My Pups Breeder Makes Me Feel Bad

[loveisashihtzu]

I'm having a bit of a dilema at the moment, i bought a pedigree shihtzu puppy last sunday night and according to the breeder, everything i am doing with my puppy is either cruel or wrong..

The day after i bought my pup the breeder rings me up to see how he's going, i mentioned that im crate training him and she was shocked by that and said its mighty cruel, i didn't know what to say so i asked what she recommended, her response was put him in the laundry with his bed and food/water..

He is only crated at night time and whenever im not home which is a max of 2 hours during the day. I dont see anything cruel about it or any different to locking him in a laundry :D

I have also started weaning him off advance puppy dry food and onto a brand i personally think is better, Royal Cannin Shihtzu Junior, which is also a big no no and he needs to stay on advance!

I feed him the occasional chicken wing - supervised of course and apparently raw meat will give him a tummy upset and i should just stick with the tucker time roll, advance and thats it..

To be quite honest im getting so frustrated and feel like im being a bad owner.. I dont know what to say to her each time she shoots me down so i just reply back with "ok"

Am i doing a crap job with my puppy or is she expecting too much? :p

[Parkeyre]

Maybe flick her an email asking for her advice, and saying you will take it all onboard and then decide from there what you feel is the best thing for your dog.

I'd try not to upset though, she did just spend 8 weeks raising this pup who she probably cares very much about.

[Dju]

Well imo neither of them are absolutely fantastic dog food choices but Advance is definitely 100x worse than Royan Canin. This information alone makes me wonder if your breeder knows what they're talking to me about in general...

I thought heaps of people crate-train their puppies!

IS CRATE TRAINING AN ACT OF CRUELTY - OR KINDNESS ?

As seen by Some Pet Owners :

"Its like living in jail - its cruel - I'd never put my dog in a cage." For many typical pet owners, this is their first reaction. Being human beings, who value freedom, they envision crates a inhumane. Considering your pet as an extension of your human family, you do not wish to inflict unjust punishment upon your 4 legged child. Ask yourself if you would raise a child without a playpen or a crib to sleep in ?

As Perceived by the Dog :

"I love having a place of my own; I have my blanket, my favorite toys, no body bothers me in here, it's all mine." OK, so this isn't a direct quote, but try to see a crate from another point of view. Dogs have a den instinct. The dog crate helps to satisfy this instinct. You see it as closed in - he sees it a security. You may object to being controlled - he only wants to please you and do whatever you wish.

To you it is a "cage" - to him it is "home."

From this website. My breeder told me to get a crate as well because she said that dogs think of it as their special little cave.

[Tilly]

I had never had much to do with crate training until I got my last pup ... and I think they are fantastic.

My youngest will happily stay in his crate for most of the day and doesn't fuss - he just lays down and relaxes. It was great when he had a foot injury and needed to be restricted until the paw healed. I can even take him camping and know he isn't going to be stressed when he needs to be confined.

Our older boy (who isn't crate trained) was a nightmare when he had an extended stay in hospital - he hated being confined and became more and more frustrated and aggressive.

I did find it interested on "me or the dog" the other day that they didn't recommend the crate as it was "boring and cruel" to confine the dog. Previously that would have been my view but aftering having a lovely crate trained dog - they are wonderful

As far as the food - you should feed what your dog does best on. I have previously fed dry food but found our dogs now do so much better on raw. Other dogs do well on one brand of food but not so good on another - only you can make that decision.

[cowanbree]

As a breeder it can be hard to let go esp when people do things you don't really apporve of. Give her some time, she will lighten up and will be a very valuable source of information down the track - at least she cares.

Must say though I wouldn't be that happy with you changing the diet of a puppy you have had less than a week either. Going to a new home is a big enough change without a diet change as well. I always say stick to the diet supplied for at least a month and then change it to suit your house slowly

[dancinbcs]

As a breeder it can be hard to let go esp when people do things you don't really apporve of. Give her some time, she will lighten up and will be a very valuable source of information down the track - at least she cares.

Must say though I wouldn't be that happy with you changing the diet of a puppy you have had less than a week either. Going to a new home is a big enough change without a diet change as well. I always say stick to the diet supplied for at least a month and then change it to suit your house slowly

x2

[Dogsfevr]

As a breeder it can be hard to let go esp when people do things you don't really apporve of. Give her some time, she will lighten up and will be a very valuable source of information down the track - at least she cares.

Must say though I wouldn't be that happy with you changing the diet of a puppy you have had less than a week either. Going to a new home is a big enough change without a diet change as well. I always say stick to the diet supplied for at least a month and then change it to suit your house slowly

x2

Totally agree with this & it is one of the very frustrating aspects of being a breeder when you send them home with a diet sheet that they have been doing well on & they go to there new home & it is changed so quickly .

My i ask was the diet sheet designed through the ages or a starter one & then did it say add food gradually??

Most breeders recommend the diet is maintained until pup has settled & then slowly adding new foods so the tummy is able to cope with change.

You have to appreciate if your pup had the runs you would most likely phone the breeder straight away for advice or with your concerns

Djubre maybe you could suggest a diet for a Shih tzu??

[OSoSwift]

Your breeder will have her own views and reasons for doing or not doing things. This does not make her wrong and it does not make yourself wrong either, just different from each other.

Some people do have the misguided notion that crates are cruel, it is her view, not one I agree with, but that is how she feels.

You are not a bad owner and maybe your breeder is finding it a little hard to let go of her baby - that is in my opinion quite normal as well.

I personally would not change a puppies diet quite so soon either. I usually leave it AT LEAST a fortnight if not a month with a month being what I usually do ( I would only change it more quickly if the diet was woefully inadequate for a growing puppy).

If you wish to keep crate training, and I would, just don't mention it again, you know she doesn't like it, so leave it out of the conversation.

You will both get to know each other over time and the relationship will become easier. Stay in contact, your breeder will be a mountain of knowledge and an ear when you need it.

Like all relationships, they take time. Goodluck.

[angelsun]

I do not see anything wrong with what you are doing for you new pup. Crate training is amazing and I'm all for it....food change isn't a big drama if you go easy and pay attention to how it reacts to your dog. (would rather see you switch to raw/natural, but everyone has to do what they feel is best)

This is YOUR dog now and although the breeder brought it into the world, they don't always know what is best.

Angelsun

A breeder who has seen many others still living in caves when it comes to how to manage the dogs they breed.

[Kirislin]

It's hard, you want to maintain a relationship with her and I am sure you want her to feel like she's sold the puppy to someone who will cherish it for its lifetime, and she probably has! She just doesn't do think like you.

I also agree with you crate training, I'd never had one until I got Penny whippet but now I have 3, and although they haven't been used in ages, I always have them on hand in case of injury or illness where a dog has to be confined. If they're already used to one they wont stress.

The only thing I've been told about chicken, and I dont know if it's right or not, is to not feed raw chicken to very young pups because of the bacteria in it. I have friends (experienced breeders) who recommend waiting until the pup is at least 3 months old.

I hope you can manage to deflect her strong opinions but still keep her as an ally in case you ever really need her. Good luck

[Nekhbet]

I dont see any problems with it, you're slowly changing the food onto something superior. If it was me, if she's being genuinely rude then I would simply keep contact to a minimum. It's not fair to say crate training is cruel and make you feel bad when you're obviously putting in a lot of time, money and effort into this new pup. It's not as if you've thrown the pup outside to sleep and feeding it Pal.

[poodlemum]

If crate training is cruel, why does Harrison go into his crate of his own accord? I always leave the door open and if he's feeling like a snooze or there are too many people about whom he doesn't know - he retreats to the crate as his "safe haven"

[ellz]

It concerns me greatly when breeders of long-coated dogs don't agree with crate training!! Considering that the vast majority of them will end up at a dog grooming salon at some stage and will then generally be caged for at least a few hours, I would hope that that the breeders (and owners) would realise that advance crate training makes for a more relaxed and happy dog and a much easier job for the groomer!

As for raw chicken, my puppies get raw chicken wings and necks from 3 weeks of age onwards. Pretty much as soon as they have teeth, they get chicken bones. Supervision is of course required, but the average puppy is more than capable of disposing of chicken pretty swiftly.

[minxy]

I'm sorry that you are feeling so bad about this. I'm sure the last thing you want is anyone thinking you're not doing the right thing by your pup. None of what you are doing is "cruel" or should be judged as bad - they're just different choices to what your breeder might make. That doesn't make them wrong. I think crate training is fantastic and less stressful than trying to toilet train etc without one. As for food, well it's up to you and your vet to determine how well your pup thrives on its food. I probably would have waited a little bit before changing his food, but I do think it's reasonable for you to make your own decisions on what you feed him. Unless your breeder specified a good need for any particular diet, then I don't see anything wrong with trying something else. You'll soon know whether you've made the right choice for your pup.

Good luck, and don't worry too much about it. I know that you want to have a good relationship with your breeder, but at the end of the day the pup is now your responsibility to raise, and you need to do so in a way that suits you and your lifestyle best. (And of course, what works best for your puppy)

[aussielover]

I actually think the crate is better for short periods of confinement, because the pup isn't isolated from you, he can still see you he is not under your feet or doing anything potentially naughty.

Where as in the laundary, pup can't be included/see the activities his humans are doing and may stress.

As long as you are changing the diet gradually, to a food that is equal or better than the breeders food, I see no problem.

However, perhaps she has found thru experience that advance works best for her dogs. Some dogs do better on different brands of food, so I wouldn't change the diet unless you have noticed puppy is not doing well on the existing one.

ETA: he looks very cheeky

Edited August 15, 2010 by aussielover

[Dogsfevr]

Does this breeder show??

Could be a reason for the crate thing if they don't??

[Christina]

Cute baby

The breeder is having a problem letting go & you feel probably feel like someone is trying to take over your new baby.

Its reasonable to expect contact after a day or so to know that all is going well & pup is happy but it is your puppy now.

Change of diet is your choice, it is your dog, there is no exact right one, its what the dog does well on.

Everyone has their own best diet opinion.

Advice on a gradual change is valid or tummy upsets can start but it shouldn't take a month.

Mixing a little of the new in with the regular is the way to start & gradually increase the new phasing out the old.

The only thing I don't like about crating is trusting that a person gives the dog enough freedom however some form of containment, crate, larger puppy pen, puppy proof room etc, is best.

You would not leave a young child to roam the house alone for safety issues, same applies to a puppy.

Try & have less contact & maybe a few white lies may help if the contact & questions get too persistent, frequent & intrusive.

Sounds like all is ok, pup is happy & you are being kind & sensible, so no feeling bad. All is well

[loveisashihtzu]

As far as diet goes, yes i am slowly changing over the kibble, im adding a bit of RC to the advance each day but theres still much more advance in the bowl, is that about right? and for the person who asked if my breeder shows, yes she does, she was actually at a show the day i bought him, why is that?

[TsarsMum]

hugs that must be soo hard to feel like that. maybe just keep it to email, say how he is and leave it at that. not too much detail

PS i dont think anything you are doing is bad

[Paganman]

and for the person who asked if my breeder shows, yes she does, she was actually at a show the day i bought him, why is that?

Didnt she have her dogs in a crate or a trolly at the show?