Any Advice For Aggresive Gsd

[Staranais]

Clicker training won't solve the issues of every aggressive dog, especially not when used by a novice or unskilled trainer. I took my old dog (dangerously dog aggressive) to community obedience classes & used clicker with him when I first got him, on the advice of some volunteer trainers, and it made his aggressive outbursts worse.

Neither will any book have the solution for every aggressive dog, especially when the advice is applied by a novice or unskilled trainer.

I would really recommend that you see a good behaviourist who is experienced at dealing with aggression - hopefully someone here can recommend one they have used successfully.

Seeing a bad behaviourist is a waste of money. I have wasted lots of money on behaviourists over the years. Get personal recommendations when choosing your behaviourist. Don't just go with the first behaviourist who claims to have the solution to aggression, or who has a flashy website with lots of testimonials, since they will quite possibly take your money & not fix your problem. It doesn't really matter what techniques they use, as long as they have a history of happy customers & good results with aggressive dogs.

& please listen to K9Pro, he knows what he's talking about.

[megan_]

Some people must be glancing over Control Unleashed, and not really taking it in!

She points out that you need to address the root cause of the problem and things like clickers don't address these.

I love CU, but I have used it in consultation with a behaviourist who has seen my dog (and she doesn't even have aggression issues, which are much more serious).

When Leslie (can't remember if she is the author?) wrote that book, I'm sure she didn't intend for people to use snippets of it to give advice about dogs that they have never seen.

To the OP - I got 2 hours of time from a qualified behaviourist + unlimited email support (and I still email her a year on!) for $195.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Some people must be glancing over Control Unleashed, and not really taking it in!

She points out that you need to address the root cause of the problem and things like clickers don't address these.

I love CU, but I have used it in consultation with a behaviourist who has seen my dog (and she doesn't even have aggression issues, which are much more serious).

When Leslie (can't remember if she is the author?) wrote that book, I'm sure she didn't intend for people to use snippets of it to give advice about dogs that they have never seen.

To the OP - I got 2 hours of time from a qualified behaviourist + unlimited email support (and I still email her a year on!) for $195.

no this is not correct.

what is being said is it is dangerous to try to advise someone in this situation over the net and that the OP would be better served getting in a behaviouralist/trainer who knows how to deal with dog aggression rather than take advice from unqualified people who have never seen the dogs in action.

[Nekhbet]

I agree with Beagie, I train using reward based training and love the control unleashed book.

If it was my dogs i would be trying to find a dog club that did one on one clicker training lessons as well as small group training. This way you can start off doing the one on ones then join the group classes when you are ready to help socialise your dog.

You really need to start taking your dogs out walking again but definately one at a time and somewhere without dogs around until you are happy you have some control back. I would also think about getting a non pull harness or halti if you are still just using a collar. Remember if your dog is tired out by walking or training its going to be a lot more relaxed around the house.

oh my god. Are people purposely putting dangerous information up or is this a joke?

The dog has issues that needs a qualified behaviourist NOT a dog club. From what I can try and gleam seems like the previous advice has increased the behaviour and the e-collar use is ill timed and at the wrong stimulus level. The household dynamics have also not been addressed hence the dogs reacting the way they do. Big difference between TRAINING and BEHAVIOURAL TRAINING.

If the dogs need exercise, get an old treadmill and run them on that out in the garage or some other room. One dog at a time in the room. Wear them out that way at least its safe and will poop them out well and truely.

Separation until you can afford to fix the problem, yes. In the meantime the only reading I would be providing is www.leerburg.com, do not IMPLEMENT simply read up on dog behaviour and dominant/aggressive dogs. It also has advice on dog fights, separation etc.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I agree with Beagie, I train using reward based training and love the control unleashed book.

If it was my dogs i would be trying to find a dog club that did one on one clicker training lessons as well as small group training. This way you can start off doing the one on ones then join the group classes when you are ready to help socialise your dog.

You really need to start taking your dogs out walking again but definately one at a time and somewhere without dogs around until you are happy you have some control back. I would also think about getting a non pull harness or halti if you are still just using a collar. Remember if your dog is tired out by walking or training its going to be a lot more relaxed around the house.

oh my god. Are people purposely putting dangerous information up or is this a joke?

The dog has issues that needs a qualified behaviourist NOT a dog club. From what I can try and gleam seems like the previous advice has increased the behaviour and the e-collar use is ill timed and at the wrong stimulus level. The household dynamics have also not been addressed hence the dogs reacting the way they do. Big difference between TRAINING and BEHAVIOURAL TRAINING.

If the dogs need exercise, get an old treadmill and run them on that out in the garage or some other room. One dog at a time in the room. Wear them out that way at least its safe and will poop them out well and truely.

Separation until you can afford to fix the problem, yes. In the meantime the only reading I would be providing is www.leerburg.com, do not IMPLEMENT simply read up on dog behaviour and dominant/aggressive dogs. It also has advice on dog fights, separation etc.

i agree nekhbet

i am finding some of the advice given in this thread very concerning.

[charlie mouse]

yet again i am sorry i posted i really should know better by now but i just want defuse the rants by adding

Yes agreed some clubs are run by volunteers and dont have behaviourists but the club i go to has a behaviourist and has paid staff so its not all.

Agreed nobody can give 100 % correct advice without seeing the dog and you really need to see a good behaviourist before trying anything else yourself.

[Nekhbet]

Yes agreed some clubs are run by volunteers and dont have behaviourists but the club i go to has a behaviourist and has paid staff so its not all.

The reason home visits are better for situations like this

1) safety of the dog and owner

2) you can get a true picture of the dogs behaviour in its natural daily environment not an hour a week artificial one that can bring out totally different reactions

3) the behaviourist can assess the living arrangements of the dogs and see what can be done to modify them in a way the owner can cope with

At my club we get highly aggressive dogs or problem dogs. Sometimes though I still prefer to go see the dog in its daily environement and take the time to set the foundations properly THEN get them coming to dog school when the owners have some more skills and confidence there is method to my madness lol

[beagie]

I have recently been reading a book called control unleashed, I think you will find most of your answers there. The next thing I will say if you have a GSD club in reach go to i , they are qualified to deal with the breed. I know you need to mix with other breeds also however your own breed club should have a wealth of knowledge.

K9: I am sorry but this is bad advice.

Number 1, no one is going to read any book and be any where near qualified to deal with aggression from any dog.

Number 2, most clubs are staffed by volunteer instructors, not behaviourists and they are not qualified to deal with aggression, nor is what clubs or breeds clubs are designed for.

Your dog is being reactive because it has been allowed to flip the barriers of being on a high, it needs calming down

sit down massage the dog talk to it and get it into a calm state before you try to do aything with it. Then commence your training or whatever ten

minutes a day can make big improvements.

K9: Beagie there is no way you can diagnose what is going on with this dog, at best it is a guess, I would also suggest it is a bad guess.

okay in the first place you don't know what I am qualified at, Even volunteer instructors should have some idea of how to handle agression, I was under

the impression that is what breed clubs are for, at least they are where I live. End of conversation in person I would be happy to discuss it further Beagie

There is safety and welfare of people and dogs at stake in this thread, I would warn you not to give advice your not qualified to give, you could get someone badly hurt.

[ChristineX]

I'd recommend Kathy's dog training & behaviour consulting - she is good at handling agression related problems.

Let me know if you would like her email/phone number.

There is an initial fee for the consultation (it is not a by the hour deal!) and she will let you know what she thinks you need to do, how long it would take to fix the problems etc. and you can then go from there and decide how you want to proceed.

[persephone]

Even volunteer instructors should have some idea of how to handle agression, I was under

the impression that is what breed clubs are for, at least they are where I live.

A GP , for example can diagnose and treat a lot of things, however, for specifics, there are specialists. I see this is a similar thing .. for potentially dangerous/serious behavioural problems, a one-on-one consult in the home environment with an experienced professional may provide the better help.

[poodlefan]

Beagie:

Even volunteer instructors should have some idea of how to handle agression,

As a volunteer instructor my first reaction to this issue would be to refer the owner to a qualified professional. Most ordinary dog trainers know better than to try to assist on behavioural issues for which they are not qualified to advise. A person fronting up to my club with a highly reactive dog would be quietly advised to take it home and consult a professional. Group classes are no place for an aggressive dog. It doesn't help the dog and it certainly doesn't assist the instructor to help others in the class to train theirs.

Given that one of the dogs doesn't appear to be purebred, why would a breed club be the appropriate place to seek advice. Breed clubs are for fanciers, not behaviourists.

[Kavik]

Volunteer instructors are there to help a group of people teach their dogs specific behaviours. A dog with aggression problems is going to make an instructor's work very difficult if not impossible. You can't spend the whole session with just the one dog to help them deal with the problem, and it would be very disruptive to the rest of the class to have the dog reacting throughout the class. Much better to get one on one instruction from someone who knows a lot about dealing with aggressive dogs then when this has been implemented and strategies in place and the dog has improved to take it to classes if that is what the owner wants to do.

[mum01753]

Beagie thank you for reply and information, i will look into the book, but i im thinking im gonna have to find the money some how and find a behaviourist, even if it takes me a few months to save for it.

[mum01753]

There will be someone from WA on here who can recommend a qualified behaviorist that deals with aggression.

Maybe sell the E collar to get the money?

That would be great i live in the Armadale area, any suggestions please.

[mum01753]

I'd recommend Kathy's dog training & behaviour consulting - she is good at handling agression related problems.

Let me know if you would like her email/phone number.

There is an initial fee for the consultation (it is not a by the hour deal!) and she will let you know what she thinks you need to do, how long it would take to fix the problems etc. and you can then go from there and decide how you want to proceed.

Yes please i would love the email/number i can at least call and see how much i need to save.

[mum01753]

Thank you all, any recommendations from anyone who has used a behaviouist in wa please? and how much did it cost you?

I did take my puppy to gsd club to the reactive class, but because she was not a purebreed they looked down thier noses at us and just kept telling me i was ripped off, chatting to the others and telling them made me feel very stupid and bad.

im afraid i would never go back there.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Beagie: Even volunteer instructors should have some idea of how to handle agression

Yeah, I know how to handle it. Refer to a professional.

Most of us volunteers are good at teaching dogs to sit on their mat, recall, stay, etc. All the usual house manners that people want when they enrol in basic obedience.

I would not pretend to be an agility or tracking instructor, and likewise, when it comes to bitch on bitch aggression involving backyard bred GSDs I know am so far out of my league it's not funny.

[corvus]

As much as I love clickers and CU, I don't think either would help much on their own in behavioural modification. You have to actually know why the behaviour is occurring IMO. Otherwise you're just stumbling around in the dark hitting things and hoping you hit the right thing eventually and not break anything else while you're trying.

I would get a vet behaviourist's opinion if you can. Feuding females in the same house is very scary. Very, very scary. Let us hope that is not what is budding amongst other things, but a behaviourist would be able to identify the most likely causes for the behaviour, and that means you'll be treating the right thing rather than what you hope is the right thing. If you treat the wrong thing you don't know what's gonna happen. Maybe it'll work for a while through some indirect effect, maybe it won't do a thing, maybe it will make it worse, maybe it'll change things you didn't want to change. I don't think that's a risk worth taking when dogs are getting injured and such.

Poor things sound scared. Hope you can get some help.

[Skye GSD]

Thank you all, any recommendations from anyone who has used a behaviouist in wa please? and how much did it cost you?

I did take my puppy to gsd club to the reactive class, but because she was not a purebreed they looked down thier noses at us and just kept telling me i was ripped off, chatting to the others and telling them made me feel very stupid and bad.

im afraid i would never go back there.

You are not the only one who has had this problem with the GSD club - 4 out of a class of 7 have pulled out for exactly the same reason. Think it is really sad as 80% of GSD puppies are sold as pets and we all want the best for our dogs. After all, how your dog behaves in public is the best advertisement for your breed (any breed) so I cannot understand the inability to supply this to the owners who want a well-trained dog but not neccessarily enter the obedience ring.

I now have a personal trainer and will consult with her before giving you her phone no. I live in the Baldivis area and know that she travels all over Perth.

[Rusky]

I did take my puppy to gsd club to the reactive class, but because she was not a purebreed they looked down thier noses at us and just kept telling me i was ripped off, chatting to the others and telling them made me feel very stupid and bad

that is really really sad. I have sent you a PM and will try to find someone to help you. I know most of the crew at GSDA. I will speak to them about this problem as their policy is that a dog which looks like a GSD is more then welcome. I have been down there when they hold reactive classes on another matter and the classes seem to be going very well indeed.They certainly would not have advised you to get an electric collar. I hate that you guys have this perception of the club and I am guessing they need to do something to address the problem.