For Those Interested - Puppy Farm Code Meeting

[Steve]

Steve, is the discussion about definition of "puppy farmer" designed to bring byb under the umbrella?

Whilst not for a minute negating the large or organised commercial enterprise issue, IMO a large amount of the problems comes from joe blow public throwing (either deliberately or simply through lack of desexing) two dogs together and either selling or giving away the progeny.

Giving an example of a breed I am familiar with I would bet my bottom dollar that the thousands of "staffies" who end up in pounds each year are largely not bred by the DD brigade or large enterprises but by BYB. I have had people approach me when walking my DESEXED staffy cross and ask if I am going to breed with him (on one occasion they called him a her ).

I think this is a huge issue in terms of dog welfare and can only hope this would be part of any deliberations. That said, I just do not see how it could be policed, short of door knocking.

There are thousands of dogs out there in suburbia having miserable lives without their owners necessarily being breeders for profit.

Yes the definition is designed to describe anyone who breeds any dogs in substandard conditions. That includes purebred breeders, BYB, cross bred breeders, hobby breeders or commercial breeders.

[WreckitWhippet]

"substandard conditions "

what exactly does that mean ?

I think it will come down to, if your don't have a DA approved kennel set up, then it will be considered substandard. Pups whelped in the safety and comfort of your home, will be a thing of the past. Just wait until we start getting pinged for whelping and raising them in our spare rooms and loungerooms. The RSPCA won't care, that we provide a safe place for the bitches, close to the family and their pack and that the pups are raised with love n care and are socialised in a way that couldn;t be done from a kennel.

[Sasha (Alexander)]

What is the thinking behind not allowing a dog to whelp inside a house?

Especially if we are talking about toy breeds who have a much harder time dealing with the elements outside.

[Little Gifts]

Am I reading this differently to other people? I thought this was about puppy farms/mills and not about pet owners or registered breeders? I didn't think registered breeders would come under the same definition as 'puppy farm'? Most breeders would be hard up to create and sell that many puppies each year and I thought came under their own codes already. Have I misread or misunderstood the purpose of this document?

And Steve where to from here? What is now proposed re the desired outcomes and suggestions for moving forward?

[asal]

how funny, looks like so many of you if the above three posts are any indication are beginning to twig, yep folks your all backyarders, every single one of you have a backyard.

these guys dont care a fig how ethical and caring YOU! ..................... THINK YOU ARE.

you are breeding dogs, YOU ARE A SICK PUPPY. you are on the hit list.

its a bit like when dunlop took over alcorso, every one in alcorso went to work every day wondering whos going to be fired today. sort of kills the workplace ambiance.

now its the dogie worlds turn,

enjoy

Edited August 27, 2010 by asal

[asal]

or could we actually hope for a miracle and the likes of puggy wuggy actually come to the defence of ..........................................

that members actually stop backbiting each other and 'UNITE'

dont think it might be a good idea for my health to hold my breath waiting for that

Edited August 27, 2010 by asal

[Steve]

You need to take special attention to the definition of a puppy farmer. Its not what the majority of people think is a puppy farmer. How many you breed or own has NOTHING to do with it.

Ive just had a very lengthy chat with Angela Thompson who is the lady in charge of this section with NSW - DPI.

The business of breeding dogs is defined in the act.

Anyone who who sells for fee or reward a puppy or dog. Note that means even if you don't get any money for selling a pup if you get anything for handing a pup to someone else you are considered to be in the business of breeding dogs. So even if you only ever breed one litter - unless you keep them all you are in the business of breeding dogs.

That includes rescue so thats why the RSPCA Can enforce laws for the concrete in pens for a rescue group.

This is very important - because even though the ATO definition for being in the business of is one the breeding of dogs is miles away from this - all that matters for us is that under the law anyone who has a litter of puppies falls under the mandatory code for breeding dogs.

Next - the local councils have to go along with the DPI definition of someone in the business of breeding dogs and while the vicinity a dog has to be housed under doesn't come under DPI or local councils companion animals issues it does come under development plans and is a development matter. So if they want to press the point they can tell you that you need a Development application for breeding dogs even if you only intend to or do breed one dog and that goes for anyone involved in rescue too. then they have to kept 15 metres from a dwelling.

thats about as clear as mud.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Steve

[Little Gifts]

So in effect this would create a huge fricking mess and instead of law enforcers focussing on the evil puppy farmers they would spend their time breaching people having maybe one litter of puppies or housing dogs inappropriately? A one size fits all approach? What happened to some common sense? Are they scared to upset puppy farmers by targeting them? So everyone has to suffer?

I don't breed, don't intend to breed but can still see this misses the point of what we worry about the most. I feel so naive thinking this looked quite good initially. Deep sigh. Bangs head on desk.

Actually that Sesame Street song is now stuck in my head "One of these things is not like the other...."

[Steve]

So in effect this would create a huge fricking mess and instead of law enforcers focussing on the evil puppy farmers they would spend their time breaching people having maybe one litter of puppies or housing dogs inappropriately? A one size fits all approach? What happened to some common sense? Are they scared to upset puppy farmers by targeting them? So everyone has to suffer?

I don't breed, don't intend to breed but can still see this misses the point of what we worry about the most. I feel so naive thinking this looked quite good initially. Deep sigh. Bangs head on desk.

Actually that Sesame Street song is now stuck in my head "One of these things is not like the other...."

Sort of except you cant assume that because someone falls into one group or the other that they are doing it right.

Like it or not the reality is that some people who only breed registered dogs do a pretty rotten job some who breed only a litter a year the same.

According to the new Australian pet Dog Breeders Association some who breed hundreds of dogs a year can be doing it all pretty well and are not considered puppy farmers.

Making money doesn't equal puppy farming under this definition.

[asal]

know what u mean steve.

phil burgess of elfreda kennels had a setup that could be defined as the gold standard and that was 30 years ago, double meshed outside runs as well decades before anyone realised heartworm had arrived in sydney after cyclone tracy, none of hers were in any danger anyway.

i understand they bred up round a hundred in a year. i saw more sound self whelped puppies there over the years than so many other show orientated people who despised her.

Edited August 27, 2010 by asal

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I think it will come down to, if your don't have a DA approved kennel set up, then it will be considered substandard. Pups whelped in the safety and comfort of your home, will be a thing of the past. Just wait until we start getting pinged for whelping and raising them in our spare rooms and loungerooms. The RSPCA won't care, that we provide a safe place for the bitches, close to the family and their pack and that the pups are raised with love n care and are socialised in a way that couldn;t be done from a kennel.

When Ian Dunbar was out here last he talked a lot about the importance of buying a family pet from someone who had whelped and raised the litter in a family home.

[WreckitWhippet]

I think it will come down to, if your don't have a DA approved kennel set up, then it will be considered substandard. Pups whelped in the safety and comfort of your home, will be a thing of the past. Just wait until we start getting pinged for whelping and raising them in our spare rooms and loungerooms. The RSPCA won't care, that we provide a safe place for the bitches, close to the family and their pack and that the pups are raised with love n care and are socialised in a way that couldn;t be done from a kennel.

When Ian Dunbar was out here last he talked a lot about the importance of buying a family pet from someone who had whelped and raised the litter in a family home.

It goes against everything I've ever read, been taught or learned along the way, when it comes to raising puppies. I raise mine in the home and give them the absolute best start that I can, as many of the pups are destined to become a member of someone's family.

I don't think that I could achieve the well rounded and social pups that I know I can raise now, if I had to do it from a kennel out the back.

The reality is that me and my family live in the home and no matter how much time I tried to dedicate to a litter, if I raised them in a kennel, I would never be able to replicate the experience that they have in the home.

Edited August 27, 2010 by ReadySetGo