Red Fox Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Can a few people please advise of the basic costs involved with breeding a litter (medium/large sized breed), presuming everything goes right and the "breeder" owns both the dog and the bitch. Along with a few of the unforseen events that may occur and costs incurred if something goes wrong. I will need this info by tomorrow afternoon. If anyone would like to know the breed or the circumstances please PM me. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 It's a hard one SK, as it depends on the quality of food and level of skilled care / involvement ect. From a going wrong perspective, you can lose the litter, and or the bitch - especially for the novice who may not see danger signs if something is amiss. the vet bill could be in the many thousands, emergency ceasarian, sick pups, retained placenta/pup resulting in metritis ect. and for those many thousands - you could still lose the entire litter due to many factors. All going well - breed relevant health testing, high quality food for the pregant bitch, ultrasound, whelping box, puppy vaccinations, registrations, food, microchipping - you'd be at least up for the cost of several pups in one of those rare litters where its completely smooth sailing. I know many good breeders have spent many thousands on disaster litters that do crop up :-( fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 (edited) If everything went right, from matign to whelping to bitch rearing the pups without any hassles and the "breeder" doesn't bother with niceities such as worming the bitch, feeding her puppy food, buying/making a whelping box or feeding the puppies decent tucker I would say the minimum would be 3 or perhaps 4 bags of Cobber, Uncle Albers, Coprice or similar @ say $40 each for the pups and as extra (over and above her normal food) for the bitch. Worm the pups once (don't bother about mum) $2 per puppy but I guess you could forget about this if you wanted to. That's about it isn't it? Things going wrong..... Bitch dies in labour before you can get to the vet OR: As happened in the UK, bitch needs caesar, you can't pay up front as vet demands and they won't allow you to take the bitch elsewhere (animal welfare issue they were told) only option was to have bitch PTS with pups inside her. Bitch whelps but lack of calcium or just plain bad mothering skills means she kills them all Bitch gets eclampsia, dies or needs to be sedated and pumped full of calcium at the vet at 2am. $500 might buy you one night. Pups would probably need to be handraised, at least for a couple of days Bitch gets "black" mastitis, requires operation to repair damage (or dies in agony). ABs, surgical dressings, feeding puppies, surgery to repair damage - $1500 + time off work $$$$$ $1000 for a caesar, non-emergency, double or triple that for a larger dog and/or emergency $500 for aftercare when the stitches break, assuming no major infection Handraising pups, say $10 per week for formula per pup + $$$$$$$$$$$ for the time off work to actually manage to do this every 2-4 hours Raise pup to 6 weeks then it needs to be PTS due to nerve damage sustained at birth. My accountants heart can't stand thinking of many more Edited August 17, 2010 by Sandra777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Just heaps. As well as whats posted add on for all the extra heating, washing bedding, cleaning stuff, toys, its suprisingly a lot with pups, dew claws if need doing by vet, puppy check, vaccs, microchip. If it goes wrong just absolutely mega heaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonduca Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Always keep $2000 aside when having a litter, at a minimum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MellG Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 (edited) As with the above, ask the inexperienced breeder if they are prepared for the heart ache of loosing an entire litter one by one from a bacterial infection, rushing them to the vets pumping their tiny little bodies full of antibiotics only to loose them, and wait for the autopsy results to find out what went wrong, only to find out it was just one of those things, nothing could have prevented it. Thousands of dollars later, heartache and tears, a very stressed bitch who doesn't understand where her babies have gone. This is a real event and happened just this week to a very dear friend of mine who has been breeding for over 12 years. Does he know what to look for when the bitch is struggling in labor and will need an emergency C section? after hours emergency vet care will be a minimum of 2 grand. Does he know how to give injections not just for mum, but for those puppies if they require antibiotics or are dehydrated? what about if they end up with chest infection or fluid on the lungs, is he prepared to sit up all night to put them on a nebuliser every 2 hours and needle with antibiotics? Again a real scenario that happened to another friend this year. What if his bitch ends up with pyometra? does he know the signs? is he prepared to emergency spay her to save her life? This happens more often then you would think. Is he prepared to wash bedding everyday to ensure everything stays sanitary, is he prepared to disinfect himself and his family every time they re-enter the home to prevent the risk of the puppies getting parvo? does he know the signs of parvo? The list is endless, the sad thing is there are unethical breeders outh there who will dismiss all of this as nothing and no doubt when you are puppy farming the loss of 1 litter or the bitch is nothing, they are just business...but when you love your dogs, and are breeding for love and not money the above scenarios will and should break your heart. Edited August 18, 2010 by MellG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Great post MelG fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amstaffchick Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Oh no Mell did she lose the last little boy too? So sad RIP little ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 (edited) Well written MellG breding can be very heart breaking... I have only had 4 litters now and I can honestly say I have had the baptism of fire....what you have written above is what I have already gone though and then some - but luckily I have not lost a bitch (hope I never do) Knowing when to go to the vet is very important. I have have only bred 2 bitches - twice each and they are now retired from breeding. I had written out a "novel" with my experiences but I doubt most new people would ever believe it. Quick run down on what we have faced with 2 bitches and 4 litters... Conception and pregnancy is easy - both bitches need extra food from 4 weeks and depending on breed costs will vary greatly. Also cost of whelping kit, box, heating, bedding, worming, vaccinating, microchipping and all the extras you figure out along the way. Rottweiler - Uterine Inertia - had it both times. Emergency C Sections x 1 in business hours was $1200 x 1 AH emergency clinic $2100. 1st litter - 9 pups delivered, 1 dead at birth, 1 pts at 7 wks old. Mastitis - em clinic $330 - hours later to our vet and she had surgery to repair damage another $350 - more AB's needed so extra $80 (countless trips to vet (not local) for check up and to monitor lump trying to prevent mastitis) 2nd litter was 6 days premature and I could write a book on problems we faced - 8 delivered - 5 born live - only 3 survived. Prem labor was trigged by death of a pup several days earlier. Pug - 1st litter was perfect and expenses were minimum. 5 puppies. 2nd litter - AH em c section at $2200. Everything was going well but did not progress enough so off to AH vet clinic - vet gave me the choice of drugs and wait or c section - I opted for c section because I felt she had been though enough already - good choice - 1st pup was stuck and was unable to deliver naturally. 3 pups delivered - 2 died within the hour unable to be revived - only 1 pup survived. Mum did not show much interest in pup and I am hand raising him now. Bottle fed every 2 - 3 hrs day/night. If you add loss of income (unable to work) to this as well you can see I am greatly out of pocket. Both bitches are now retired from breeding. Tell your friend - good luck because they will need it and have at least $2000 just for starters. ETA: fix mistakes. and again - more mistakes Edited August 18, 2010 by Andisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertybrook Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 (edited) When I have people ask me this I say...... " how long is a piece of string ? " lots of factors, stud fee, vet fees, food for bitch in whelp, food for babies after whelping at weaning etc, possible emergency caesar, vaccinations microchipping, and taking time off work.. the list is endless... a large breed litter may cost more than a medium breed and again depends on the circumstances. a couple of good examples... Large breed/giant litter a friend of mine had a couple of years ago, Stud fees + AI collection , stud dog In VIC bitch in QLD semen transport etc Vet fees for AI, plus ultrasounds during pregnancy extra trips to Vets when something seems to be wrong. emergency Caesar.....2 pups one live one still born... weeks off work, feeding and caring for ill bitch and one pup, one pup fit and healthy, she was sold to myself, lol :D $1000's of dollars out of pocket. Medium breed.... take bitch to stud dog 6 hour drive + overnight stay bitch at stud for two days...drive home 1 ultrasound to confirm pregnancy bitch delivers 8 healthy babies, pups weaned and fed microchipped vacc etc, all but one sold, that 1 kept here to show, funny I am not sure if I made a profit or not and I dont care, my main concern is that all babies arrive safely , the bitch is well, and they go to great happy homes! I think if any breeder stops to think about the costs and not to mention the emotional input and bloody hard work, took note it would be scary and we wouldnt breed at all !! Edited August 18, 2010 by Libertybrook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 As a general rule for medium size, medium price ($1000) pure bred dogs, you need to sell 3 puppies to pay back the outgoing costs if all goes well. That is for a natural whelping, natural mating, sire close by, health testing already done and already set up with whelping box and supplies. If you own the sire, then you might cover the costs by selling 2. If you are keeping a puppy then you generally need 4 puppies to break even on costs. If it is a first litter then set up costs and health testing needs to be done and you need to work out how you are going to advertise the litter and what that will cost. If the weather is severe you need to add in heating or cooling costs as well and they can add up quickly. Then of course there are all the things mentioned that can go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan of Arc Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Have a litter on the ground ready for their new homes now. Ran them on an extra week so I could be sure which one I really wanted to keep. COst of airfare to Syd for mating, plus mating, OH had two weeks off work, plus I had a total of 8 days off while they were really little. Petrol and time to race home and feed them everyday for last 3 weeks. Rain non stop for almost 4 weeks meant htey lived inside longer than usual so extra cleaning, ... The list goes on and that's before we address the issue of milk subsitutes, food, vet bills ..... etc etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 If all goes according to plan, she slides em out like a string of sausages - you already own a whelping box ,whelping materials and equipment , heater pads etc and you don't pay stud fees its going to cost you around $2000 to cover vets,chips, worming,registrations and incidentals per average litter. Thats also assuming you already have a breeders prefix and membership to the state CC's and you already have whatever licenses you need depending on where you live. Then you start adding in the extras according to the variables. Average costs C sections, around $600 travelling for the stud, up to 1000 Stud fees $1200 prog testing, $50 ultra sounds $100 advertising $50 stationary $100 for puppy packs ,phone bills $100 electricity for heater pads or airconditioners extra washing $100, testing $500, cleaning, sterilizing and disinfection $100. Milk re-placers, food and supplements for the bitch and litter $1000, coffee and cake for the puppy buyers ................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 And to that panadol, boxes of tissues, phone calls and research time. Yes all little minor things but gee that add. I have spent over 200 hours in the last 12months researching for my next litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridor Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 look he will let the bitch run with the dog no matter what you say, he will get a bitch with a belly full of puppies and make a motza because thats how murphys damn law works. He wont have spent a fortune prog testing, thyroid testing scanning to find no puppies and then having to consider the possibility of having the bitch speyed due to pyo. Not to mention the time spent planning the litter or the cost of panadol, wine and tissues when it all turns to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullyfan Posted August 26, 2010 Share Posted August 26, 2010 look he will let the bitch run with the dog no matter what you say, he will get a bitch with a belly full of puppies and make a motza because thats how murphys damn law works. He wont have spent a fortune prog testing, thyroid testing scanning to find no puppies and then having to consider the possibility of having the bitch speyed due to pyo. Not to mention the time spent planning the litter or the cost of panadol, wine and tissues when it all turns to hell. That's it in a nutshell!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridor Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 add more wine and tissues and panadol and large vet bill to the costs, pyo confirmed and bitch desexed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wags Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 As with the above, ask the inexperienced breeder if they are prepared for the heart ache of loosing an entire litter one by one from a bacterial infection, rushing them to the vets pumping their tiny little bodies full of antibiotics only to loose them, and wait for the autopsy results to find out what went wrong, only to find out it was just one of those things, nothing could have prevented it. Thousands of dollars later, heartache and tears, a very stressed bitch who doesn't understand where her babies have gone. This is a real event and happened just this week to a very dear friend of mine who has been breeding for over 12 years.Does he know what to look for when the bitch is struggling in labor and will need an emergency C section? after hours emergency vet care will be a minimum of 2 grand. Does he know how to give injections not just for mum, but for those puppies if they require antibiotics or are dehydrated? what about if they end up with chest infection or fluid on the lungs, is he prepared to sit up all night to put them on a nebuliser every 2 hours and needle with antibiotics? Again a real scenario that happened to another friend this year. What if his bitch ends up with pyometra? does he know the signs? is he prepared to emergency spay her to save her life? This happens more often then you would think. Is he prepared to wash bedding everyday to ensure everything stays sanitary, is he prepared to disinfect himself and his family every time they re-enter the home to prevent the risk of the puppies getting parvo? does he know the signs of parvo? The list is endless, the sad thing is there are unethical breeders outh there who will dismiss all of this as nothing and no doubt when you are puppy farming the loss of 1 litter or the bitch is nothing, they are just business...but when you love your dogs, and are breeding for love and not money the above scenarios will and should break your heart. Absolutely !!!! If a litter comes along and runs smoothly, one tends to be looking over a shoulder waiting for the ogre to appear - is this really happening? Even with this occurring, a minimum of $1,000 would be a conservative estimate of the costs involved. The focus is generally on the mother and her puppies costs, but one forgets to allow for the fact that all adult dogs, youngsters coming up, baby puppies that have been kept, all need ongoing feeding, care, innoculations, housing and on and on. And, if we received payment for our time and stress (yes, it's very stressful, at every stage) - well we probably would make a bit of money. Anyone who believes that breeders are pricing their puppies too high and are 'in it for the money' can't seriously be breeding is all I can say. One occassionally has a little extra to spend and the first priority is always something you've been wanting to get for the dogs - not the household or yourself - the dogs. The long-term breeders are really those that enjoy what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyn Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 As with the above, ask the inexperienced breeder if they are prepared for the heart ache of loosing an entire litter one by one from a bacterial infection, rushing them to the vets pumping their tiny little bodies full of antibiotics only to loose them, and wait for the autopsy results to find out what went wrong, only to find out it was just one of those things, nothing could have prevented it. Thousands of dollars later, heartache and tears, a very stressed bitch who doesn't understand where her babies have gone. This is a real event and happened just this week to a very dear friend of mine who has been breeding for over 12 years.Does he know what to look for when the bitch is struggling in labor and will need an emergency C section? after hours emergency vet care will be a minimum of 2 grand. Does he know how to give injections not just for mum, but for those puppies if they require antibiotics or are dehydrated? what about if they end up with chest infection or fluid on the lungs, is he prepared to sit up all night to put them on a nebuliser every 2 hours and needle with antibiotics? Again a real scenario that happened to another friend this year. What if his bitch ends up with pyometra? does he know the signs? is he prepared to emergency spay her to save her life? This happens more often then you would think. Is he prepared to wash bedding everyday to ensure everything stays sanitary, is he prepared to disinfect himself and his family every time they re-enter the home to prevent the risk of the puppies getting parvo? does he know the signs of parvo? The list is endless, the sad thing is there are unethical breeders outh there who will dismiss all of this as nothing and no doubt when you are puppy farming the loss of 1 litter or the bitch is nothing, they are just business...but when you love your dogs, and are breeding for love and not money the above scenarios will and should break your heart. Absolutely !!!! If a litter comes along and runs smoothly, one tends to be looking over a shoulder waiting for the ogre to appear - is this really happening? Even with this occurring, a minimum of $1,000 would be a conservative estimate of the costs involved. The focus is generally on the mother and her puppies costs, but one forgets to allow for the fact that all adult dogs, youngsters coming up, baby puppies that have been kept, all need ongoing feeding, care, innoculations, housing and on and on. And, if we received payment for our time and stress (yes, it's very stressful, at every stage) - well we probably would make a bit of money. Anyone who believes that breeders are pricing their puppies too high and are 'in it for the money' can't seriously be breeding is all I can say. One occassionally has a little extra to spend and the first priority is always something you've been wanting to get for the dogs - not the household or yourself - the dogs. The long-term breeders are really those that enjoy what they're doing. Have a litter of 9 3 week old Labradors on the ground costs Semen from the UK $4000 stud fee $1800 Implant $800 C- section cause $840 one big boy got VERY stuck puppy food at $143 per 20 kilo bag X 5 bags $715 Vacinations and Microchips @ $75 per pup $675 oh goodness this is depressing, I need a drink, and then people tell me I must make lots of money, and I agree, if there is anything spare it is always spent on the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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