Staranais Posted August 17, 2010 Author Share Posted August 17, 2010 Hmmm, interesting, thanks guys. I will try to get some photo & video tonight. Will be good to work out what's going on with her. Dumb question from the non-show trainer - a stacked photo is just the dog standing square, leaning slightly fowards, yes? Or is there more to it than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Hmmm, interesting, thanks guys. I will try to get some photo & video tonight. Will be good to work out what's going on with her.Dumb question from the non-show trainer - a stacked photo is just the dog standing square, leaning slightly fowards, yes? Or is there more to it than that? Not leaning forwards. Front legs straight, back legs with leg from hock to paw perpendicular to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 17, 2010 Author Share Posted August 17, 2010 Hmmm, interesting, thanks guys. I will try to get some photo & video tonight. Will be good to work out what's going on with her.Dumb question from the non-show trainer - a stacked photo is just the dog standing square, leaning slightly fowards, yes? Or is there more to it than that? Not leaning forwards. Front legs straight, back legs with leg from hock to paw perpendicular to the ground. OK thanks. We'll go dig out the clicker and give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 That is what I am after in obedience PFWeight back, front elevated and centre of gravity shifted back. Perfect illustration Driving from behind. Loved getting that from my horse - the feeling of sooooo much controlled power. And the extended trot is the ultimate expression of that controlled power engaged. Absolutely! A horse or dog cannot truely extend unless its centre of gravity is in the correct spot. The extension starts with the drive from the hindquarter. I like my dogs to work in what would be considered a collected frame for obedience, the front is higher and the hind end lower. For gaiting in the showring I want lower movement with good reach and drive, so the front is still elevated, but not as much as if I am asking for obedience work. I clicker train for gaiting and the showring and for obedience. Staranias I would think that she would break out fof the pace when she goes faster purely because when they pace their legs go to the sides more and are moving in a rounder arc. When they start to get some speed up they end up with their legs being a bit out of control so switch to the trot as it reaches more is more efficient and covers more ground. PF is correct in saying it is very hard for them to pace a small circle, due the fact they use the legs on the same side when they pace they will feel like they are going to fall over on a small circle. With trotting they use the diagonals and are much more balanced and their weight is more evenly distributed, so they can do a much smaller circle. http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/profile.asp?dog=33598 This has a couple of nice stacked shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 This is Lewis heeling. You can see he has lowered his back and and is driving from behind and therefore his front end has lightened and elevated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 This is an excellent link to the different types of movements... Linky here Just to note, a pace and an amble are not the same thing. An amble is a desired movement in Old English Sheepdogs, for example, but it is only really seen well during transition between a walk and a trot. They believe that pacing is an acceptable movement in the breed due to the nature of their work (droving at the rear of the sheep for very long distances requires a less strenuous gait) You can definitely feel the difference between a correct trot and a pace through the lead. My Weimaraner has been known to pace and for her i have found that it is mostly due to laziness, but there are some dogs out there that pace due to incorrect conformation, as Poodlefan has explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 17, 2010 Author Share Posted August 17, 2010 This stacking stuff is harder than it looks! Not sure if either of these are quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Nearly but not quite! You want the legs in line from the side ( ie when you look at the dog from the side you only see two legs!), The bottom photo, the back leg on the side closest to camera is almost right, hock to foot needs to be perpendicular to the ground. IT is very hard when you are trying to do it by yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 17, 2010 Author Share Posted August 17, 2010 Nearly but not quite!You want the legs in line from the side ( ie when you look at the dog from the side you only see two legs!), The bottom photo, the back leg on the side closest to camera is almost right, hock to foot needs to be perpendicular to the ground. IT is very hard when you are trying to do it by yourself Especially when she keeps breaking her stand to come over and see what it is I'm doing with the camera! In her credit, she's never done a stand stay before we took those photos, so it's a miracle she stayed still that long at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 More like this Her outside front leg is slightly forward of where it should idealy be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Nearly but not quite!You want the legs in line from the side ( ie when you look at the dog from the side you only see two legs!), The bottom photo, the back leg on the side closest to camera is almost right, hock to foot needs to be perpendicular to the ground. IT is very hard when you are trying to do it by yourself Especially when she keeps breaking her stand to come over and see what it is I'm doing with the camera! In her credit, she's never done a stand stay before we took those photos, so it's a miracle she stayed still that long at all. It is hard enough when they DO know what a stand stay and being stacked are. IT really needs two people to make it easier. The other thing to do is to try and take a photo when she is watching a bird or something that really interests her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 17, 2010 Author Share Posted August 17, 2010 Oh that's a good idea. I'll have to have another bash tomorrow when the light comes back. Just uploading some video of her going up & down. She seems to break into a trot from a pace if I get her to go faster, so perhaps she's a pacer when she's going too slow for a trot & too fast for a walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 17, 2010 Author Share Posted August 17, 2010 Here we go. I've shown her going past the camera doing a walk/slow pace, a pace, and a trot. All are shown at regular speed then slow-mo. Pretty sure she's trotting when we go faster, pacing when we go slower. Interesting! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uz7y4CWgiU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 This stacking stuff is harder than it looks! Not sure if either of these are quite right. Is it the angle of the photo or is her left elbow rotated out slightly? It may be from watching too hard and trying to find something but at around 0.46 in your vid it looks like she throws that elbow out again slightly. Which shoulder did she have the op on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 This is from a horse persepective so feel free to boo me if I am wrong but when we were retraining an of the track pacing harness horse it was easier for him to pace becasue he lacked the muscles along his spine (his topline) required for the trotting movement after pacing for so long. We had to build up the muscles before he could comfortably trot for long periods of time. I wish I had pic but I don't. I don't know what a Belgians topline should look like though it does look a bit hollow to me (could be the way the dog is standing) and this could be a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Diesel paces too. Not sure why. He did break a leg at 6 months. There is nothing to your girl is there Staranais! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 17, 2010 Author Share Posted August 17, 2010 (edited) Good spotting Jigsaw! Not sure it's an actual rotation or just looks like that on the video, I'll observe when I run her with the bike tomorrow. But you're right, it was the LHS shoulder. She still has a very slight limp on that shoulder & may always have a tiny one, but it shouldn't stop her working or slow her down any. Might just be the way she's standing, ValleyCBR? I can't feel any atrophy on her LHS any more, but she probably has lost a little muscle mass generally since she was on crate rest for a month back in May. We're only starting slowly with the exercise again, & this week is the first week I've taken her trotting. If it is a muscle mass thing, hopefully it will resolve as she gets stronger. ETA - hey Kavik, she's the perfect size! She's ended up weighing almost exactly half what I do. We do a party trick where she rides on my shoulders - couldn't do that with a GSD. Your boy is handsome though! Edited August 17, 2010 by Staranais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 Good spotting Jigsaw! Not sure if's an actual rotation or just looks like that on the video, I'll observe when I run her with the bike tomorrow. But you're right, it was the LHS shoulder. She still has a very slight limp on that shoulder & may always have a tiny one, but it shouldn't stop her working or slow her down any. Might just be the way she's standing, ValleyCBR? I can't feel any atrophy on her LHS any more, but she probably has lost a little muscle mass generally since she was on crate rest for a month back in May. We're only starting slowly with the exercise again, & this week is the first week I've taken her trotting. If it is a muscle mass thing, hopefully it will resolve as she gets stronger. ETA - hey Kavik, she's the perfect size! She weights almost exactly half what I do. We do a party trick where she rides on my shoulders. Your boy is handsome though! For building topline in horses we used hillwork and boggy (but soft) sand. This probably isn't relevant though.. Just thought you might appreciate any random suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 17, 2010 Author Share Posted August 17, 2010 For building topline in horses we used hillwork and boggy (but soft) sand. This probably isn't relevant though.. Just thought you might appreciate any random suggestion LOL, thanks. We still have 3 months to go before we can do exciting stuff again (jumping, running, hiking), but might give your ideas a go after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 She doesn't appear to be really reaching with her front, although that could be because she has not built her muscle back up again, and she is also looking at you nicely, so that may be the cause as well?? She is pacing when you are going slower but I think that is more the fact she can and she is a reasonable size and it would be easier than trotting at that pace. SHe is trotting quite evenly but doesn't appear to be really reaching or driving as yet. It may be lack of condition, immaturity or she is worried about pain/has fallen into the habit of moving with less drive as more hurt her shoulder. I think with some road word and a little time she will improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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