Leg Injury

[ncarter]

Ok guys I was after some advice.

On Saturday I was at the park with my dog. He was running in a straight line to pick up a ball. Then it looks like his right knee buckled and he did a somersault and then he was really sore and couldnt walk. I felt his leg and it looked like it was really stiff and the whole leg/hip looked like it was facing more inward more than it should. At first I thought he may have done some structural damage to his knee. So I held him up on his hind legs and he was able to put weight on his leg without any obvious pain. So then I was thinking maybe he had hurt his hip. Anyway it gradually improved and he didnt seem to be in much pain (he is normally a sook), so I decided i would give it a few days to see how it went before taking him to the vet. Now I cant see any structural differences between the 2 hindlegs. He seems 95% right and is gaiting normally, its just everynow and again he looks a bit stiff and ginger on this one leg. He is not too sore to chase birds or get on the couch. So now im thinking maybe its a muscular tear or strain. I just dont know whether I should wait it out a few more days or go to the vet today. Because I was thinking if its a muscular thing what can the vet do anyway..

Any help would be much appreciated

[poodlefan]

Is your dog a Pap?

A patella luxation could produce the results you describe. I'd recommend a vet visit.

The other option is that your dog simply got wrong footed or stepped in a hole.

[ncarter]

yep he is a pap. I just dont know as there seemed to be no heat or pain in the joint after it happened

Edited August 26, 2010 by ncarter

[Everythings Shiny]

I agree with poodlefan on this one

[ncarter]

thanks guys. Im taking him in for an x-ray on monday. He is on anti-inflammatories and it has improved a bit but its stil not quite right. The vet thinks it might be a cruciate ligament injury.

The other thing i have to decide is apparently they could repair the knee at the same time as they do the x-ray. To save on 2 GA's i guess. Im not sure whether to just find out whats wrong with the knee first and then decide on what to do or just get it all done at the same time.

[persephone]

2-in-1 sounds a good option to me - provided the vet is good at this type of surgery ;)Not every vet is a surgeon- some are much better diagnosticians.... and some are not real good at either

[ncarter]

thanks for that persephone. it will be interesting to find out whats wrong. He doesnt seem to be in any pain. Do you think he would be in less pain if the ligament was totally torn as opposed to just a small tear?

[Everythings Shiny]

Depends on the dog, but I'd say in less pain with a ligament totally torn. if it was just a small tear there would be the constant strain on it, where as it's fully torn - can't tear any further and less strain - But i could be wrong on that

[Golden Rules]

Well I know your dog is tiny and my dog is big, but either way, dogs are so stoic, they just don't complain about pain.

Which vet do you use? East Freo? My vet did both cruciates for Dougal for $1500 a piece and the Xray was about $500.

However, most vets will be able to give you a good idea if it's a cruciate tear prior to an Xray. So if your vet reckons it is a torn cruciate and they can operate at the same time as doing the Xray, I'd go for it. Less worry and stress all round on both you and the dog.

Whatever you do, hope it all goes OK.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Golden Rules

[persephone]

He doesnt seem to be in any pain.

if he is not walking normally, if he is limping - he has pain Dogs don't think about having pain- they just LIVE and accommodate it .

[ncarter]

Well I know your dog is tiny and my dog is big, but either way, dogs are so stoic, they just don't complain about pain.

Which vet do you use? East Freo? My vet did both cruciates for Dougal for $1500 a piece and the Xray was about $500.

However, most vets will be able to give you a good idea if it's a cruciate tear prior to an Xray. So if your vet reckons it is a torn cruciate and they can operate at the same time as doing the Xray, I'd go for it. Less worry and stress all round on both you and the dog.

Whatever you do, hope it all goes OK.

im using the south st one as I like them and the price seems to be reasonable. The vet seems to think its a cruciate ligament as the patella seems ok. which vet do you use GR?

[RallyValley]

Nothing helpfull to say except I hope your little one isn't too bad nick!

[stormie]

If they think it's the ACL, they should be able to tell you without xrays. It's diagnosed by feeling for drawer in the knee which should otherwise be stable. I've had dogs where when conscious, get no draw from the knee but as soon as they're sedated there's tonnes of drawer and a very obvious complete tear.

[ncarter]

ah ok thanks. The vet didnt get him on his back and do the drawer test, she just flexed and prodded the knee with him standing

[Golden Rules]

ah ok thanks. The vet didnt get him on his back and do the drawer test, she just flexed and prodded the knee with him standing

Julian at Vic Park. He is great. And it seems a lot of vets do Xray while diagnosing cruciate ligament tears - whether the xray is to rule out something else I don't know but it seems very common and necessary. In fact I think you would find any orthopaedic surgeon would do an Xray before such surgery be it human or canine.

[Rappie]

Although we can get a good idea of whether a cruciate ligament injury is likely from a conscious exam, we can get more information from an examination under sedation or anaesthesia. When performing a cranial drawer test on some dogs with partial tears, we might get a strong reaction, or a mild reaction from the dog but often all we can tell is that "it hurts when we perform a cranial drawer test". A small partial tear can be painful, but might not mean immediate surgery is required. A full tear might not be very painful, but the dog might be very tense which will affect how much movement we can detect in the joint.

The xrays are not for the cruciate ligament specifically but for other information like whether there are arthritic changes in the affected joint, measuring the angles of bones involved in the joint as well as getting an idea of the anatomy of the hips. All of these things affect decisions regarding surgery - whether a technique such as TTA or TPLO is more appropriate than a De Angelis procedure, whether there are concurrent problems like hip dysplasia or an issue with conformation (medial or lateral patella luxation) that causes instability in the joint and may also require surgical correction etc.

[Golden Rules]

Although we can get a good idea of whether a cruciate ligament injury is likely from a conscious exam, we can get more information from an examination under sedation or anaesthesia. When performing a cranial drawer test on some dogs with partial tears, we might get a strong reaction, or a mild reaction from the dog but often all we can tell is that "it hurts when we perform a cranial drawer test". A small partial tear can be painful, but might not mean immediate surgery is required. A full tear might not be very painful, but the dog might be very tense which will affect how much movement we can detect in the joint.

The xrays are not for the cruciate ligament specifically but for other information like whether there are arthritic changes in the affected joint, measuring the angles of bones involved in the joint as well as getting an idea of the anatomy of the hips. All of these things affect decisions regarding surgery - whether a technique such as TTA or TPLO is more appropriate than a De Angelis procedure, whether there are concurrent problems like hip dysplasia or an issue with conformation (medial or lateral patella luxation) that causes instability in the joint and may also require surgical correction etc.

Fantastic information Rappie, thank you!

[ncarter]

Julian at Vic Park. He is great. And it seems a lot of vets do Xray while diagnosing cruciate ligament tears - whether the xray is to rule out something else I don't know but it seems very common and necessary. In fact I think you would find any orthopaedic surgeon would do an Xray before such surgery be it human or canine.

ah thanks for that GR. The vet also said they would need to rule out a small facture in the leg.

Although we can get a good idea of whether a cruciate ligament injury is likely from a conscious exam, we can get more information from an examination under sedation or anaesthesia. When performing a cranial drawer test on some dogs with partial tears, we might get a strong reaction, or a mild reaction from the dog but often all we can tell is that "it hurts when we perform a cranial drawer test". A small partial tear can be painful, but might not mean immediate surgery is required. A full tear might not be very painful, but the dog might be very tense which will affect how much movement we can detect in the joint.

The xrays are not for the cruciate ligament specifically but for other information like whether there are arthritic changes in the affected joint, measuring the angles of bones involved in the joint as well as getting an idea of the anatomy of the hips. All of these things affect decisions regarding surgery - whether a technique such as TTA or TPLO is more appropriate than a De Angelis procedure, whether there are concurrent problems like hip dysplasia or an issue with conformation (medial or lateral patella luxation) that causes instability in the joint and may also require surgical correction etc.

Oh thanks for the info Dr. V

Edited September 15, 2010 by ncarter

[OSoSwift]

Good luck I hope he is okay. Does sound rather like a cruciate. Hopefully it isn't and with rest he can recover.

A little while ago I had a back leg lameness injury with Rommi. It was really hard to pinpoint, we tried rest, anti inflammatories. After some time the vet asked me to exercise her then take her in as she was never very sore there but on three legs from time to time here. They thought there was some pain in her Gracilus Muscle but were not sure. A few weeks later I saw a hard boney lump inside her hind leg near her knee. I freaked slightly. Took her to the vet and she basically had tendonitis of the ligament that connects the Gracilus muscle to the bone. More rest and DMSO roll on and so far it is all good. Sometimes these things can be a bit tricky to pin point, but any gait change means they are experiencing some sort of discomfort or pain.

Fingers crossed for your little guy.

[ncarter]

thanks rommi, yes it is a bit tricky. Rest and anti-inflammatories seemed to have helped, and its becoming harder to tell he has a problem.