Breeding 'allergic' Dogs

[Staranais]

I just have to wonder why dogs in particular are so badly affected by allergies, there are so many of them around, yet when I had horses I had never heard of an allergic horse??

My horse lived until 27, never had allergies, was vaccinated ( more so than many horses here in oz as he had to have horse sickness and tetanus vaccines) he ate a 'commercially prepared food" and had hay and grass, was dipped and sprayed for ticks almost daily as bilary is very common in the country I am from and yet he never had a sick day in his life?? So i guess my point is what is it about dogs that makes them so prone to allergies??

Equine allergies are actually not that uncommon, either as respiratory issues (heaves), or skin issues (insect bite hypersensitivity, atopy, etc).

Each species is a little different, of course. Horses have their own common skin issues that dogs don't get. But they certainly do suffer from allergies as well.

[stormie]

I just have to wonder why dogs in particular are so badly affected by allergies, there are so many of them around, yet when I had horses I had never heard of an allergic horse??

My horse lived until 27, never had allergies, was vaccinated ( more so than many horses here in oz as he had to have horse sickness and tetanus vaccines) he ate a 'commercially prepared food" and had hay and grass, was dipped and sprayed for ticks almost daily as bilary is very common in the country I am from and yet he never had a sick day in his life?? So i guess my point is what is it about dogs that makes them so prone to allergies??

Mas - I believe allergies are relatively common in horses, too. I just don't think we hear about them so much because a) this is a dog forum ;) and b) the ratio of dog owners to horse owners is probably significantly higher. Qld Itch is pretty common, which is an allergy to the midgey bites. But yeah, if you look up horse allergies, you'll see its relatively common and they go through immunotherapy too etc.

Also, the breeding that takes place with horses is quite different. Most people that have horses don't breed and I would say that most stud owners would not breed with an allergic horse.

[persephone]

Our horse used to get hives .... ;)

[Mas1981]

I just have to wonder why dogs in particular are so badly affected by allergies, there are so many of them around, yet when I had horses I had never heard of an allergic horse??

My horse lived until 27, never had allergies, was vaccinated ( more so than many horses here in oz as he had to have horse sickness and tetanus vaccines) he ate a 'commercially prepared food" and had hay and grass, was dipped and sprayed for ticks almost daily as bilary is very common in the country I am from and yet he never had a sick day in his life?? So i guess my point is what is it about dogs that makes them so prone to allergies??

Mas - I believe allergies are relatively common in horses, too. I just don't think we hear about them so much because a) this is a dog forum ;) and b) the ratio of dog owners to horse owners is probably significantly higher. Qld Itch is pretty common, which is an allergy to the midgey bites. But yeah, if you look up horse allergies, you'll see its relatively common and they go through immunotherapy too etc.

Also, the breeding that takes place with horses is quite different. Most people that have horses don't breed and I would say that most stud owners would not breed with an allergic horse.

No, where I am from allergies in horses is very very uncommon ( actually have not heard of one and I was on a horse forum there and worked in the industry), saying that the dogs there have far far less allergies too although I do know of a few who do have.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Mas1981

[stormie]

Interesting. I've worked in a number of different riding schools/agistment places too and I'd say there was atleast one horse in each place that had an allergy of some sort.

My friend's TB is pretty allergic and she spends a lot of time over the summer months treating his skin.

[Mas1981]

Interesting. I've worked in a number of different riding schools/agistment places too and I'd say there was atleast one horse in each place that had an allergy of some sort.

My friend's TB is pretty allergic and she spends a lot of time over the summer months treating his skin.

What is also interesting is that back in south africa my husband and I never suffered hayfever but here in Perth we get it very often - some people have mentioned that the pollen count in Perth is one of the highest in the world.

[stormie]

I think too, the difference in how horses are bred is quite different to dogs. Most horses are bred for a purpose. TB's, for eg, are bred to race and need to be of utmost health. I can't imagine any breeder or trainer wanting to race an atopic horse - it would be too expensive to run and never at peak fitness. It would be likely be culled, or sold off as a pet and not bred with.

Same with with the dressage/show scene. Your horse needs to be able to work foremost, and an allergic horse is going to have a tough time concentrating when it's so itchy.

A stallion used at stud generally wants to look good too. I can't imagine anyone picking a stallion to put over their mare that has alopecia and is forever scratching. It's a lot harder to treat horse allergies because the surface area is so much bigger so I just can't see it happening very often.

Then you have the dog world, where we have so many different types of dogs. Realistically, most pets bred today are bred to look good as pets or show dogs, not really for a purpose like a work horse. In a lot of situations, looks and conformation are chosen first. Atopic dogs can have their symptoms treated far easily than a horse, so you may not know the stud dog you chose for your bitch is itchy, if the breeder doesn't tell you. If a dog or cat looks amazing and fits the standard, it is still bred, even if its a bit itchy here and there.

Look at Greyhounds though. They are bred with for a purpose to race. Anything with a health problem is generally culled, because its of no use if it can't race its best. They just don't see HD is Greys and in fact, the breed itself is pretty healthy. Racers don't want an unhealthy grey!

[Guest]

Stormie I am interested in my dogs welfare, (and my own) and that is why I try and read as much as i can about what to feed my dog, there is a lot of info on the net to read about what goes into pet foods a lot of what I read might be crap but I will keep reading and learning, and also there is enough chemicals in the air without putting it in ours or our pets bodies as well.

I have worked in the meat Industry a few years back so know what goes into the feed of animals as well.why do we have mad cow disease? a lot of food additives and chemicals are banned overseas but unfortunately Australia still continues to use them here.

our dog is fed on a raw meat and grated vegetable diet now, and also eats a lot of fruit.

I have also found cancers in the meat, mainly in lamb and chicken when I have prepared it for our dog, and I do know what cancer looks like, from having worked in the meat industry.

Naturally the pet food industry is not going to say what goes into their products.

I can remember years ago before chemicals, i never once saw a dog with allergy's and dogs lived a lot longer than they do today.

I once knew a man that used to spray weeds for a council and he ended up very ill with allergies to the spray, and don't forget councils use sprays on verges, to kill weeds .

Here is just one link to read are you feeding your dog "roadkill"-beware of some commercial dog foods

Lablove

[sas]

Oh man, please don't be so nieve Lablove.

[Mas1981]

Stormie I am interested in my dogs welfare, (and my own) and that is why I try and read as much as i can about what to feed my dog, there is a lot of info on the net to read about what goes into pet foods a lot of what I read might be crap but I will keep reading and learning, and also there is enough chemicals in the air without putting it in ours or our pets bodies as well.

I have worked in the meat Industry a few years back so know what goes into the feed of animals as well.why do we have mad cow disease? a lot of food additives and chemicals are banned overseas but unfortunately Australia still continues to use them here.

our dog is fed on a raw meat and grated vegetable diet now, and also eats a lot of fruit.

I have also found cancers in the meat, mainly in lamb and chicken when I have prepared it for our dog, and I do know what cancer looks like, from having worked in the meat industry.

Naturally the pet food industry is not going to say what goes into their products.

I can remember years ago before chemicals, i never once saw a dog with allergy's and dogs lived a lot longer than they do today.

I once knew a man that used to spray weeds for a council and he ended up very ill with allergies to the spray, and don't forget councils use sprays on verges, to kill weeds .

Here is just one link to read are you feeding your dog "roadkill"-beware of some commercial dog foods

Lablove

I cant see the link??

[Guest]

http://www.articlesbase.com/pets-articles/...ds-2865931.html

Here is the link again Mas1981

sas could you please explain what I am supposed to be nieve about?

Edited August 17, 2010 by Guest

[persephone]

lablove- is there an AUSTRALIAN site which has proof of the use of pets being used in dog food manufacture?

[stormie]

Interestingly they never actually post a link to the video the writer of that article is talking about.

Just because someone writes a story like that and puts it on the internet, it doesn't make it true. If you google 'Heroin is good for you', you'll find an article written by someone saying how great heroin is and all the benefits it has on your body.

Found this... both are on the internet, so which one is real?

Hidden Food Ingredients

Pet food manufacturers are often accused of slipping roadkill, old shoes, and all sorts of other bizarre and disagreeable things into commercial pet food. While these companies exist to make a profit and certainly do what they can do encourage the public to view their products favorably, even if this involves a little slight-of-hand when it comes to describing the content of their foods, the reality is that they are legally required to identify any ingredient they use, and there is no evidence that they ignore this requirement in any routine or egregious way. Which brings me to one off the most shocking, and farfetched, concerns about pet food:

Dead Pets in Pet Food

Soylent Green is….Rover? Probably not. Promoters of this story take a few facts and weave them into an unlikely, but shocking narrative. It is true that in some parts of the country, euthanized dogs and cats are disposed of by rendering, a process which breaks whole carcasses down into potentially useful constituents. This is usually done by commercial services, and at facilities, not associated with slaughter and rendering of the agricultural animals generally used as pet food ingredient sources. however, the practice of using rendered cattle as an ingredient in cattle feed, and the subsequent epidemic of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE, aka “Mad Cow Disease) illustrates that there are potential risks to such practices. However, from a purely economic point of view, using rendered pets as an ingredient in pet food makes no sense. Additionally, the Pet Food Institute, an industry lobby which represents the manufacturers of ~98% of commercial pet foods, specifically prohibits rendered pet ingredients in their members’ products.

FDA studies in 1998-2000 did find miniscule quantities of pentobarbital (2-32 parts per billion) in many commercial pet foods. This is an anesthetic often used to euthanize animals, and the finding provided some ammunition for those who claim dead pets have made their way into pet foods.

However, the same studies did not find any cat or dog DNA in the proteins from any of the tested foods. While the source of the pentobarbital was not identified, the best guess is that it comes from small numbers of cattle or possibly horses euthanized and then rendered and used in pet foods. In any case, follow up studies estimated the minimum amount of pentobarbital which has any measurable physiological effect and found that even the smallest dog eating large amounts of the food with the most pentobarbital could not get to this dose. So while the FDA cannot guarantee, that no rendered pet material ever makes it into any pet food, it is highly unlikely, and there is no evidence that even if this were the source of the anesthetic detected that there is any health risk associated with such miniscule amounts of the contaminate.

People concerned about such “toxins,” whether in food or vaccines, often fail to understand the concept of dose-dependent toxicity. As I’ve pointed out before, water and oxygen can kill in sufficient doses, despite being vital for life. And even an anesthetic which, when given as an overdose can kill, can be harmless in quantities measured in parts per billion.

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

I read through these posts and wonder if the old Axiom that we used to use for breeding is still around

Breed the best to the best

and hope for the best

and accept that even the best intentions can sometimes go wrong

With breeds and species with a large gene pool why do we see such a high percentage of allergic and health compromised individuals ?

with narrow gene pools within a breed then some trade off is made sometimes , but no breeder should trade off when a large gene pool is available to chose from

[persephone]

Interestingly they never actually post a link to the video the writer of that article is talking about.

OK- a link ....WARNING !

bodies being piled in drums and then carted away....about 3 min video of dog/cat bodies in a heap ...

plus a huge grinder grinding up 'something' ..plus footage of other stuff, like maggots...

No proof that I could see- ie: no footage of those bodies in the grinder ...or being placed in cans.....

*shrugs shoulders*

Edited August 17, 2010 by persephone

[Guest]

lablove- is there an AUSTRALIAN site which has proof of the use of pets being used in dog food manufacture?

Sorry Persephone I don't know but will let you know if I find one.

But it seems we do a lot of things here that the Americans do, so it wouldn't suprise me.

Stormie you will find that a lot of sites that poo poo the pharmaceutical Industry, also have important information to the public scubbed out as well, because the drug companies don't want the public to know the truth.

I am only trying to help people,by letting them know what is going on, not telling them they have to go along with what I say.

lablove

[stormie]

Well, from my experience in the industry, I can tell you that we give drugs to help animals. We give drugs to dogs with heart disease and kidney disease and it gives them quality of life and extends their life. We don't run into the corner and snigger about how we're secretly killing the animals.

I can also tell you that the animals we euth, the ones that aren't cremated, go to land fill, with all the other medical waste. They aren't rendered and aren't in pet food.

As said in my previous post, maybe overseas they are rendered, but it doesn't mean they end up in a can.

My sister works for a major pharm company in the human side and only has patient health in mind. But hey, she's obviously part of the big conspiracy we're all apart of, to make people and animals sick, so we can make money treating them.

I get where you're coming from, but you have no scientific evidence - just a bunch of internet links from no reputable sources, purely scaremongering IMO.

[persephone]

The vet where I worked - bodies were either claimed by owner, or taken and cremated /burnt by a company ....

[stormie]

The vet where I worked - bodies were either claimed by owner, or taken and cremated /burnt by a company ....

I always thought this was the case with us too, that all the bodies that the owners didn't take, were burnt, but people could have the option of having them done individually and having the ashes returned etc. Our cremation company takes all the bodies away, but apparently only the special cremates are cremated and the rest are buried. I did much prefer the idea that everything was cremated

[Guest]

Please Stormie I do know for a fact that drug companies, do give dr's free holidays and cars to sell their drugs, and have also helped a lot of them to become Dr's, and the Dr's also get $60 for every swine flu vaccination they can give people.

I can tell you I have never felt better since getting rid of all the chemical shit out of my body that the Dr's prescribed.

there ARE natural cures for our problems but the Dr's wont tell you about them because they can't make money out of them.

I am not one of those scare monger's and I am not completly nieve as to what is going on, in this corrupt world of ours. I am not saying all vets and dr's are in it for the money a lot of them are very dedicated to their work, and the animals they save.

lablove