Experiences With Pet Resorts Terrigal & Trainer Steve Austin

[MyBoxerGirl]

Hi all, I'm looking for some feedback/experiences anyone may of had with Pet Resorts at Terrigal especially any of their trainers - from what I can understand Steve Austin "supervises all training at Pet Resorts Australia" so feedback/experiences with him as a trainer would be very appreciated too. My family and I are planning on going away and I was hoping to fine somewhere that boards and trains for our Boxer girl, I have had so much trouble finding a boarding facility that

a)boards and trains, and

b) that I thought she would do okay in as she is a super spoilt indoor girl and most of the ones I have come across seem cold and so far away from what she is used to at home.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to respond

[lovemesideways]

Vicki and Steve Austin are the owners of pet resorts. I know them personally and they're both really awesome trainers and nice people in general

I don't know any of the other trainers that work there but I would assume they would also be good.

Give them a call and have a chat. You could probably organise to go down there and check out the kennels and trainers to make sure you're comfortable with whatever methods they use.

Edited August 19, 2010 by lovemesideways

[Gamby]

I love Steve Austin. I've attended a number of his workshops as well a seeing him train an assistance dog in the owners home.

Some of his way of training I don't agree with but I'm sure we can all say that and only take in what we think is OK

[shmoo]

I don't always agree with their training methods either. I have heard that Steve Austin believes every command/lesson can and must be trained using a check chain. *shudder*

Also, I am 99% sure that Vicki and Steve live near me at Galston. I was out at Pet Resorts Galston about 3 months ago, met Vicki, was showed around the premises (PM me if you want more info on that), meaning you maybe not be having Steve or Vicki train the dog directly.

I know a fantastic kennel that boards and trains in Arcadia, PM me if you want the details.

Edited August 22, 2010 by shmoo

[Nekhbet]

I don't always agree with their training methods either. I have heard that Steve Austin believes every command/lesson can and must be trained using a check chain. *shudder*

eh where did you hear that? Gotta love second hand information

Steve does a lot of work with customs as well as TV dogs. I have met his dogs and a friend trusts him with her own home bred dogs. I think the OP should go have a look around first before listening to rumours, the governments trust steve with training their dogs and even handlers so I dont see why anyone else shouldnt. He thoroughly understands motivation, reward and getting the best out of a dog.

[shmoo]

Like I said, I have only heard that. But I know several trainers that have worked with him and they walked away unimpressed. But I have only heard these things, I have not seen Steve in action (seen him IRL, but not training).

The OP should go to all the kennels and talk to the trainers herself I agree. Only the OP knows her dog and what training methods will work. I know if I tried a check chain on my greyhound and started 'popping' she would fall to pieces.

[Nekhbet]

Shmoo you never use check chains on sight hounds due to their neck structure, if you dont know this glaring fact then maybe you need a freshen up on dog training equipment.

And not every dog is of a soft temperament so some need it.

But I have only heard these things, I have not seen Steve in action (seen him IRL, but not training).

here's the difference, I have seen him train. You just seem to have an issue with anyone that dare use anything bar purely positive training irrespective of their true skill level.

[Vickie]

I've never had a lesson with Steve but have been at Pet Resorts a number of times & watched him handle his own dogs. I have found them to be very well trained & super keen to work for him. I'm not sure you can get those kind of results if you are not a good trainer.

[shmoo]

Nekhbet: Not saying that I personally would use a check chain on a sighthound. I don't use check chains at all, I prefer a martingale. But, I am not a professional trainer.

I was just stating what I had heard.. So maybe Steve is an awesome trainer I have only seen Vicki in action. I have seen the police trainers out there too and that looked pretty cool, all positive (reward was the toy).

I do plan on taking his 'Dangerous Dogs' course in the near future, so, I don't think the guy is pure hell.

This is my personal opinion: I think that positive training should be tried first.

[Kavik]

Scent detection work is his specialty, nobody can deny his expertise there.

No boarding and training place that I know of, that claims to get results in a number of weeks, uses purely positive methods for training obedience. Your best bet for using positive methods is to train the dog yourself, with either the assistance of a trainer or a club.

[Nekhbet]

This is my personal opinion: I think that positive training should be tried first.

And from a trainers point of view, you try what is best for the dog first NOT to suit your ideals. Trainers should aim to fix the dog in the most humane method possible, and what is ultimately good for the dog.

and I dont think it's fair to post bad things about people you have never seen train in the flesh, especially things like *shudder* and all that rubbish. I get a bit miffed when people on this forum are more then happy to point fingers and perpetuate garbage about good, decent people who have worked VERY hard in this country, just because they havnt decided to go ride the Delta bandwagon. I would like you to show me one purely positive Delta only accredited person working to train police, military, gov scent detection dogs etc, the animals that help our society.

Shmoo you seem to be a little confused on what training is about. As for positive training its basis is on negative punishment (removal of good things and pack punishments) unless you truely sit there and continuously shove rewards at your dog all the time.

I have seen the police trainers out there too and that looked pretty cool, all positive (reward was the toy

all training no matter what you use, has to be fun for the dog or it will not work. I can use a corrective collar on a dog and it can still be bursting out of its skin in happyness to be with me. I think you need to get out and see some different training methods before you form opinions.

[shmoo]

Ok, the shudder remark was a bit much, it came across more harshly via text than I intended it to. But I did state it was something that I heard. Not that I saw. Was kinda just thinking out loud I suppose.

I understand about:

Positive reinforcement

Negative reinforcement

Positive punishment

Negative punishment

but in layman terms I refer to 'positive training' as something enjoyable for the dog.

I don't ride the Delta bandwagon either

ETA to clarify: The shudder remark was aimed at the idea of training with only a check chain.

Edited August 23, 2010 by shmoo

[corvus]

I would like you to show me one purely positive Delta only accredited person working to train police, military, gov scent detection dogs etc, the animals that help our society.

Why should those dogs be the standard we all look to? Not many folks need a dog that damn reliable, and I don't know anyone who needs a dog that can do even half of what a working dog needs to do.

As far as Austin goes, some have an ethical issue with him because he's the president of the PIAA, which supports the sale of live animals in pet stores. He didn't strike me as the kind of person that trains with a check chain alone, and I did see him at the NDTF conference talking about using toy rewards and demonstrating what he has done with his own dog. I came back from the NDTF conference sick to death of hearing rubbish sexist banter from him, but that's my problem and has nothing to do with his dog training skills, which I understand are exceptional. The banter wasn't malicious, just misplaced IMO. My mate who knows him (and dogs) said once you get past the bluster he's quite sensible and knowledgable and takes dog welfare very seriously.

[Kelpie-i]

Just because you use a correction chain, doesn't mean you don't use rewards and positive reinforcement when training. The ignorance continues

Steve Austin is the person responsible for training many service and detector dogs both overseas an here in Oz. His services and knowledge is regularly sought after in overseas countries like Japan and Dubai. He is the "mad scientist" of the dog world and knows/understands dogs inside and out. Steve also trained:

The bulldog in the nappy ad on TV

Toby the Wonderdog for Katrina Warren

The hungry dog (his own dog) in the Sargent's Pies ad....just to name a few

His is a no-nonsense person who will use whatever method is appropriate to get the job done.

[MyBoxerGirl]

Thank you all for taking the time to give your experiences and feedback.

From what I understood I doubted very much that Steve would actually be doing the training but figured it would be based on his methods etc and if he owned the facilities and was using his name in promoting that the trainers used would be ones he approved of.

I have no issue with check chains if they are used correctly but thats JMO.

Our girl is really good at home and knows basic commands and house manners but being a typical Boxer gets very um .... enthusiastic around new people and new dogs so I was wanting a little help working on what I believe is called proofing - being more responsive to our commands in highly distracted situations and if need be we will follow up with weekly classes. I just figured she has to go to boarding anyways so get a head start with daily lessons while she is there - hopefully it will keep her busy and give her more people time while she is there - which I know she will miss .

I plan on phoning and organising a time to go have a look and a chat with them before I book in just to make sure I feel comfortable with the place - I didn't have this much trouble picking a school for my skin kids

Thanks again

[lovemesideways]

I don't always agree with their training methods either. I have heard that Steve Austin believes every command/lesson can and must be trained using a check chain. *shudder*

Also, I am 99% sure that Vicki and Steve live near me at Galston. I was out at Pet Resorts Galston about 3 months ago, met Vicki, was showed around the premises (PM me if you want more info on that), meaning you maybe not be having Steve or Vicki train the dog directly.

I know a fantastic kennel that boards and trains in Arcadia, PM me if you want the details. :D

That is complete crap. You shouldn't be repeating gossip because it does get around and its a nasty way to go about ruining someones reputation.

I've seen Steve work his dogs (got to do bite work with his Rottie King. Biggest bruise EVER on my shoulder after that experience ) he is great with them, they adore him. Don't have a bad word to say about him. Anyone who has heard him use his 'silly voice' to praise the massive King will change their mind about him pretty quick.

I would like you to show me one purely positive Delta only accredited person working to train police, military, gov scent detection dogs etc, the animals that help our society.

Why should those dogs be the standard we all look to? Not many folks need a dog that damn reliable, and I don't know anyone who needs a dog that can do even half of what a working dog needs to do.

As far as Austin goes, some have an ethical issue with him because he's the president of the PIAA, which supports the sale of live animals in pet stores. He didn't strike me as the kind of person that trains with a check chain alone, and I did see him at the NDTF conference talking about using toy rewards and demonstrating what he has done with his own dog. I came back from the NDTF conference sick to death of hearing rubbish sexist banter from him, but that's my problem and has nothing to do with his dog training skills, which I understand are exceptional. The banter wasn't malicious, just misplaced IMO. My mate who knows him (and dogs) said once you get past the bluster he's quite sensible and knowledgable and takes dog welfare very seriously.

Why shouldn't they be the standard? I see the standard as the best, and as far as level of training and control goes, they're the best.

Saying that people don't need something of that standard is like saying, Why should regular people look at champion show or workings dogs as the example for their chosen breed? They're just pets, any mutt will do because its not like its going to be shown, its just a pet.

Why shouldn't you aspire to have the highest possible level you can?

I'm pretty sure a lot of folks would be very happy if their dogs where "that damn reliable". I would certainly be happy if everyone's dogs where that "damn reliable".

I think the comment was based on the fact that the PP Delta trainers level of training is low when compared to the amazing training done by high level police or military dog trainers. So tramping about saying that "Check chains are cruel!" and "Purely Positive training should be the only training used!" is all well and good.. but then how the hell are we going to train the police, military, goverment dogs of the world? Could you train one with only positive methods, or know someone who could?

[Nekhbet]

exactly what lovemesideways has said :D. Delta insists on saying their methods are the best, yet NO dog at the pinnacle of training is trained by one of their members with their methods alone ... why? Because they do not have the skills or the tools or the broad mind it takes to do that. And actually corvus, people in society DO need reliable dogs. Especially those who chose to keep large breeds, entire males that may have attitudes etc you want reliability and safety from your dog.

Yes I know Steve is PIAA, that gets my goat too. Bad. But at the same time the man is a damn good dog trainer who knows how to motivate an animal and get it working happily. If he can make a chicken play the piano he can do anything

[aussielover]

I'm pretty sure guide and assistance dogs are trained MAINLY using positive methods, but also other methods.

In the end they need to be 99.99% safe for handler (ie not running off for pats or food or to chase etc). IMO no dog can be 100% becuase they are after all living, thinking creatures.

If I can train my dog to have 95% recall using positive methods, of course i will, but i am also prepared to try other methods to get the extra 9% to make them that much more reliable. I'm not sure who wouldn't be willing to and I think that is the downside of "purely positive" trainers. I think it is safest, even for a pet, to have the best recall possible as you never know when you might need it!

By the way, I know several people who speak very highly of steve and vicki and have attended their puppy classes as well as trained with them.

I'm personally not a big fan of the "board and train" situations, having heard from people who have done this and also trainers themselves, the training oftren only lasts a few weeks after unless the owners is willing to put in the work following... (not that i'm saying the OP is not)

Many people see it as a quick fix, the dog comes back all well trained, but it is not going to be maintained unless the owner continues the training.

Edited August 23, 2010 by aussielover

[corvus]

I would like you to show me one purely positive Delta only accredited person working to train police, military, gov scent detection dogs etc, the animals that help our society.

Why should those dogs be the standard we all look to? Not many folks need a dog that damn reliable, and I don't know anyone who needs a dog that can do even half of what a working dog needs to do.

Why shouldn't they be the standard? I see the standard as the best, and as far as level of training and control goes, they're the best.

Well, it depends on what you mean by "the best". The methods used to train military, police and detection dogs are geared towards a particular type of dog. You cannot take an ordinary everyday pet dog and train them the way that police dogs are trained and just expect that to produce a dog that is as reliable as a police dog. And by "reliable" we are talking about carrying out their training when someone is trying to beat the crap out of them. Would you put your dogs through that? I wouldn't. It'd break them. It's precisely the reason why they spend so much money trying to figure out how to select dogs that will actually make it through the training. Most don't. I think it's ridiculous to look to a standard that is designed and suited to a kind of dog that most pet owners don't actually own and never will. They are not the "best". They are just the ones that can do it.

Saying that people don't need something of that standard is like saying, Why should regular people look at champion show or workings dogs as the example for their chosen breed? They're just pets, any mutt will do because its not like its going to be shown, its just a pet.

No it's not like that at all. There's a difference between looking at the pinnacle and admiring it and trying to get there. Getting there takes more than just the right training. You have to have the raw ability to get there first.

Why shouldn't you aspire to have the highest possible level you can?

Because your dog isn't suited to it! It is cruel to put an animal through training that is inherently stressful if they cannot cope with it, doubly so if it isn't even necessary.

I'm pretty sure a lot of folks would be very happy if their dogs where "that damn reliable". I would certainly be happy if everyone's dogs where that "damn reliable".

I wouldn't be, because I have some vague idea of what goes into making them like that.

I think the comment was based on the fact that the PP Delta trainers level of training is low when compared to the amazing training done by high level police or military dog trainers. So tramping about saying that "Check chains are cruel!" and "Purely Positive training should be the only training used!" is all well and good.. but then how the hell are we going to train the police, military, goverment dogs of the world? Could you train one with only positive methods, or know someone who could?

See, this is what I don't get. So what if Delta trainers can't train military dogs? No one is asking them to. They only have to train pet dogs. Whether they do that well or not or even positively or not is up for debate, but beside the point. Everyone here only has to train pet dogs. The percentage of dogs in the world that can even DO military or police work in the first place is tiny. The percentage of breeds suited to it is tiny and the percentage of individuals within the breeds that can do it is tiny. So it seems like a ridiculous standard to apply to the whole of dogdom to me, and I often wonder why dog trainers are so obsessed with police and military dogs. I'd like to see a police dog trainer get a reliable heel out of a Basenji.

Steven Lindsay at the NDTF conference shared what it took to train a military dog with positive methods only, and it wasn't very nice. He didn't really offer an alternative, though. Just kinda vaguely said that positive methods aren't always very good for dogs.

[corvus]

If I can train my dog to have 95% recall using positive methods, of course i will, but i am also prepared to try other methods to get the extra 9% to make them that much more reliable. I'm not sure who wouldn't be willing to and I think that is the downside of "purely positive" trainers. I think it is safest, even for a pet, to have the best recall possible as you never know when you might need it!

Sorry for taking this thread off topic, but I thought that was a really good point.

The problem to me is not so much the use of corrections or aversives in training as when they are used. Animals learn aversive consequences very well, but that is a big responsibility to anyone deliberately introducing aversives into an animal's life. I am extremely cautious about doing it and am unlikely to do it if I can't be sure that the level will be right, the timing will be right, I can be 100% consistent, and the animal won't be able to associate it with much else in the environment, particularly me. I have never punished a failed recall because I cannot guarantee the timing will be right, and I certainly can't be 100% consistent about it. The last thing I want is for my clever dog to realise that now is a good time to run away from me rather than recall.