Is There A Good Alternative To Glucosamine

[Erny]

My boy has spondylosis. It's only mild but then he's only 2yo - which IMO is pretty young to be sporting this condition (diagnosed at 15mo). Current Vet has recommended giving him Glucosamine and massage. He's not a good candidate for acupuncture because he just won't relax enough for the treatment.

Thing is, I'm working on resolving his gastro issues at the moment. But even when I do (I'm optimistic ), I'm not sure that Glucosamine will be good for his stomach. Things I've read about it suggest it can cause diarrhoea, and heaven knows he's had enough of that (has been mostly loose stools since March this year - hopefully the signs he showed today indicate vast improvement .... and hopefully the improvement will last ).

Is there another joint support product that is good but that is less inclined to cause upset to sensitive stomachs?

[Cosmolo]

Have you considered cartrophen injections?

[dog geek]

Erny, Ester C has been studied in Norway and proven to alleviate pain in joints. It supports the body's production of synovial fluid, thus cushioning the damaged joints.

I use it for myself, and can report objectively that it takes about a week to kick in, and that the relief is profound.

I also use the D-Glucosamine Hydrocholride/sulphide compounds, and while they take longer to become effective, they do have a discernable anit-inflammatory effect as well as allowing the body to produce cartilege and tendon.

Good luck!

[Staranais]

Thing is, I'm working on resolving his gastro issues at the moment. But even when I do (I'm optimistic ), I'm not sure that Glucosamine will be good for his stomach. Things I've read about it suggest it can cause diarrhoea, and heaven knows he's had enough of that (has been mostly loose stools since March this year - hopefully the signs he showed today indicate vast improvement .... and hopefully the improvement will last ).

Is there another joint support product that is good but that is less inclined to cause upset to sensitive stomachs?

There are lots of joint supplements out there - most work in slightly different ways, so if it's within the budget, you could try several & hopefully get a synergistic effect? Intro them one at a time of course, so that if something causes an adverse reaction, you know which one it is.

Glucosamine, MSM, chondroitan, are all supposed to be good for some dogs. There's one product out there that's supposed to be particularly good, glucosamin + chondroitan + manganese, although I haven't tried it myself.

I've had Pentosan/Cartrophen injections with my girl, they're supposed to help DJD, but there is apparently some indication it can help prevent DJD too (my understanding of spondylosis is that it's simply DJD of the spine).

I presume he's already on fish body oil (with E) for the omega 3?

Staff'n'Toller suggested green lipped muscle to me on another thread, which is a great idea.

I've heard conflicting reports on ester-C, some people reckon it helps them, some say that it does nothing, I've never tried it or researched into it much myself. Perhaps it depends on the individual. I believe it can have GIT side effects at high doses (although less than regular vit C), so start with a low dose if you try it.

Did they suggest swimming to you? I know we often recommend that to DJD dogs, I presume spondylosis similarly benefit.

Did they have any suggestions as to what caused the spondylosis?

[Dogsfevr]

I have a dog with spondo & basically he has Bowen monthly or more if needed but anymore than 4 weeks & he will start to get very sore.

Cartrophen weekly (older dog & works very well this way for him plus he has it bad now).

I seriously found the gluco & the likes not to work real well BUT use human stuff .I use rosehip tablets which have worked very well.

wearing a coat is amust to keep the area warm & good bedding that is supportive & keeping active

[CavsRcute]

I seriously found the gluco & the likes not to work real well BUT use human stuff .I use rosehip tablets which have worked very well.

Hi PF, what sort of dosoage do yoy use for the rosehip tablets?

Do you use the human variety?

TIA

[Dogsfevr]

I seriously found the gluco & the likes not to work real well BUT use human stuff .I use rosehip tablets which have worked very well.

Hi PF, what sort of dosoage do yoy use for the rosehip tablets?

Do you use the human variety?

TIA

At present i am using the human kind which doesn't work out cheap BUT was the best option to see if it worked with no issues.

Apparently there is an equine product which dogs can use that is similar so i need to check it out.

The Rosehip dosage for humans is 5/6 tabs a day .

I give 2 tabs for my 40 kg dog & have found that to work well .

My boy is at the severe end & the last X rays the vets can not understand how he is walking .

He runs an acre & lives like a dog.Yes he has his off days .

I did find a good bed a must (not tramp beds ) .

Although i solely believe the Bowen is the miracle for him & monthly better still every 3 weeks.

Generally due to the condition his spondo isn't what flairs up but the other muscles that are doing a double load

[Staffyluv]

We use Ester C and Ollie also has cartrophen injections... I have seen a big improvement with the cartrophen injections...

[Erny]

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions. I'm taking them all on board. I particularly want and need to steer away from anything that can potentially cause stomach/bowel upset - mainly because I'm still struggling to get him over a current bout that has been ongoing since March. Of course I realise anything the system isn't used to could potentially cause tummy upset, but I want to find the one that will be the least likely.

Mandela's spondylosis, on a scale of 1 to 10 is about a 2, if I remember what the Vet told me 7 months ago. It is only slight and you might not guess that he has the condition. So what I want to use now is something to assist and help prevent it becoming worse - or at the very least, slow its progress down. All of the ideas you have given here are helpful.

I'm interested in looking into the Rose Hip suggestion and will do some more research on that - thanks Showdog.

Ester C too ..... although I thought that could contribute to tummy upset and loose motions. Will need to refresh the memory banks on that one. I know I used to supplement him using Vitamin C (can't remember if I have used Ester C) but we pulled him off that as part of trying to sort out why his poop was runny all the time.

LOL .... I'm not so sure Mandela would flop himself in any degree of relaxation for anyone else to 'work' on him. He thinks others doing stuff like that are just there for a big game. But it is worth thinking about. In the meantime, I do a lot of massage in the affected area - nothing special, but something to increase heat and blood supply to the area and to keep the surrounding muscles supple.

I'm going to give it a bit more time for his other meds to kick in and do their thing - I'm really hopeful that diagnosing low thyroid and now being able to medicate him to correct it will help with more than just one of his woes. But the ideas you've all offered here are ideas I will come back to once we have the thyroid levels sorted and I know what I still need to deal with.

Staranais - I don't know that there was a "cause" for it. As part of the myriad of ailment symptoms and not knowing what one was because of or connected to what, I simply had reason to want his back xrayed - his back just didn't look right. That's what revealed the spondylosis. Part of his back not looking right could be irritated bowel discomfort as well, because there are times his back looks better (straighter) than at other times. I've always been careful about him jumping (particularly down); avoided steps when he was a pup; didn't over walk him - most activity was free play and if we needed to go anywhere, I'd pick him up if I felt he'd walked enough; if I threw a ball I threw it long and low so he wouldn't leap into the air and land wrong (and still do); etc. So I don't know why he has it. I tell you, he'd have to be a training Veterinary's dream dog LOL. I sure as eggs have learnt a lot through having him.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Erny

[Winterpaws]

It's not a dog product but I use Blackmores Lyprinol for my own creaky joints and find that it gives me a lot of benefit.

MSM is also purported to have an anti inflammatory effect

[Erny]

It's not a dog product but I use Blackmores Lyprinol for my own creaky joints and find that it gives me a lot of benefit.

MSM is also purported to have an anti inflammatory effect

Yeah - I think I read that out of a few products, MSM is the least likely to cause digestive side effects, or something along those lines.

Will look up Lyprinol as well. Thanks WP.

[sas]

MSM is gentle on the stomach, you can work from lower doses up and watch how they react.

The thing with giving MSM is that different doses work for different individuals so you really have to do a bit of trial and error.

You'd want to look at at least 99% pure powder/crystal and you mix it in with their food.

[Dogsfevr]

Erny we have used bowen for 6 yrs ,

I now you say the dog has other issues but do consider bowen even for the stomach upsets.

Because of the way spondo works & the dog is a tad sore it uses other muscles ,my boy had liquid runs a few months back & it was due to his stomach muscles being affected by his back .His stomach was spasming & in turn the runs

The dogs don't have to be relaxed as such for bowen.

my guys stand & you would be surprised how easily they accept it & tolerate it .

My guys fall alseep part way through.

Esther C gave alll my dogs the runs badly

[Erny]

Thanks for those tips, Sas. I'll strongly consider MSM as an alternative and will take into account your suggestions regards to building up to the correct dosage and making sure I get the 99% pure powder/crystal.

Cheers

Erny

[Erny]

And Showdog - you have a good and valid point as to getting onto Bowen sooner rather than later. Can anyone send me some strong recommendations for someone who does Bowen in South East suburbs Melbourne, or surrounds?

[Staff'n'Toller]

I'm pretty sure there is someone at Woofpurnay who is doing bowen.

I haven't had cause to use her but she is in the back of my mind in the future. My Stafford is doing well with warm water swimming, chiro, cartrophen, Joint Guard and (as an aside) she is on low dose NSAID's now because she's an old lady and deserves to be comfortable. The NSAID's have been a fairly recent addition though.

[GSD FAN]

Not sure if this is what you're after but i give my dog Vets All Natural Joint Formula. It contains shark cartilage powder, green lipped mussel, flax seed, vitamin C, dolomite, copper, sulphur, boron and ginger. I've had success with it with my 10 year old german shepherd. it was looking as though she would be needing cartrophen injections but since changing to this she's become almost like a puppy again.

[Erny]

Not sure if this is what you're after but i give my dog Vets All Natural Joint Formula. It contains shark cartilage powder, green lipped mussel, flax seed, vitamin C, dolomite, copper, sulphur, boron and ginger. I've had success with it with my 10 year old german shepherd. it was looking as though she would be needing cartrophen injections but since changing to this she's become almost like a puppy again.

Thanks GSD FAN. I used the VAN Joint Formula for my previous avatar girl, Kal (bhcs). It caused her stomach upset. I understand it has a very good reputation and the (also very reputable) Vet at the time informed me that she was the first he knew of who had reacted badly to it.

It doesn't mean my current boy will react the same, but I'm afraid my previous experience of it has made me a bit cautious. Not to suggest I would never use it .... just not sure if I want to when there is potential for something else to work perhaps and hopefully as well.