Becoming A Breeder

[kchogan]

hi i want to become a breeder, i have done a lot of research but i still have one question.

do i have to have a breeders prefix before i buy a bitch?

the only reason i ask is because you pay to become a breeder but you could be waiting months or longer for the right pup to be available.

any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Rysup]

No you dont need a prefix in order to buy a bitch.

Most people do it the other way. But then most people also dont just decide they want to be a breeder. It's something they come to after starting out showing their dogs.

I am not sure you will get much help on DOL if you just plan to breed. You are better to start out with a show puppy, show her, see how you go, before you decide to breed. Its not as simple as it seems.

[Bokezu]

I find it strange you haven't even got a dog of your chosen breed yet, but you have decided you want to breed.

You need to have your breed for a few years to understand what they are like, you need to show your first dog so you know what the standard requires and what you are doing regarding your breed, you need to put the right dog with your bitch to improve on the breed standard. Why do you want to breed? Its not as simple as you think, requires lots of time owning and understanding your chosen breed before you should attempt breeding JMO

[kchogan]

just to clarify a few things.

1. i do have a chosen breed in mind (ckcs), i owned one when i was younger, my parents own a couple witch i am around all the time, and have been researching the breed, breeding and showing for over a year.

2. i do intend to show but unless i have gotten my info wrong(witch does happen) you only need to be a member of dogs qld to show but need a breeders prefix to breed.

if i am wrong please correct me as i want the right info as i am sure you can understand

[Gretel]

Why do you want to breed?

[kchogan]

why i want to breed (in no order)

1. for the love of the breed

2. not breeding from dogs with genetic conditions.

the ckcs that i had when i was a child passed away from sm, i also know of people who have the same condition in there dogs and they got there dogs from reputable breeders. this problem seems to becoming more common in Australia than it used to and i wish to do my part in getting rid of this disease as well of others. although sm has not been proven 100% to be genetic all you need to do is look at the history and do the math.

3. to keep the breed standerds

[Sandra777]

3. to keep the breed standerds

The term is Breed Standard. ""breed standards" is a bastardisation used by people who don't know better - which no longer includes you

Your parents have been showing for a year or you have been showing their dogs for a year (I think you mean the former but maybe not)

First step would be to go to shows, perhaps even show one of their dogs if you aren't already. ETA: check if you have to be a member to actually go in the ring or not - I can never remember. Get yourself known in the breed and make it known that you want to buy a quality bitch with a view to breeding if she is worthy, but primarily as a show dog and companion.

No you don't need to have a prefix to show or to buy a puppy.

You don't even need to be a member of the CCC to buy a puppy, so if saving some money matters you can wait to do this until after you find your bitch.

You won't need a prefix for at least a year so don't worry about that until you know the bitch you have bought is actually worth breeding from - and it's perfectly possible that the first bitch you buy won't be.

Be prepared for a long apprenticeship - especially in a breed so abused by puppy farmers. Approaching a breeder and saying I want to buy a bitch to breed from will almost certainly get you cut dead by any ethical breeder.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Sandra777

[Dogsfevr]

why i want to breed (in no order)

1. for the love of the breed

2. not breeding from dogs with genetic conditions.

the ckcs that i had when i was a child passed away from sm, i also know of people who have the same condition in there dogs and they got there dogs from reputable breeders. this problem seems to becoming more common in Australia than it used to and i wish to do my part in getting rid of this disease as well of others. although sm has not been proven 100% to be genetic all you need to do is look at the history and do the math.

3. to keep the breed standerds

Remember one thing these reputable breeders who have had issues are also striving very hard to stamp the issue out & this is after years of experience & understanding pedigrees.

If you think by being a breeder you wont ever breed an issue you may be in a shock & a good breeder is one that also is aware there not immune to breeding an issue despite the best of efforts,testing & planning.

what is sm??

I now MV is a massive issue & they are mow testing for another issues that is extremely rare in Australia but not aware of the abbreviation of SM

[SwaY]

not aware of the abbreviation of SM

SM - Syringomyelia

[Dogsfevr]

not aware of the abbreviation of SM

SM - Syringomyelia

That's what i thought .(re the other condition)

kchogan the people you now with it did they have the MRI to confirm & send there breeding to the cavie club database??

Although i find it odd you mention SM but not heart as your main reason ??

[Bonduca]

I will say only this to you. I hope you have

1. Great stamina

2. A tough hide

3. And a BIG wallet

If you have all these then you are born to be a breeder and will be able to move forward with bettering your choosen breed if not you could find yourself driven to near exhaustion should anything happen to your bitch or the pups throughout the whelping process and beyond and if you do not have a tough hide you may only have the one litter as the heartache may get the better of you and should all of the above go wrong you're going to need that BIG wallet. :D

[Bob]

Hi KC,

I am very happy to see you here being upfront and honest in regards to your plans.

I am sorry that there only seem to be nay-sayers with plenty of negativity rather than good breeders/members offering you encouragement. Everyone knows that we have far too few new people coming into the fancy with the desire to "further the breed".

I do hope that some of the longer serving, less negative people we have on here who do have the long term interest of your chosen breed at heart contact you and provide some positive encouragement.

Stay true to your dreams.

Regards,

[kchogan]

i would like to thank you all for your feedback,

although i do know that cavs have a lot of issues however as i have stated the dog i owned when i was younger had sm so it affected me personally.

i also know that a lot of breeders are doing there best to weed out these diseases however i believe that the more people who join together the grater the success can be.

the people i do know that have got it have had mri's done to confirm however i am not sure if they have informed the club, i will find out, i do know that they have however informed the breeder.

[Christina]

Hi KC,

I am very happy to see you here being upfront and honest in regards to your plans.

I am sorry that there only seem to be nay-sayers with plenty of negativity rather than good breeders/members offering you encouragement. Everyone knows that we have far too few new people coming into the fancy with the desire to "further the breed".

I do hope that some of the longer serving, less negative people we have on here who do have the long term interest of your chosen breed at heart contact you and provide some positive encouragement.

Stay true to your dreams.

Regards,

Good post.

As long as you go into into it prepared, with knowledge & with eyes wide open. Good luck.

No one starts off knowing everything & mistakes/ the unexpected can occur no matter how experienced a breeder is.

[Bokezu]

I may sound negative to you Bob.....but there are a lot of people breeding now that are doing it for the wrong reasons. One breed has well over 100 puppy notices on Dol and 711 breeders listed and the Cavs (the breed the op is interested in) has 343 breeders listed and 58 puppy notices atm.... I worry about all these puppies, some from breeders that haven't got a clue...don't do any health testing etc and are in it purely for the money, not saying the op is in that league at all. There are plenty of breeders around out there, and some are unfortunately breeding lots and lots of puppies with no thought to improving the breed, just see it as easy money. My apologies to kchogan for sounding negative.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Bokezu

[Bob]

Hi Bokezu,

I am well aware that there are many breeding for the wrong reasons, or just for the $$$.

How many of them sought help and there was nothing forthcoming.

We can't have it both ways. We have to help those that are asking for it and take them on good faith.

Regards,

[Dogsfevr]

Hi KC,

I am very happy to see you here being upfront and honest in regards to your plans.

I am sorry that there only seem to be nay-sayers with plenty of negativity rather than good breeders/members offering you encouragement. Everyone knows that we have far too few new people coming into the fancy with the desire to "further the breed".

I do hope that some of the longer serving, less negative people we have on here who do have the long term interest of your chosen breed at heart contact you and provide some positive encouragement.

Stay true to your dreams.

Regards,

No one has been negative at all & i don't see why anyone should say well done of you go & breed & i am sure the OP also doesn't want that ??

They have asked a question it has been answered

The cavie breeders with great ethics have gone to alot of expense to ensure there breeding stock is clear & weeding out the good & the bad.

I applaud anyone who wishes to strive for that BUT they also must realize that there are breeder's already out there doing exactly that

SM isn't as common as it is made out to be & many vets have no clue how to diagnosis it & the only way a correct diagnosis is via MRI

After the BBC doco the SM issue went crazy with people heading to the vets claiming there dogs had it when they didn't.

When the initial testing started in NSW i now a number of breeders started the ball rolling at enormous expense.

The cost has come down slightly but it is still a very expensive exercise to test stock but they are slowly getting there.

If you wish to breed & weed out SM then the only way people are made aware of the lines with issues is to have them on the database so your friend if they have the dogs pedigree's should contact the club .

The breeder may have already done & they certainly should have done it

[ozwildflower]

I believe that finding an experienced mentor in one's chosen breed, before venturing into breeding, is really important. I have 2 people who have far, far more experience than I can hope to get in my lifetime and I rely on them for advice. This was not a sudden process - it grew over a few years - and I am very grateful to them for trusting me enough to give me all the help that they have.

Maybe that is the first thing - you have to show an experienced, ethical breeder that you are trustworthy and willing to listen and follow advice.

It is a sign of the times that most folk who show/breed are feeling wary of people coming along saying they want to breed, however, having said that, I've been somewhat taken aback, at shows, by the reaction from many towards the public asking questions. I think anyone with any knowledge needs to educate at every opportunity.

Good Luck!

[LizT]

It's good to have goals and a dream.

Take your time and learn as much as you can about the breed (choose your mentors CAREFULLY) but understand that the best intentions and breeding program, using sound healthy screened animals doesn't mean that you won't at some point encounter breed problems and the associated heartache.

Just out of curiosity. How many years ago did your dog die of SM?

Was it PTS due to symptoms resulting in a diagnosis by a Vet or had it had an MRI (which is extremely expensive and hasn't been available for that many years?) I'm just really curious as this is a subject that has been spoken about amongst the Cavalier Breeders I have come to know in the past three years (my mentors) and my Vets. Very,very few cases have been diagnosed in Australia compared to the large quantity of pet Cavalier in this country. In 30 years my Vet has only seen one case and he has treated many Cavaliers.

As stated previously in this thread SM isn't the main health issue associated with the CKCS. Subluxating patellars, Mitral valve disease and heritary eye conditions such as retinal dysplasia are of more concern. Also it is not restricted to the CKCS but is present in other toy breeds also.

Yes, there are alot of Cavalier breeders out there. They are a very popular dog. And I have also noted that some breeders are breeding ALOT of litters each year/month . But there does appear to be a demand and many have waiting lists because they breed responsibly, sadly there are also alot of BYB who have woken up to the popularity of this lovely little dog. Fortunately they rarely turn up at the dog shelters and pounds, and if they do they get rehomed very sucessfully.

I commend you for wanting to learn to try to do things responsibly.

I hope you're okay talking about this as I don't wish to upset you.

Edited August 19, 2010 by LizT

[Steve]

How wonderful - a new kid ! There is no such thing as the right or wrong reason to breed dogs and it will depend on who you are speaking with as to what THEY think are the only reasons you should have to give it a go.

Breeding dogs is really about knowing what you would like to get out of it and what the risk factors are and what you are prepared to compromise on in order to get what you would like your outcome to be.

We offer a course and lots of support if you are serious about wanting to breed dogs which will walk you through the ethics and what you need to know so you dont muck it up for either you or the dogs.

http://www.mdba.net.au/product_info.php?cP...;products_id=48