Baby Attacked By Family Terrier While Crawling On Floor Of Home

[TsarsMum]

my point is that there was no one apart from on here say that this child was unsupervised with the dog.

alot of conclusion jumping without real 1st hand knowlage of what happened.

[poodlefan]

my point is that there was no one apart from on here say that this child was unsupervised with the dog.

alot of conclusion jumping without real 1st hand knowlage of what happened.

How about "the child was not effectively supervised with the dog".

A leading Australian paediatrician spoke at a child safety conference a few years back.

He said that the records show that the leading reason for dog bites on children was "lack of effective parental supervision".

In the room with the dog and the baby or not, the supervision was not effective. I don't need first hand knowledge of the event to support THAT conclusion.

I don't blame the dog or the child.. that doesn't leave many other options.

[PaddyForever]

Why is it that everyone else always assumes that they would have reacted differently, or been able to prevent, such an incident?! Most of us know, or should know, that young children, indeed up probably into their teens in some cases, cannot interperete a dog's body language correctly. Some dog owners cannot read said body language either. Just as some dogs do not give many warning signs before an attack and their interpretation of a child's inadvertant body language can often not be foreseen, either. A dog who has given no previous signs of aggression, may react to a suddenly perceived threat, such as a squealing, crawling, child. It does not mean that there was any jelousy involved, or that the dog was just 'waiting for the right time to attack', or that it was because the dog was a terrier breed! It does not mean that the parents were not vigilant, or that they were not right there when it happened. A dog can bite several times before a person could even hope to react. And a young child's face is usually the unfortunate recipient of an attack, because their face is at the dog's level. Usually, an attack will just be a 'back off, you're scaring me!' warning, but this can also cause quite a bit of damage! The only way to totally prevent such an incident, is to never allow children in close proximity to any dog, including our own. And how many of us have never allowed our children to be around our dogs? I know that I have, and I try to be as vigilant as possible. My dogs are breeds that are reknowned for their excellent temperaments, but that does not mean that an incident could not occur. Children are unpredictable. I never allow contact between my dogs and a crawling baby, because babies have grabbing fingers that could hurt the dog and cause an unfavourable reaction, and as even tempered as my dogs are, it is not worth the risk. Still, if something bad happened, I would hope that I wouldn't be blasted for being 'careless', or 'ignorant', when I am not, knowing that no-one could be more upset than me about it. I was once observing my four-year-old at play with my dogs, outside, when she ran past my old dog, who was almost deaf and fast asleep. As she ran past, she tripped, and fell beside him. Startled, probably by feeling the vibration through the ground, as she hadn't yet touched him, he turned with a snarl, and grabbed her on the arm. He let go just as quickly, but as I swept her up into my arms, her arm was already bruising, and his teeth had just broken the surface of her skin. My husband came running out of the house, hearing our daughter screaming and crying, and when I explained, he was hollering about how I should have been watching and about that 'stupid, nasty old so and so.' Well, I had been watching, and I know for certain that the dog would never have bitten my daughter if he'd been aware of what had been happening. In his pre-deaf days, he had never, ever, bitten anybody, animal or human, or ever shown any aggression towards anything. It had been an accident, and when my husband calmed down, he realised that. Afterwards, I locked my old dog away when the children played outside, although my daughter was a lot more careful never to run too close to a dog in future. That was something I had always warned against, but it was sad that she had to learn that way. Just please, let us not jump to conclusions and blame the parents, who must be feeling terrible. I know that I cried for the day after what happened to my daughter, and that the bruise on her arm that lasted weeks, kept reminding me that something far worse could have happened. And between a dog that I loved(I lost him a short while later, at a grand old age) almost as much as a child, even though I knew he was a dog and treated him as such, and a little girl that I would give my life to keep safe.

[poodlefan]

Why is it that everyone else always assumes that they would have reacted differently, or been able to prevent, such an incident?!

Children are unpredictable. I never allow contact between my dogs and a crawling baby, because babies have grabbing fingers that could hurt the dog and cause an unfavourable reaction, and as even tempered as my dogs are, it is not worth the risk.

In other words, you would not have done what these parents did. You too, would have acted differently.

It does not mean that there was any jelousy involved, or that the dog was just 'waiting for the right time to attack', or that it was because the dog was a terrier breed!

Show me a breed bred to use its teeth in its work and I'll show you a breed with a lower than average trigger to bite and/or potentially a lower than average bite inhibition. Sure all dogs can bite but some bite more than others. Breed DOES matter. What matters more is socialisation and supervision with children.

Edited August 30, 2010 by poodlefan

[Monah]

I don't know what type of terrier was involved, but terriers have MASSIVE canines, even a small terrier can have larger teeth than a large dog Poor baby

[Souff]

Sure all dogs can bite but some bite more than others.

Just thinking of the old days when such dogs sometimes had names like "Fang" or "Nipper". The same people often had a black cat called "Nigger". The name often told a story ..... Oh dear, how very un_PC.

Of course, we live in a more enlightened world today and go to puppy classes and such like and some don't like to think that a terrier or a spitz or a dachsie (or a cross) or a blue heeler or whatever might do what comes naturally, given the chance.

Souff

Edited August 30, 2010 by Souff

[Guest]

Souff, you make a lot of sense in everything you say, we really do need to treat a dog as a dog, and after reading this site in depth on how dogs think, and after applying some of the principles to our Lab starting today,I have noticed, a difference in him already,he seems a much calmer dog.

I think this site is brilliant.

lablove

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/humandog.htm

[aussielover]

In what way do you think people treat their dogs like humans do you think?

I call my dog "baby" and other silly names but I am aware of the fact she is a dog, in fact she is a working dog.

I let her sleep in my room and she has lots of toys but she treated like a dog (imo) and expected to work for her privileges.

[lanabanana]

I Agree aussielover. I call my dogs my kids or my babies and we call ourselves mum and dad. They are spoilt in some ways, but they also are treated like dogs not little humans.

I also agree with some of the other comments about supervision. We don't know there was a lack of supervision and IMO, you should be able to let a baby crawl round a dog whilst you are in the room.

I am a terrible owner, my daughter has been going round the dogs semi unsupervised since she was about 2. She is now 11 and it is her job to feed the dogs their evening meal - which she does alone. My daughter has always gone out in the back yard to play with the dogs by herself (geeze, with all the "im a terrible owner" posts I make, I'd say I have probably fully ruined my chances of getting a dog via DOL LMAO)

I grew up playing in the backyard with a dog by myself or with my siblings and so did many of my freinds and I dont recall all these dog attacks back then.

[asal]

I Agree aussielover. I call my dogs my kids or my babies and we call ourselves mum and dad. They are spoilt in some ways, but they also are treated like dogs not little humans.

I also agree with some of the other comments about supervision. We don't know there was a lack of supervision and IMO, you should be able to let a baby crawl round a dog whilst you are in the room.

I am a terrible owner, my daughter has been going round the dogs semi unsupervised since she was about 2. She is now 11 and it is her job to feed the dogs their evening meal - which she does alone. My daughter has always gone out in the back yard to play with the dogs by herself (geeze, with all the "im a terrible owner" posts I make, I'd say I have probably fully ruined my chances of getting a dog via DOL LMAO)

I grew up playing in the backyard with a dog by myself or with my siblings and so did many of my freinds and I dont recall all these dog attacks back then.

you have a point.

my brothers and i grew up with dogs, i wheeled a foxy in my pram, i never was allowed past the front gate without blue the cattledog being beside me. the guard dogs my dad and his brothers had bought for one reason only. Savage. most of them tended to be german shepherds. although the blue cattles usually turned out the friendliest n smartest. n tended to be kept at granddads. the funniest thing was how quickly the dogs learned it was ok to let people walk in, it was ok to let em walk out, long as they werent carrying anything.

the rule was dad or his brothers would load your goods in your vehicle n u were fine. dont carry anything yourself or the dogs would have u. n it was amazing how quick the cattledogs learned that?

they had a building supply company and there were no security alarms in the 40's n 50's

there were four of us born and lived beside the business (before we moved when i was about 13) and never once were any of us bitten by the guard dogs, there were usually two in granddads place, n most of em arrived cross chained, we learned from a very early age, dont touch the guard dog, well until they got to settle in and know us. blue was so savage my dad and his brothers were petrified of him, but he loved mum and he soon decided if we were mum's then yep hed guard us too. whenever i was sent on an errand it was with blue beside me, the funniest thing was anyone comming the other way on the footpath always crossed the road to go past us. blue had a rule. no comming within 20 foot , the teeth would become easier and easier to see the closer they came, none kept comming, they all heeded the warning and crossed the road.

although the most savage went to the quarry n we wernt allowed out of the truck there until dad had put them away.

one was so savage it was funny to see the game dad played to get him locked up without being munched. he had it down pretty well.

although a few years down the track they were on reasonable terms dont think i can remember dad ever patting that one though. come to think of it all the quarry dogs i can remember were german shepherds?

the funniest thing ever happend was the vet came to give em all their distemper shots and after he finished dad picked up his bag to carry it to the car, n he insisted only he carry his bag. dad explained that he would be bitten if he didnt let dad carry the bag.

vet got huffy and said no dog had ever bitten him and headed for his car.

then had the hide to demand dad pay for a new suit because blue had taken the backside out of his pants and ripped his coat.... dad laughed for months, well years over that one

ummm imagine the court case today come to think of it.

Edited August 30, 2010 by asal

[Souff]

I Agree aussielover. I call my dogs my kids or my babies and we call ourselves mum and dad. They are spoilt in some ways, but they also are treated like dogs not little humans.

I also agree with some of the other comments about supervision. We don't know there was a lack of supervision and IMO, you should be able to let a baby crawl round a dog whilst you are in the room.

I am a terrible owner, my daughter has been going round the dogs semi unsupervised since she was about 2. She is now 11 and it is her job to feed the dogs their evening meal - which she does alone. My daughter has always gone out in the back yard to play with the dogs by herself (geeze, with all the "im a terrible owner" posts I make, I'd say I have probably fully ruined my chances of getting a dog via DOL LMAO)

I grew up playing in the backyard with a dog by myself or with my siblings and so did many of my freinds and I dont recall all these dog attacks back then.

Lanabanana

Unknowingly, you were probably taught to give out the right communication to dogs, verbal or non-verbal.

Almost always, young children mimic parents attitudes towards dogs, so like me, you and your child grew up safely around dogs.

As a visiting child, I used to get into strife from relatives who really thought their working dogs would hurt me and I had been told, again and again, to stay away from the dogs. They gave up ticking me off after they found me sitting in the kennel sharing my sandwich with one of the dogs!

However, not all children have a natural ability to communicate with animals, even when they think they love dogs. Other children fear dogs and often you will find that their parents also fear, or feared, dogs. Unwittingly many adults pass on their attitude to the child and all the wrong signals go out to the dogs.

That is not to say that every dog attack is because of this, we cannot know that, but it will be in there to some degree.

Do I recommend that children get into kennels with strange dogs? No.

Remember the little girl in Warren? She did much the same thing that I did, and she is dead as a result.

Souff

[Souff]

Souff, you make a lot of sense in everything you say, we really do need to treat a dog as a dog, and after reading this site in depth on how dogs think, and after applying some of the principles to our Lab starting today,I have noticed, a difference in him already,he seems a much calmer dog.

I think this site is brilliant.

lablove

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/humandog.htm

A very good article. Worth sharing.

As the article says we cannot de-animalize our dogs.

Dogs do pick up on human energy, without doubt, but a dog's interpretation of a situation can be vastly different to the human's view of the same situation. And they definitely live only for the moment when instinct kicks in.

Souff

The Human Dog

We may dress him like a human, but we do not treat him like one.

The number one biggest mistake dog owners can make with their dogs is to treat them like humans. The human race is such a kind, compassionate species that we tend to look at our canine companions as little humans. When in reality, they are canines and have a very different thought process. This is what differentiates mankind from other species in pack societies; there must be a specific order, from the leader on down to the last follower. Everyone has a place. The leaders are the strength of the pack. The followers need the leader to guide them. This primal instinct keeps the pack secure and happy.

Dogs instinctually need rules they must follow, and limits to what they are allowed to do. When dogs live with humans, the humans become the dog's pack. For the relationship to succeed, humans must become the dogs pack leader. The mistake is made when the humans in the pack only give the dog love, and the other factors are overlooked. To a dog, constant affection without rules and limits goes against every grain in a dog's instinct, as affectionate love is a human trait, not a canine trait. Affection does not make dogs happy, satisfying their instincts make them happy. You need to provide a proper emotional stability in order to achieve this, and showing you have an orderly pack with rules to follow is what the dog needs. Giving your dog affection is important for the human, and enjoyed by the dog, but must be done at the correct time.

A dog is an animal and does not possess the same reasoning skills as humans. They do have emotions, but they are simple creatures with instincts, and their emotions lack the complex thought process. They feel joy when they know you are pleased, they feel sad when someone dies. However, they do not premeditate; do not plan ahead. They live for whatever is happening at the moment.

Lets say for example that you are upset over something that has happened in your life. Your dog will know you are upset, but they will not know why. For example, they are not going to reason out in their head that your boyfriend just broke up with you. Their interpretation of you will be that you have unstable energy and see you as weak.

On the flip side, when a human shares its affection with a dog who is in any other state of mind but a calm, submissive one, (for example aggression, obsession, shyness, skittishness, fear or hyper activeness and so on...) and you give them a hug or pat them on the head and tell them it is ok, it is comforting to the human, but feeds into that state of mind for the dog making it more intense. You are telling the dog it is ok to feel that way. While a human feels they are comforting a dog, the dog sees it as the human being weak, as you are not providing strong energy the dog can feed from. If your dog has a traumatic experience and you show them affection during that time trying to comfort them, rather than letting them work it out in their own mind and being a strong leader they can feed from, you leave them stuck in that state of mind. Later when your dog faces this traumatic situation again, you then comfort the dog, intensifying the situation even more. You are creating the problem. Dogs do not see comfort and affection in the same way we humans see it. Dogs are always looking for a strong stable being to feed from.

On the same note: When a dog is constantly leaning on you, putting his paw on you, using his nose to make you pet them, and always feeling the need to be touching you in some way, this is not your dog loving you, it is your dog displaying dominant behaviors. In the dog world, space is respect. A dog that is constantly nudging you and leaning on you, is not only disrespecting you, they are being the alpha dog.

Here is a video clip that shows a perfect example of humans giving a dog affection at the wrong time. This is a result of many years of being treated like a human. The dog is terrified of the thunder and fireworks she hears outside. This dog is in a weak state of mind. The humans in this clip are comforting the dog in a way humans understand, but not in a way a dog can understand. The comfort means two different things to the human and the dog. The dog sees it as everyone around her being weaker than she is. For a dog to be in a weak state of mind, then be surrounded by pack members who are in an even weaker state of mind, well this really messes up a dogs psyche and intensifies their fear. Watch the clip. While watching keep in mind how the humans feel they are comforting, and how the dog's instincts do not see it that way. Keeshond being treated like a human.

I Have Instincts

This also holds true for dogs who have medical issues. For example; if a dog has an operation and you feel sorry for the dog, at a time in the dog's life when it needs a strong packleader more than ever to feed from, you are instead becoming weaker in the dogs mind.

If you show weakness to your dog, the dog instinctually, in his own head, takes over the role of leader whether he wants the role or not, because there must be a strong leader and an order in a dog's pack. Humans often give the dog mixed leadership signals, which throws the dog off balance, confusing his psyche, causing many of the psychological/behavioral problems we see in dogs today. Mental tension and energy build up within the dog, which lead to many of your common canine misbehaviors. Eliminating in the house, obsessive behaviors, neurotic behaviors, chewing on themselves, being overly excited, barking excessively, whining, not following their owners commands, not coming when called, running off, getting into the trash, destroying things in the house, obsessively digging, chewing the furniture, tail chasing, scratching, aggression towards other dogs, animals, or humans, snapping, biting, growling, and becoming just plain old uncontrollable (just to name a few). You name it-- we can, more likely than not, trace your problem back to the way you treat your dog. In some cases it starts to appear the dog is just nuts, or psycho, and there is nothing one can do about it.

This is also the number one cause of separation anxiety. In a pack, the leader is allowed to leave, however, the followers never leave the leader. If your dog is instinctually seeing you as their follower and you leave them, it causes so much mental anguish that a dog often takes it out on your house or themselves.

Taking your dog for a walk is an important ritual in keeping your dog mentally stable. Dog's are walkers/travelers by instinct. Packs of dogs get up in the morning and walk. Simply having a large back yard is not going to satisfy this instinct in your dog. To your dog, your back yard is like a large cage, to where they are trapped. For a dog to be mentally stable, you as an owner must take your dog for daily walks to release not only physical energy, but also mental. The proper way to walk a dog is the dog walking either beside you or behind you, never in front of you. This may seem petty in a human's mind, however it means a lot in a dogs mind. Instinct tells a dog that the leader goes first. The dog is not to sniff the ground and relieve themselves where they please. They are to concentrate on their handler while walking. The person walking the dog decides when the dog is allowed to sniff or pee, not the dog. A lack of exercise and the mental energy a proper walk releases can cause many behavioral problems in a dog. Getting a dog to walk properly on a lead is not as hard as it may seem, yes, even for your own dog(s).

Dogs pick up on the energy of their humans. They can tell if you are hyper, nervous, scared, or calm. You will be able to communicate successfully with your dog if you use your body’s energy rather than excited words. For example, if your dog does something wrong and you yell and scream at the dog or beat the dog it confuses the dog. This is not the way a pack leader corrects his followers. However, if you approach your dog in a very self-assured and calm manner to correct the dog at the moment he is doing the unwanted behavior with an assertive touch to their neck... this they understand, because you are mimicking the way dogs correct one another, with calm, self-assured body language. If you want your dog to do or stop doing something, you need to first convince yourself it will happen. Stay calm and self-assured. Your dog will pick up on your emotion. Remember, the dog must be doing the deed at the moment of correction in order for you to successfully communicate.

Will You Please Be My Pack Leader?

We humans have successfully domesticated the dog, but we will never be able to de-animalize a dog and remove their natural instinct. We cannot change a dog into having human characteristics. Sure, we can pretend we can, and satisfy our human wants. However this is where your behavior problems arise. While we think we are treating a dog in such a way that will make them happy, we are in fact doing just the opposite. By not satisfying a dogs natural instincts we create confused and unhappy dogs. To happily coexist with mans best friend, we need to understand our fellow canines and satisfy THEM, rather than only satisfying ourselves.

Dogs do not live in the past or the future, as humans do. They live for the moment. Because a dog lives in the present, and not in the past or future, it is much easier to rehabilitate a dog than it is a human. If you begin treating your dog in a very self-assured manner, giving love to them at the right times, and correcting your dog at the right moments, you can change your dog into a happy and mentally stable dog. The more stable your dog is, the more calm and submissive he will become and the more you can give them affectionate love. It's a "win-win" situation.

As the saying goes, "Treat your dog like a human and he'll treat you like a dog!"

To help you learn to do this, we strongly suggest Cesar Millan DVD's and or Cesar Millan Books to every dog owner, from Chihuahua to Pit Bull. An excellent guide to communicating with, understanding, and controlling your dog.

© Dog Breed Info Center® All Rights Reserved

[asal]

"The human race is such a kind, compassionate species that we tend to look at our canine companions as little humans. When in reality, they are canines and have a very different thought process. This is what differentiates mankind from other species in pack societies; there must be a specific order, from the leader on down to the last follower. Everyone has a place. The leaders are the strength of the pack. The followers need the leader to guide them. This primal instinct keeps the pack secure and happy."

who wrote that?

i gather they didnt know about 9 11

or hitler or any of the atrocities man has inflicted on their fellows, since the dawn of the race.

from what ive seen cruelty to their own species is inherit to the human race, if you doubt that just watch the schoolyard. manners is parents attempts to make them safe to interact with their playmates

kick, bite, scratch, n thats just the psyical attacks without going into the mental damage of bullying?

never forget the dreadful day a friends son bit my daughters fingers to the bone, he was 18 months she was 3 months younger and seatbelted in, he reached across and took her hand and his mum thought how cute hes holding her hand, before we had an inkling what he had in mind he pulled her hand to face and bit, he wouldnt let go, his mother had to prise his teeth apart.

turned out another child had been biting him at daycare she later learned.

yep loving gentle race homo sapeins all right, belive that and u belive in fairies too.

theres some seriously sick sapiens puppies out there unfortunately

[Souff]

Asal

I hear you, I hear you. The word "generally" probably needed to be used in this article.

However, if we are to make anything better, including getting a better message to dog owners, we cannot model our behaviour and rules on the behaviour of the warped and the cruel in this world.

Souff

[megan_]

Who says the child was not supervised? Things happen when parents are RIGHT THERE. A dog can give several short sharp bites in the time it takes to cross the room can't they?

Agree. Dog attacks happen in milliseconds.

I think the whole "supervision" thing might actually be the "cause" of some attacks. People think that if they're watching the dog that everything will be okay - and that isn't necessarily the case.

When I grew up, we were never supervised around our dogs. We had a standard poodle that we would crawl over and play with, and my sister and I SLEPT ON (!) my grandparents' St Bernards. We never got so much as a grumble out of them. All of the dogs were selected for their rock solid temperaments and were socialised with kids from a very early age.

We had one dog that didn't get on well with people and the normal chaos that is a young family This was in the days pre-behaviourists etc. My parents looked into rehoming him, but after 6 months he eventaully got given his wings.

[asal]

Asal

I hear you, I hear you. The word "generally" probably needed to be used in this article.

However, if we are to make anything better, including getting a better message to dog owners, we cannot model our behaviour and rules on the behaviour of the warped and the cruel in this world.

Souff

yep

tough isnt it

[asal]

Asal

I hear you, I hear you. The word "generally" probably needed to be used in this article.

However, if we are to make anything better, including getting a better message to dog owners, we cannot model our behaviour and rules on the behaviour of the warped and the cruel in this world.

Souff

yep

tough isnt it

your right though, its sad that such a small few can cause so much pain u tend to forget they are the minority

oddly enough daughter has never been bitten by a dog though she grew up surrounded by em, mostly cattledogs. since this area u need em round the house if u dont want to find your been "visited"

only this weekend 5 of my neighbours were robbed while they slept. i kid u not. all we can figure was it was odd the ones left alone had dogs eh?

we are all glad none of them woke up, considering what can happen during home invasions eh?

apparently the fridges and freezers were all stripped food thrown everywhere n anything else of value n quickly carried gone.

didnt now people kept money in fridges n freezers?

anyway thats what they think they were looking for

Edited August 31, 2010 by asal

[aussielover]

On the same note: When a dog is constantly leaning on you, putting his paw on you, using his nose to make you pet them, and always feeling the need to be touching you in some way, this is not your dog loving you, it is your dog displaying dominant behaviors. In the dog world, space is respect. A dog that is constantly nudging you and leaning on you, is not only disrespecting you, they are being the alpha dog.

Taking your dog for a walk is an important ritual in keeping your dog mentally stable. Dog's are walkers/travelers by instinct. Packs of dogs get up in the morning and walk. Simply having a large back yard is not going to satisfy this instinct in your dog. To your dog, your back yard is like a large cage, to where they are trapped. For a dog to be mentally stable, you as an owner must take your dog for daily walks to release not only physical energy, but also mental. The proper way to walk a dog is the dog walking either beside you or behind you, never in front of you. This may seem petty in a human's mind, however it means a lot in a dogs mind. Instinct tells a dog that the leader goes first. The dog is not to sniff the ground and relieve themselves where they please. They are to concentrate on their handler while walking. The person walking the dog decides when the dog is allowed to sniff or pee, not the dog. A lack of exercise and the mental energy a proper walk releases can cause many behavioral problems in a dog. Getting a dog to walk properly on a lead is not as hard as it may seem, yes, even for your own dog(s).

Shame- i love dogs that nudge you for pats! None of mine have ever done that though.

I really don't agree that a dog has to walk behind or beside you. It doesn't really matter where they walk so long as leader is telling them where to do it. As a future guide dog, my dog is walked ahead of me and is allowed to make certain decisions for herself eg. stopping at the curb, stopping before stairs etc Of course I have taught her previously that doing these things is the right thing to do.

I don't feel that she sees herself as leader, she in't allowed to sniff or to wander wherever she pleases.

Guide dogs are interesting in the fact that they have to act as a "leader" to the person, yet at the same time be submissive and obey certain commands given by the person, as well as make decisions about when not to obey (if a car is coming)

[Staranais]

Guide dogs are interesting in the fact that they have to act as a "leader" to the person, yet at the same time be submissive and obey certain commands given by the person, as well as make decisions about when not to obey (if a car is coming)

SAR dogs are the same. If my girl is on the scent and I'm doing something dumb like calling her off or pulling her the wrong way, I want her to do her utmost to drag her daft owner in the right direction, not just "submit" and follow me!

One of the advanced trainers told me that the handler is the boss of the team when the dog is not following a scent, but when the dog is following a scent, then the dog is the boss of the team. That division of labour works for us.

[persephone]

Sheepdogs also have to

a) obey commands-instantly.

b) act on their own if, for example, left with a mob of sheep to 'shepherd ' along a fence or trail for some kilometres until the human returns, or if a sheep breaks away etc .