors like this is make the behavior very unpleasant for the dog in a way that doesn't relate to you. A guy at work used chile powder in the holes. That might not be enough for the OP dog though.

[persephone]

Digging obviously gives her a real "high" .... kinda like chewing gum/smoking/chocolate...

I second the digging pit idea!! Lord- where you are there's plenty of nice dirt/gravel around !!

find an area ..even on teh concrete! make a container out of sleepers or something... walls would need to be nearly a metre high..and 3/4 fill it with soil //add a few treats/a bit of someone's lawn /turf for the smell .. dampt it down, and see how she goes.

[Ravyk]

I would encourage her to dig in the compost heap instead. She did have a sand-pit, but I liked the compost being turned. She caught on quickly and left the lawn alone. It was very messy though.

A dog would LOVE digging in compost I would imagine - smelly and dirty and blergh!

Sorry, this is something I disagree with. Many dogs that we see at the clinic are there because they dug in the compost and picked up a nasty bacteria or fungus infection, or injested something like a corn cob or other obstruction.

fifi

Yes, yes, leave out the corn cobs, onion, grapes, etc These are open piles of leaves, lawn clippings, weeds, straw, dog hair, dropped fruit and that sort of thing. But do you really see dogs who have caught bacterial or fungal infections from healthy compost piles, where that dog wasn't already of seriously compromised health? Short of substantial fencing I'm not sure how any dog is kept out of the compost heap.

We see bacterial infections from compost that contains rotten meat/food/carcass ect. In fact we've had two in the past two weeks.

It would usually need to be an immune compromised animal for fungal infection like aspergillus ect.

I think compost heaps are better fenced off or to have lids / sides.

fifi

Well unfortunately for the dogs the owners didn't know how to do a compost heap properly. Compost shouldn't contain any meat or meat products raw or cooked. It attracts nasties, like bad bacteria, as well as rats. Plus meat makes compost heaps smell horrible. Healthy compost heaps don't smell bad.

My compost bin has been bricked down as my dog loved to knock it over and help himself to a second breakfast of rotting pumpkin and potato skins.

[RubyStar]

This is a perfect illustration of why "obedience training" and "behaviour modification" should not be considered to be an automatically complementary set of skills. Having an OC Obedience dog doesn't necessarily mean you know anything about modifying unwanted self rewarding dog behaviour. Hell I can think of at least one multi state title winning obedience trialler whose dogs could not be reliably recalled under even low distraction outside the ring. Conversely, I can think of very talented behaviorists who will never darken a trialling ring.

Agree with this!! Not saying it isn't possible, there are some fantastic trainers that are good at both, but I don't believe for a second that just because you do obedience trialling with a dog and get to a decent level that you know everything there is to know about behaviour.

Edited August 27, 2010 by RubyStar

[rastus_froggy]

Nothing really useful to say, but maybe stick your dog on a plane and she may be able to help dig those poor miners out

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

meat in compost bins also attract european wasps