Not Sure Whether To Persevere With Obedience Classes

[aussielover]

Hi,

I posted before in the toilet training topic about taking my puppy to obedience. She is 4.5 months old.

Now I am not sure that I should continue to go. Although Mindy did fairly well, she was pretty worked up, unless we were actually working- ie doing the exercises.

I am not sure whether this was because it was her first time and she will become better each time... opinions from people who have taken their young pups (<6 months old) to obedience appreciated :D

I am not sure whether this was because of her age- she was the youngest pup there, although the club accepts pups from 4 months of age.

The behaviour that led me to think she was worked up and uncomfortable/stressed was:

Barking at other dogs, which she NEVER usually does. Lots of other dogs were barking there too, which probably contributed and worked her up a lot, even dogs in the higher levels.

Not settling and trying to pull on the lead when we were meant to be standing and listening to the instructor, She usually settles very well. In her other puppy class she will just lie down calmly. She also rarely pulls on the lead, I can hold it usually with one finger only.

I would say we talked for the first 20 minutes, did about 5 mins of work then talked again for 20 minutes then did work etc for the whole hour. At her other puppy class, the instructor will only talk for a max of 10 mins, then we will do work or let the pups socialise.

I was also shocked with how many "reactive" dogs there were- quite a few were lunging on the lead and barking at other dogs. I tried to keep Mindy away from these dogs as I don't want her to become scared.

Two dogs got into a fight on lead as well.

I am not sure these classess are designed with young pups in mind and am wondering if I should wait until she is a bit older?

They also use different positions and signals to how Mindy is supposed to work. They are happy for me to use my own signals and positions, however they are not really sure how to help. eg walking at the heel- Mindy must walk slightly ahead of me, with eyes facing forward where as the traditional obedience heel has the dog right by your side and staring up at you (obviously this is useless for a guide dog- wouldn't get very far )

Guide dogs even prefer the dogs to be slightly pulling on the lead.

Mindy also goes to an advanced puppy class, where the teacher is an ex guide dog trainer, so really knows how Mindy should be working, so she will definitely continue to go to that.

Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to know if you think I should continue to go to obedience and maybe hear some of your expereinces of obedience school with younger puppies.

Thanks

[pipsqueak]

I would suggest speaking to the guide dog instructor for their opinion on what you should be doing during the other class - after all it is "their" dog, and they know how they want it trained...

[poodlefan]

Sounds to me like you need to find a better obedience class, rather than ceasing training altogether.

[aussielover]

I would suggest speaking to the guide dog instructor for their opinion on what you should be doing during the other class - after all it is "their" dog, and they know how they want it trained...

I have already spoken to guide dogs about this.

They basically want the dogs to walk slightly ahead and ignore distractions, pulling on the lead slightly is fine, but loose leash walking is ok too.

The pups should know basic obedience such as sit, down, stay etc for which I have already been shown the hand signals and have taught Mindy these.

They are happy for puppies to attend obedience, however we have to use the positions and signals we have been shown.

[Sandra777]

What do you actually want from obedience classes? Is there some part of her training you feel unable to do yourself? If you just want to teach her to work in a distracting environment you can do that anywhere - shopping malls, carparks, streets etc.

[aussielover]

I want her to be able to work around distratcions, especially dogs, but also to give her something challenging to do.

I am not sure if that is too much to expcect at her age, but am beginning to think that it probably is too much for her, as an individual, at this point.

She has been extenstively socialised and basically comes with me wherever i go (everywhere she can). She is usually fine in all sorts of environments but has not really been around that many dogs before (and that many reactive/aggressive ones)

But Sandra, you are right, I can work with her at home and in different environments. I kind of imagined obedience to be fun and exciting for her and for me, not for her to be stressed and unsettled the whole time! I can't compete her in obedience anyway, so you're probably right, I should just work her at home

I mainly wanted to ask other puppy owners whether this sort of excitement/restlessness and possibly stress, goes away after a few sessions?

She was extremely bad in her first puppy class (even the teacher thought she was hyper lol)- but is now fine and really enjoys it, so I wonder if the same will happen at obedience?

[pipsqueak]

I would still be asking the guide dog instructors if they want their dogs in that environment (reactive dogs) at that age. Perhapsa it's just me, but I think that it might possibly cause more harm than good.

[Nekhbet]

If you are raising a guide dog your primary source of information should be guide dogs org not the internet. If your other instructor is a ex guide dog instructor then I would be sticking with them too. If you are finding it a bit out of your depth then harass them until they supply you with the necessary help. We can give you advice but then you could be teaching the dog the entirely wrong thing.

[Magstar]

I will be starting obedience training with Oscar in 2 weeks time and I am worried about the same sort of thing. He has never been around that many dogs before and so I am worried that he will freak out when we go.

[Genabee]

I started obedience with Genevieve last month (she was not quite 5 months at the time)... we completed puppy school when she was 12 weeks.

I personally find it great for her. I found 4 weeks of puppy school wasn't enough - and she loved it! I wanted to get her involved in something where she could meet lots of other dogs, have some exercise (both mental and physical), build on her skills and also for me - to see how the others do it!

I find it great for her and will definitely be keeping it up. I think poodle fan is right - sounds like right thing, wrong place. You need to find somewhere that will work with you and Mindy, not against you.

[koalathebear]

hi aussielover: I have no experience about guide dog training so will defer to others on that one i.e. whether you should be bringing Mindy to general obedience classes blah blah.

In terms of obedience classes, Elbie was 4+ months when he started obedience. Puppy classes weren't very good for him - neither he nor we enjoyed the class-room sessions because he was squirming impatiently. Beginner obedience seems much better for him. He gets very excited when we get there and he does bark there a lot more than he normally does, but he usually settles down for class - we get there 15 minutes earlier to settle him down.

There are a couple of excitable dogs in our class and what the owners do with them is to leave the group and walk them around until they calm down again before bringing them back.

Elbie doesn't tend to like playing with other dogs so a big part of us bringing him to the classes is socialisation. We take him to the offlead area and he'll run around chasing his frisbee or begging for treats from other owners. He seems unfussed by the other dogs and will just do his own thing - we just don't want him to be afraid/unsettled around other dogs so it's probably more about densensitation than socialisation.

There are a couple of dogs that seem a little aggressive at the school - we just do our best to avoid those two dogs. There were a few people in our beginner obedience class that elected to take a break after beginners to allow their pups to calm down/mature a bit because they were excitable and easily distracted, but we decided that we just wanted to push on with Elbie because even if he has to do bronze twice - it's all good experience for him

Good luck with whatever you decide, though. You have all my sympathy. Most people remember how stressful it is to be responsible for the welfare of a puppy is but I genuinely sympathise and empathise with your predicament. My puppy brings constant challenges *big hug*

[Tilly]

Is is possible to move further away from the others when you are not working.

My youngest was rather reactive around other dogs when he first started so most of the class we were quite a distance away ... over time we slowly moved closer until eventually we could join in.

When he carried on I just walked him away and got him to sit (with his back to the distraction) waited for him to calm down and then moved back. He soon learnt that if he wanted to get closer to the dogs he needed to be calm.

[Genabee]

Is is possible to move further away from the others when you are not working.

My youngest was rather reactive around other dogs when he first started so most of the class we were quite a distance away ... over time we slowly moved closer until eventually we could join in.

When he carried on I just walked him away and got him to sit (with his back to the distraction) waited for him to calm down and then moved back. He soon learnt that if he wanted to get closer to the dogs he needed to be calm.

This happens a lot at our obedience club. All of us are always taking it in turns to walk away with our dogs and come back once they have calmed down.

As someone else suggested, we go about 15 minutes early and let them mingle before class starts. Genevieve always starts out excited, but is relatively settled by the end. Her first class there was difficult (she was a right pain in the arse), but since then she has been fine.

[betsy]

Hi, I'm a newbie dog owner, but can relate.

I have a similar issue with my dog (he's about 6 months). We have been going to obedience for the past 4 weeks. He is quite nervy there, instructor has commented on it. I think it is the large number of other dogs around. We did do puppy preschool, but a very different set-up.

What I have found though over the past 4 weeks..

He is getting better each week. We try to arrive a bit earlier so less dogs to walk past, but he is improving at that (he loves other dogs, and would like to say hello to all of them)

We have to take a mat for the dog to sit on, and I notice he finds security by having this. I try to sit in a 'corner' so he feels a bit safer.

There is definite improvement on what he is able to do with the distraction level of the other dogs, and he is getting less reactive to the dogs in his class. I take this as a positive sign. He also appears to have quite good focus on me during class, this also seems to be getting better as each week gets on. I also like doing things with him quietly whilst the other dogs are having their turn. We often do a bit of nose targeting whilst he is lying down. Or a bit of a slow neck/ ear massage.

I also spoke to my breeder (who does training) and we are going to catch up soon. I find it is helpful to touch base about these things!

So, in general, although obedience class requires a bit of preparation and concentration, I am noticing improvements..

Hope this helps a bit.

[aussielover]

Thanks everyone for your opinions and sharing your experiences.

I will of course contact guide dogs, however, it is quite hard, puppy raising staff are only generally available on fridays as they do house visits etc during the week.

But the next class isn't until tuesday anyway so that should be fine.

She is already in one puppy class that i am very happy with and she loves it, so it is not the end of the world if we don't go to obedience.

[Mas1981]

Hi there,

I took Mason straight from puppy class into obedience class ( its how our club works), I battled a bit at first as he was so hyper and full on around other dogs, but I have continued to go and at 16 months he is a lot better ( not perfect by any means, he is soo excited when we first arrive).

From what I understand about guide dogs, they basically want you to expose them to as many situations as possible, so I would chat to the guide dog people and ask them about it. Do you think she is stressed out as in afraid or just really really excited??

[Lab lady]

Do you think she is stressed out as in afraid or just really really excited??

That was my thought as well, sounds like she is getting over excited rather than stressed.

Can you not go to training but instead of joining the class do your own thing on the side lines where you would still get the advantage of the working with distractions around her.

[Tubbles]

Hi Aussie Lover,

My Baby girl is around the same age as yours.

She did her first 4 weeks of puppy school and loved it.

She's almost completed her first four weeks of basic obedience and we're planning to continue.

Your class sounds quite different to ours though.

The dogs are generally calm and so far friendly.

Classes are divided into small groups of four or five. Class starts fairly promptly and usually comprises short chats interspersed with longer practices sessions.

Our trainer spends a lot of time walking around the group checking that each exercise is performed correctly and providing advice or assistance as required.

We do a little bit of socialising and then head home. Mischa usually heads straight for her crate for a few hours afterwards!

Maybe you could check out some other dog obedience classes in your area.

The other thing we discovered was doggy daycare!

Mischa loves it and does the Cathy Freemen sprint to get to her section the moment we get in.

She spends the entire day playing and socialising with her doggy mates under supervision and comes home tired and relaxed.

The big positive for us is that she is extremely comfortable around other dogs.

[aussielover]

I would say she is more over excited. She did try to pull me away from the class though, I think it was probably to get to the other dogs, not out of fright.

I would not think it would be a good idea for Mindy to go to doggy daycare, she is meant to practice being calm at a workplace or home etc, but it does sound like fun for your little pup!!!

She is allowed some off leash time at a dog park twice a day, where she can interact with other (friendly) dogs. She now has quite a few puppy friends around the same age as her which is terrific. I also use some of that time to do some on lead and off lead training with her (though i can see her eyeing the other dogs sometimes lol).

She is usually fine around other dogs and will often ignore ones she doesn't like the look of, even if they want to play with her!

I think it is really my problem more than hers, I found it quite boring and standing around in the freezing didn't really help much either.

Have sent an email to guide dogs asking their opinion