A Good Enough Reason Not To Feed Dogs A Commercial Diet ?

[poodlefan]

removed - I don't want to debate about raw vs commercial.

Whatever works for everyone

Strangely, I thought that's exactly what this thread was about

[westielover]

removed - I don't want to debate about raw vs commercial.

Whatever works for everyone

Strangely, I thought that's exactly what this thread was about

Indeed it is poodlefan but I have lost interest in the topic hence I removed my statement which was originally a question to you.

[poodlefan]

removed - I don't want to debate about raw vs commercial.

Whatever works for everyone

Strangely, I thought that's exactly what this thread was about

Indeed it is poodlefan but I have lost interest in the topic hence I removed my statement which was originally a question to you.

Fair enough. I suppose all the dogs belonging to folk posting in this thread should thank their lucky stars that their owners care enough about them to do something other than buy the cheapest brand of food available at the supermarket and give them that.

[Dame Aussie]

Moselle - you seem to be very happy to make assumptions about people you don't know. Most people who feed commercial diets (mine is high quality, all ingredients are sourced from Australia) feed their dogs some fresh food as well. Mine get kibble in the morning, and then a raw, meaty bone in the evening. I also give them sardines and veges on occassion.

My dogs are muchloved and well cared for. I choose to spend my time training them, taking them outdoors, working on Lucy's nerves etc rather than creating my own concoction of food (there are so many different opinions as to what constitutes a balanced diet anyway). If I wanted "convenience" I certainly wouldn't have gotten dogs!

Again, BARF is not the only natural diet out there, and it certainly isn't the closest one in terms of what is "natural" for dogs - surely the prey model would win hands down.

I wonder how many BARF feeders feed their dogs a commercial diet - that is what BARF patties are after all.Runs out of thread quickly.....

I've been thinking the same thing, BARF is a commercial food, it is processed and packaged??

My dogs also get kibble but only as about 30% of their diet, they also get vegies, raw meaty bones, raw meat and fish.

[JulesP]

When I did BARF it was from the book. Those patties weren't available then.

[Guest]

Moselle I agree with of your posts. It would be interesting to know just exactly what is in the vaccinations and whether or not the ingredients in them play a part in some dogs not being able to tolerate certain foods, or grasses.

My last dog had Atopic Dermatitis, and I used to have her on cortisone when she had flare ups, but as soon as she was off the treatment it was back again, so the cortisone only treated the symptoms not the problem.

If the Lab we have now developes problems I will be looking at having him treated by a naturopath.

I did find that human Dermaveen eczema cream did help with our last dogs dermatitis.

lablove

[KitKat]

i tried barf/raw on my two GSD's i was having to feed huge amounts of food to keep any kind of weight on them - in the end we were going through several kgs each per day and the dogs were nearly skin and bone.

What do your dogs do? How many kg per dog did you have to feed?

At the time my dogs were going for hour-ish walks per day, dog training once a week, 10-15mins of training each night, Bronx would work with me in-store on one day a weekend and any play they did through the day. At once stage i was feeding up to 4-6kgs per day per dog every day - i even got them vet checked and he was surprised that they could be that skinny eating that much since they weren't in growing stages. They were getting barf mix (mulched chickens as meat based) as well as meaty bones (lamb, turkey, chicken, pork as main meats) that they could eat the entirety of, so that weight didn't include uneaten bone.

[Sheridan]

To those that say that their dog did not thrive on a BARF diet....I am left to wonder what would have happened before the advent of commercial dog food? or better still, what would have happened to such dogs if they happened to be born in the wild?

Having said this, I am not saying that people should have to feed their dog a BARF diet but I still am of the opinion that a commercial diet is chosen due to convenience. A home cooked meal or a raw diet would have to beat a commercial diet. How would fellow human beings feel if they were made to eat a diet that was totally manufactured with no fresh ingredients whatsoever?

I feed my dogs sardines and Eaglepack holistic anchovy. The reason is because I had a neverending stream of tummy troubles and diarhhea after my Grumpy came to live with me (totally different environment - did you know environment can affect a dog??). I tried loads of things and nothing worked except this, so your generalisation is simply that.

Oh, and before commercial dog food, my family fed table scraps, so they STILL would not have fed BARF because, a little history for you, Moselle, since you don't seem to know, BARF is a fairly new thing. The first time I heard of it was 1999 when I joined a wheaten email list.

So, please, cease pushing this wheelbarrow of you're totally right because this thread has already shown that you're not.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Sheridan

[Dame Aussie]

To those that say that their dog did not thrive on a BARF diet....I am left to wonder what would have happened before the advent of commercial dog food? or better still, what would have happened to such dogs if they happened to be born in the wild?

Having said this, I am not saying that people should have to feed their dog a BARF diet but I still am of the opinion that a commercial diet is chosen due to convenience. A home cooked meal or a raw diet would have to beat a commercial diet. How would fellow human beings feel if they were made to eat a diet that was totally manufactured with no fresh ingredients whatsoever?

So, please, cease pushing this wheelbarrow of you're totally right because this thread has already shown that you're not.

[~Anne~]

I often wonder, when reading the comments of those who determindedly push barf or raw diets for dogs, just how much commercial food they eat themselves and also feed their families.

McDonalds anyone? Hmmm, butter chicken? What about a jar of pasta sauce with that pasta.... or even a slice of bread? Perhaps you'd like a biscuit or muesli bar? No? What about a glass of cordial, cola or even a coffee with white sugar? A beer or wine perhaps? Lets put some of those canned peaches with some cream for dessert or grab that bar of chocolate. Now, finish off with a ciggie and all is right with the world...but damn, you make sure your dog is crammed full of natural ingredients less they get cancer or be poisoned in some other way. Commercial food for my dawg, never!

[Remarkabull]

I often wonder, when reading the comments of those who determindedly push barf or raw diets for dogs, just how much commercial food they eat themselves and also feed their families.

McDonalds anyone? Hmmm, butter chicken? What about a jar of pasta sauce with that pasta.... or even a slice of bread? Perhaps you'd like a biscuit or muesli bar? No? What about a glass of cordial, cola or even a coffee with white sugar? A beer or wine perhaps? Lets put some of those canned peaches with some cream for dessert or grab that bar of chocolate. Now, finish off with a ciggie and all is right with the world...but damn, you make sure your dog is crammed full of natural ingredients less they get cancer or be poisoned in some other way. Commercial food for my dawg, never!

I have to agree with you here. I am guilty of such things. My dogs are fed so much better than I am, I wish I had someone feeding me good quality food and only enough to keep me healthy and looking good! I don't feed barf but I do feed what I consider to be a 'decent' kibble and also alot of offal, grated raw veges and RMB's. I think people should feed their pets what works best for them, but I do think that doing some research (and not relying on the marketing of the pet food companies) is a good idea.

[Puppoochi]

If you watch a lot of docos like I do, you will know that most carnivores will eat the stomach content of a larger prey animal before eating the other bits. Now, most prey animals are herbivores so watcha reckon is gonna be in the stomach? I can guarantee it won't be raw meat or raw vegetables. What you will find in the mostpart will be partially digested vegetable matter.

If a carnivore catches a smaller prey animal, they usually eat the lot, fur nails and whatever else you can think of, all gobbled up.

My theory is variety is the spice of life.

The only health issue I have had was an infected anal gland, and I think I was feeding a bit too much chicken bone (raw of course) at that time.

I have a friend that feeds only BARF and she is forever going to the vet with her dogs. She recons I feed rubbish to my dogs because they have kibble to graze on. I'm glad I'm feeding rubbish if it keeps them away from the vet.

Barfies do preach,

BORN

AGAIN

RAW FOOD

FANATICS

Perhaps your friend's dog has health issues that are not related to diet. Not all health problems are due to diet.

Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't. I'm not the one preaching Barf, I'm am just using it as an example. You are telling me how Barf is better and with barf dogs live longer healthier lives, I have evidence, it is not.

[MonElite]

i tried barf/raw on my two GSD's i was having to feed huge amounts of food to keep any kind of weight on them - in the end we were going through several kgs each per day and the dogs were nearly skin and bone.

What do your dogs do? How many kg per dog did you have to feed?

At the time my dogs were going for hour-ish walks per day, dog training once a week, 10-15mins of training each night, Bronx would work with me in-store on one day a weekend and any play they did through the day. At once stage i was feeding up to 4-6kgs per day per dog every day - i even got them vet checked and he was surprised that they could be that skinny eating that much since they weren't in growing stages. They were getting barf mix (mulched chickens as meat based) as well as meaty bones (lamb, turkey, chicken, pork as main meats) that they could eat the entirety of, so that weight didn't include uneaten bone.

That is jsut unbelieveable. 4-6 kg for a dog that is 30-40 kg?

My dobes are about 40kg each, they do about 45min leash free running a day, two play basically non stop all day.

Training once a week, sometimes more often.

Those that play non stop eat 1-1.5kg of whatever I give them a day the one that doesnt play eats about 1kg and is always a bit fat.

My boyfriends dog - apparently mastif x ridgeback eats about 1.5kg a day, he is less active then my dobes but goes to work with the BF that is a tradie so he is up and about all day.

5kg for a GSD is insane, how much dry do you give them? 3kg each?

I often wonder, when reading the comments of those who determindedly push barf or raw diets for dogs, just how much commercial food they eat themselves and also feed their families.

McDonalds anyone? Commercial food for my dawg, never!

Funny you say that Anne.

On an odd accasion I might run out or forget to defrost stuff for my dogs natural diet. (I dont call it BARF as I have never purchased BARF patties, I just feed natual, raw ingredients) So when I forget to have raw for the dogs they are given kibble, with a can of makrel. And I always say - today them having Mc Donalds.

I dont really eat that much of commercially produced foods, never buy ready made pasta sauce, I tend to cook a lot.

I sin by eating sweets, mind you dogs get some of my sinning foods too.

All are a picture of health, and no strangers to palish sausage as a training treat

[Meea]

I grew up on a farm and my parents also owned a bakery, our dogs all got all sorts of left overs - pies, pasties, sausage rolls, bread and cakes (including cream fillings) - could not find a more unsuitable diet for dogs but they did well on it. They were fed scraps when we killed sheep for the freezer and ate cheap dry dog food. They were hardly ever wormed, flea treated and I don't think any of them were ever vaccinated past their puppy shots yet all lived well in to their mid to late teens with the odd dog reaching early 20's. I am a raw feeder now but think lifestyle has just as much impact on their health as diet.

Those dogs had plenty of exercise and even though they were fed unsuitable foods for a dog (quite often) it never hurt them.

Dog Heaven!!!!

cream buns!!!

Meea heaven!!

[KitKat]

i tried barf/raw on my two GSD's i was having to feed huge amounts of food to keep any kind of weight on them - in the end we were going through several kgs each per day and the dogs were nearly skin and bone.

What do your dogs do? How many kg per dog did you have to feed?

At the time my dogs were going for hour-ish walks per day, dog training once a week, 10-15mins of training each night, Bronx would work with me in-store on one day a weekend and any play they did through the day. At once stage i was feeding up to 4-6kgs per day per dog every day - i even got them vet checked and he was surprised that they could be that skinny eating that much since they weren't in growing stages. They were getting barf mix (mulched chickens as meat based) as well as meaty bones (lamb, turkey, chicken, pork as main meats) that they could eat the entirety of, so that weight didn't include uneaten bone.

That is jsut unbelieveable. 4-6 kg for a dog that is 30-40 kg?

My dobes are about 40kg each, they do about 45min leash free running a day, two play basically non stop all day.

Training once a week, sometimes more often.

Those that play non stop eat 1-1.5kg of whatever I give them a day the one that doesnt play eats about 1kg and is always a bit fat.

My boyfriends dog - apparently mastif x ridgeback eats about 1.5kg a day, he is less active then my dobes but goes to work with the BF that is a tradie so he is up and about all day.

5kg for a GSD is insane, how much dry do you give them? 3kg each?

Unbelieveable? no kidding! My guys were at that stage at a good weight of 40kg and 45kg - as in balls of fur and muscle, lean good weighted dogs. Hence why i don't feed them BARF anymore and won't feed them that as a diet ever again, and hence why the vet was surprised. At the worst of it the two dogs got down to basically fur, skin and bone - if it wasn't for the fluffy fur it would have looked even worse - put your hands on the dog and all you felt was fur and bone. They do this on some kibbles mind you - i tried the nutro performance and also had to feed huge amounts while they dropped weight with seemingly no matter how much food. I'd continued to up the barf/raw as i was told that they obviously just needed more barf/raw. I did that for a bit until i came to the decision that it was just stupid to be feeding that much (and paying that much for it) when they obviously weren't doing that well and decided to put them back onto Royal Canin (performance 4300 or 4800 or something?) of which they got roughly 700-800gms or so a day. Within 4 weeks they were looking and feeling great, no longer always looking hungry and i even cut back their food.

On average now they get between 400-700gms a day of kibble - one burns up his food a tad quicker then the other so he gets more. If they are getting bones as a meal they get 500gms or so for one and 600-700gms to the other.

ETA - re the telling me to feed more it was with the reasoning that the dogs processed more of the raw food and so needed more as they were obviously using/needing more then they were getting. The amounts were fed over 2-3 meals a day.

Edited August 18, 2010 by KitKat

[Andisa]

KitKat - I have been raw feeding for many years now and have been dealing with many others who do too - including GSD owners and I am stumped at the amount of food that you said you needed to feed your dogs. My Rotties are 40-45kgs and are fed a fraction of what you mentioned above and they are in good condition.

What bones were you feeding - lean or fatty meats and what bones?

Not questioning you just find it hard to imagine that dogs fed on the volume of food you stated could not hold condition - my dogs would be terribly obese on less than what you were feeding.

[KitKat]

For the most part they were getting;

lamb shanks, flaps, offcuts,

roo tails (hot huge part of diet tho),

turkey tails, necks, wings, legs,

chicken mince, legs, thighs, wings, necks, maryland, halves and whole

Beef offcuts, neck pieces

Pork feet, necks, off cuts

The mince they got as well was mostly chicken with mulched vegies, some fruit occasionally, eggs, yogurt, and offal through it all and frozen into blocks.

I've had the same issue, as i said on some kibbles, if i fed the same amount of RC/Bonnie/UA/GB/Proplan etc as i did the Nutro for example the dogs would have been the size of houses within a week or so - even they could even stomach that much food. But the Nutro, like the barf/raw, just seem to evaporate into nothing. I even got the big dog (i think it is) pre mixed barf rolls again and they were going through huge amounts of it that it just got too expensive.

And it wasn't as if one was eating the others food - as they were both skinny! And i also watched them to make sure they weren't 'sharing unevenly'!

ETA - i have nothing against raw feeding etc, and know a number of dogs who are stunning on that diet. My only issues are with people who PUSH as if anything else amounts to cruelty to the dog. I'd have issues if people were pushing a brand or type of kibble as the ONLY way to not be cruel to your dog.

ANd i'm off to give my guys their dinner of hearts and kidneys...

Edited August 18, 2010 by KitKat