A Good Enough Reason Not To Feed Dogs A Commercial Diet ?

[Moselle]

Well, I am not a fan of commercial dog food and experience has taught me that RAW or BARF is best by far. I have copied and pasted a post from another forum; it is quite lengthy but very educational, at least I seem to think so, lol. It all makes perfect sense to me.

What is Your Dog Eating?

Dog food. Yikes! Dog food. What an all encompassing ever-changing subject. Everyday I learn something new. I see something changes and what I knew to work before no longer does. I find things that were true decades ago that became obsolete, now show that there was a small kernel of truth in them. Research reveals startling pieces of the puzzle of nutrition, key information never known before that changes everything. New discoveries are made every single day and need to be incorporated into our feeding plans. How do we sort through all of this and how do we make the decisions? And so I ask, what is your dog eating? Because for us that is the most basic and most important question to ask. What is your dog eating?

If any judgements are to be made about what your dog is eating those decisions are to be made by you and your vet and most importantly your dog (the way your dog chooses does not mean which food he snarfs down with gusto, it means the food that helps your dog be as healthy as he or she can be.). My only function is to be the catalyst for your education, for your research, for your search and for your discovery of what works well for feeding your dog.

I am not a vet, nor do I play one on TV. I am not a consultant, or a practitioner of any size shape or form. I am just a middle-aged woman with a biology degree who sells dog food. It is as simple as that. I don't pretend to know everything about canine and feline nutrition. That field of research is evolving and growing every single minute. I do my best to learn about it all. And then I try to carry as many lines of dog food that offer good nutritional results for as many animals as possible. There is no one perfect dog food for every dog. There is not even one perfect dog food for the lifetime of a single dog.

Let's start by looking at the Pet Food Industry. The first commercially produced dog food was introduced in 1860. Before that dogs were never fed a food that was bought in a store. They ate what ever they could catch and scrounge for and whatever their guardians would give them. Dogs thrived on being omnivores and on either living with or staying near humans for over ten thousand years. In the 1920's and 1930's the grain industry was selling large amounts of their left over, second quality, not fit for human consumption grains to the manufacturer's of dog food. This was a boon to both the grain companies and the dog food manufacturers. It was basically a very cheap source to base the product on and it was a way to recycle what would have gone to waste.

The year was 1957 and the Purina Company developed the extrusion process. This was the innovation that turned the tide. The ability to mass produce cheap food and sanitize it from bacterial contamination was a revolution. Soon the industry grew by leaps and bounds. Today the Pet Food Industry is a multi billion dollar a year economic engine.

This industry invests in large ad campaigns using TV, radio, magazines, newspaper and all print media in order to gather larger market share and make more profit. The different companies have focus groups, marketing experts and advertising agencies working for them to sell more food every year and of course to make more profit and increase their bottom line.

According to the Animal Health Institute's Market Sales Report, October 29, 2004, animal health product sales in the United States for 2003 totaled $4.7 billion - an increase of 5.7 percent compared to 2002. This increase can be attributed to the growing dollars pet guardians are spending on improving the quality of life for their companion animal. It is also due to the concerted efforts by animal health manufacturers, who are allocating more funds to marketing and promotional activities.

Given those facts, the question that screams out at us is; is it possible to produce a fresh, balanced diet using the best cuts of meat and highest quality vegetables and do it all for under $25 a bag? The answer is unfortunately, a big resounding NO! The cheaper the product is to make the higher the profit potential becomes.

Now here is where it gets interesting. It costs the manufacturer 19 cents per pound in food ingredients to make the dog food. Onto that you must add another 10 cents a pound to cover the bag, processing, etc. for a total cost to the manufacturer of 29 cents per pound. The manufacturer needs to make a profit and his margin is 45 %. He sells it to the distributor for 53 cents per pound, plus the cost of freight that is another 6 cents per pound. The distributor needs to make his profit. His margin is 22 %. The retailer pays 75 cents per pound for the food and now he needs to make a profit too and he gets 25%. This means that the food it cost the manufacturer to make at 29 cents a pound is costing you a whopping $1.00 to buy. This is for a product made with the cheapest possible ingredients, 'pet grade' or second quality grade ingredients. To make this easy for you, the bag of food you pay $20.00 for at the store only cost $5.78 total.

What about the better quality brand of pet food that uses human quality grade chicken? That costs twice as much. The manufacturer pays 61 cents per pound and you pay $1.99 per pound. Or that same bag of food at the store that you buy for $39.99, it cost the manufacturer $12.14. You do the math. The food company makes a bigger profit on the cheaper food so of course the cheaper food is more widely advertised and sold, because more consumers are aware of the product and it saves them money to buy it. Or does it? How much more of the cheap product must you feed to get the same nutritional value as a better food? Quite a bit more actually. And how many extra vet visits will you make per year to treat symptoms caused by bad food? On average three to eight. Is that food still less expensive now?

What about what most vets are taught in school and who sponsors nutritional research. The dog food companies fund most research and they also sponsor the nutrition courses taught in vet schools. Vets also learn that their practice can have a very large profit center by selling prescription diets from those very same companies.

Most of these foods are 100% nutritionally complete. Ensure™ is 100% nutritionally complete. Does that mean we should wean our children off of breast milk onto Ensure™ and then feed them that until the day that they die? And then feed all ensuing generations Ensure™ because it is nutritionally complete? No of course not. When we look at it that way we see how foolish it is. The same applies to that bag of pet grade, grocery store bought dog food. That is the dog food equivalent to Ensure™. What do you think would happen if we raised 10 generations of human children on Ensure™? And only added in treats like candy, cookies, chips and other junk food. Would those children grow up healthy?

No of course not. What we would have is compromised health, shortened life spans, and a myriad of diseases including organ failures, diabetes, tumors, cancers and obesity. This is not normal or natural in any way shape or form. We would be treating symptoms as they express and we would not be treating the underlying causes. This would suppress symptoms and then other ones would emerge to take their place.

It is not uncommon to make five to eight vet visits a year under these circumstances. Sometimes even more trips to the vet than that. I have personally corroborated these results with a number of vets both traditional and holistic. Most recently by Ron Schultz, DVM Chairman of Pathobiology, University Madison Wisconsin. Typically an annual vet visit is ideal for your companion. More than that should ring alarm bells. These days your average pet guardian should be hearing five alarm fire bells ringing constantly. This is not normal.

Let's make this simple:

Excellent Nutrition = Good Health

Average Nutrition = Compromised Health

Bad Nutrition = Disease & Death

Nutrition is not the only component of health. The other components are important too. Genetics and environment comprise the other top factors in health for our animals.

Genetics and breeding is a large field and it too has its share of diverse opinions. I recommend looking for "hybrid vigor". The term hybrid vigor itself can be considered controversial. What I mean by it is what occurs throughout all species in the animal and plant kingdom. Unrelated animals of the same species are mated. The theory is the offspring in the first generation will be more healthy, fertile, and (in animals) mentally stable than either parent. Out-crossing is a related term. Out crossing in pure-bred dogs is the breeding of unrelated dogs. On a pedigree no names will be repeated within the first 5 generations. Out-crossing is the means to get the greatest genetic diversity. Out-crossing does not guarantee that the animals won't develop genetic disorders or have "hybrid vigor". It can reduce the numbers of affected offspring, if neither lines are carriers of a recessive gene that can cause a genetic disease. Simple lack of a common ancestor does not ensure that neither dog carries genetic disease. Hybrid Vigor only applies to the animals that are the direct offspring of the crossing of the unrelated strains.

So did all of that confuse you? Genetically speaking look for the best possible puppy you can to help your dog have a healthy life not effected by diseases that can be transferred from the parents. If you are not getting a puppy from a quality breeder what then? You open your home and your heart to an unknown rescue dog and find the dog of your dreams. The bottom line in all of this is even with the best planning of breeding you never know exactly for sure that your dog will be one hundred percent free of any genetic problems. The same is true for a dog you rescue that you have no health history available. Those are the facts that our dogs come to us with and that we can't change. The same way we can't change who our parents are but don't we wish there wasn't a history of heart problems or cancer in our genetic/family background!

The other big component of health is the environment. This is something we do have some control over. Not complete control like we do over the food we feed, but we can make some informed choices. We can choose not to spray our lawns with harsh chemicals. We can choose to only allow our dogs to romp in areas where those chemicals are not used. We can not use other harsh chemicals to clean our homes. We can not install building materials that outgas harmful residues and byproducts. We can provide a living environment as free from as much harmful and should I even say lethal products as we possible can.

I am not saying we all have to become naturalists and subscribe to Mother Earth News. But I am saying be wise on how your immediate surroundings and living environment is put together. I will give you an example from my own life. I live on almost two acres of land. It is almost all grass. My neighbors hate me. They have complained to our homeowner's association about me. Why? I absolutely refuse to put any chemicals on my lawn of any kind to kill weeds or fertilize the grass. By the time the beginning of summer rolls around, I have the most beautiful sea of yellow undulating in the summer breezes you ever saw. I have the very best dandelions growing everywhere. The tender leaves make a wonderful salad and have great health effects in terms of detoxing a liver and kidneys but I digress.

Everyone around me hates it. They all have lawn services. The grass is perfect and green and has terrible stuff spread all over it multiple times per year. Lucky for me I live on a bit of a hill and my land is elevated from all my surrounding neighbors. Before my home was here it was land that had been abandoned from farming for many, many years. So any farm chemicals had long ago leached out and anything my neighbors spread normally flows away from my higher elevation. My dogs roam freely and I don't have any fears that they are getting toxic chemical in large proportion from my yard.

The dogs that used to live on either side of me lived their entire lives on beautiful green lawns. Their guardians are obsessive about having a perfect green and manicured lawn. By the time both of these dogs were three they were experiencing serious health problems. They both died at an age that was younger than the average for their breed. One of them at not even 8 years old for a breed that averages 14 -16 years old. The other at 10. One of these dogs started getting reoccurring fatty cell tumors. It didn't matter how often you would aspirate they came back. Finally they stopped aspirating. When the poor boy passed away he had multiple tumors all over his body many the size of grapefruits and others as large as16-inch softballs. The traditional vet said all of the lawn chemicals were a contributing factor to the tumors. Ya think????? The American Veterinary Association now says lawn chemicals can cause cancer and cites a study using Westies and bladder cancer occurrence as it's source.

Other areas where you can improve the environment for your dog are number one stop smoking! Second hand smoke effects your dogs as much as your spouses and children. Not to mention what it does to you. Stay away from busy roads and vehicle exhausts. This includes riding in the back of an open pick up truck. Keep the dogs in on smoggy days. Put any toxic chemicals, cleaners, solvents and paint under lock and key in an area where your dog never goes. Brush and bath your pet regularly to keep contaminates off his fur and pads. Supply your animals with clean water. Don't just presume your tap water is safe and don't presume bottled water is safe either. Check into it, make sure and seriously consider investing in a reverse osmosis filter for not just your dogs and cats but you and your family. Everyone will benefit.

Food is the one component of the health of our dogs that we do have a very large amount of control over. Genetics we have very little, environmental we have some control around our homes, but not in the park down the street etc. Food though is the one place we can make a major difference. Do what you can about supplying a healthy environment, but concentrate on feeding your dog the best possible food. Your return on investment so to speak will pay very large dividends in the health of your companion for many years.

Let's get a little more in depth about how dog food is made and what is put into it. Let's learn what the ingredients really mean and how we can decipher the ingredients listed on the label. Let us take a look at whom if anyone regulates the pet food industry.

[Moselle]

The article below speaks volumes and basically goes to say that the Pet Food Industry is a law unto themselves, they are a free agent, free to sell whatever they see fit, fit enough to make them billions of dollars much to the dismay of unsuspecting pet lovers.

Part 2:

You are already familiar with the USDA and the FDA. They regulate the industries that produce food and drugs for us humans. You most likely think they do the same for the pet food industry. Nothing could be further from the truth. The USDA and the FDA do not govern pet food. Currently the government does not even have a set program to test commercial foods. Up until 1974 the National Research Council (NRC) set the nutritional standards. The pet food industry itself then formed the American Association of Feed Control Officials (AAFCO). They are not part of the federal government nor are its members appointed by them.

What does AAFCO do? Their main responsibility is to regulate label text and product names. They have no enforcement authority. They are a private organization and the pet food companies do not have to comply with their standards. Each of the fifty states can set their own manufacturing guidelines and some states do not even have guidelines for the foods made there such as Florida and Alaska.

Why was AAFCO formed? The industry found the NRC's regulations too restrictive and found a way to create it's own loop holes for claiming nutritional adequacy. Instead of actual feeding trials, chemical nutritional analysis would be conducted to provide the nutritional requirements. Let me restate that in English for you. AAFCO says whether a food is "complete and balanced" chemically. AAFCO does not say whether the food is palatable, digestible, or bioavailable. AAFCO provides minimum standards, not optimums. And don't forget AAFCO is run by the pet food industry. Talk about the fox in the hen house. AAFCO does not say anything about biologic value of the food. Nothing about how amino acids, vitamins, minerals and other components are digested or even if they are absorbed at all. Further more, AAFCO posses no restrictions or limits on the use of certain types of animals or the quality of the products used in making meat meals, tankage or digest. AAFCO doesn't care where it comes from at all!

In English again please! AAFCO says a protein is a protein is a protein. Where it came from they don't care. By-products come from all the left over parts. One day it is chicken feet and feathers. The next day it is tumors, euthanized or sick animals. The next it is old outdated meat still in the plastic wrap from the grocery store. The next it could be heads, hormone implants and road kill. It would be impossible to figure out what percentage each of those things represents in the mix because it changes from day to day. But regardless they are all proteins.

The guaranteed analyses you see on the pet food labels list the minimum and maximum amounts of protein, fat, moisture and fiber. This has absolutely nothing to do with the animals actual ability to digest them or absorb them or what effects that ultimately has on the animal. You could mix together some motor oil, vitamins, minerals, feathers and don't forget to throw in a bit of leather and you will meet the requirements for fat, protein and fiber. Is that plain enough English for you?

AAFCO says that labels have to list what is in the product by weight. They don't say when in that process they have to do the weighing. Companies weigh the meat raw before they make it into a kibble. "Meals" are rendered products from mammal tissues. It is what remains after fats are drawn off and dried. The processing of meals reduces the protein quality. Then the meal is cooked again to make the dog food itself. When the meat is made into a meal it is about five times lighter than raw which would make it the fourth or fifth ingredient on the label. Knowledgeable guardians want to see meat listed as the top ingredient. So, the components of the grains are broken up and listed separately. You have ground rice, rice gluten, rice flour, and rice bran all listed instead of "rice". Therefore you can now list the protein first and all the rices afterwards. Slick! Or should I say bate and switch!

We have already mentioned the use of second quality grains not fit for human consumption and the invention of the extrusion process in the short history of the dog food industry. The very nature of second quality grains means that they must be properly prepared in order for them not to be harmful to eat. Harmful bacteria must be killed or the animal consuming the food could get sick.

Cooking reduces the potency of ALL nutrients and destroys some too. Any temperature over 130 degrees causes all essential fats, fatty acids vitamins A, D, E, K and several minerals to become useless. Cooked in an extruder and forced through a die under high pressure of 600 to 700 psi and at temperatures of over 300 - 400 degrees Fahrenheit, you loose fifty to eighty percent of vitamins and nutrients. The high heat also creates heterocyclic amines and acrylamides, both are carcinogenic. Heterocyclic amines were studied and found to be one of the most potent substances to cause DNA mutations ever tested! In 2003 Lawrence Livermore National Lab found 13 out of 14 dry dog foods tested positive.

Then added are another twenty to twenty-five synthesized pure compounds versus naturally occurring vitamins. And don't forget to spray on nutrients after the extrusion. These palatability enhancers called a digest which is a result of a chemical or enzymatic reaction of animal tissue from meat, poultry or fish, therefore it is a "natural" flavor sprayed on to get the dog to eat the food.

The second quality grains are non human edible, literally the chaff. These are the parts that are separated, the fines etc. These grains also have had a much longer storage times than those used for humans. The longer storage times actually lower the cost of the grains. What happens during storage is that insects, molds and storage mites get into the grains.

Oh we're not done yet on what is going on with those grains. They have been sitting around therefore their exposure to mold spores in the air increases. Mold spores can also land on the kibble we expose to air at home after we have opened the bag.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Moselle

[Remarkabull]

I like her

I think she makes some very good points and I hope it make people think about what they feed their dogs and not fall for the marketing.

[persephone]

too long for me to read...

the less processing ANY food has, the better it is for all living creatures .

[Little Gifts]

I read it all and it makes great sense, but what I still need is some advice on what to choose! What should I be looking for in a dry? I think wet food is pretty simple - take it back to the original products, but dry? What to avoid? What to aim for? Brand suggestions? I don't think I am ready to make my own dog food biscuits in bulk.....I still need some convenience.

[Remarkabull]

I read it all and it makes great sense, but what I still need is some advice on what to choose! What should I be looking for in a dry? I think wet food is pretty simple - take it back to the original products, but dry? What to avoid? What to aim for? Brand suggestions? I don't think I am ready to make my own dog food biscuits in bulk.....I still need some convenience.

I use a combination of raw and Black Hawk Hollistic. It's not perfect but it dosn't contain corn, wheat or beet pulp which are the nasties that I really want to avoid. It is also within my price range ($80 for 20kg) as I have 5 dogs. They all love it and look fantastic, no health problems either.

ETA One of mine used to suffer from bad allergies. We think it was related to wheat as he has not had any itching since being on the Black Hawk.

Edited August 13, 2010 by dobesrock

[Kavik]

I tried raw for a while with Diesel to see if it would help with his skin, but I didn't see it make any noticeable difference. Also, I worried about getting it right, it took a long time to prepare (the vegie slop and sourcing all the bits and pieces of offal) and not that cheap either - the bits of offal were expensive. I also couldn't believe the amount I had to feed to keep any amount of weight on! I don't have a freezer dedicated to dog meat, they have to share space with the human food in the freezer, and there is no way I have enough room to keep enough food in there for them (and unless you buy in bulk it is actually expensive).

My previous dog was only fed dry food her whole life and she lived to be 17 and was very healthy until she got to be about 14/15 when age related illnesses started creeping in. Out of my current lot, the Kelpies seem to do well on whatever food I choose to feed them, I have to be more careful with Diesel who has bad skin (and I will take recommendations for foods to try!). Mine get a mix of dry and chicken wings.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i know of dogs that cant eat raw or cooked meat so articles like this arent so helpful for them

[PoppyDog]

I think that if all commercial food is REALLY that bad then there needs to be simple, easy guidelines for newbies to do with what to feed. When to feed it, how much to feed per kilo of dog, how to prepare this food.

We feed our 8 month old puppy Supercoat Puppy. When she was a few months old I found out I could start giving her bones so I did. Then I found out about minced chicken frames so I replaced her dinner with that. Then I found out about the benefits of raw eggs so I added those to her meals once or twice a week.

It's really hard to find non-bias information with all the advertising that is out there.

[Dogsfevr]

No one thing is perfect ,no one diet is better, breed specifics must be considered & Barf/raw doesn't suit every dog.

Diet is individual & above all NO ONE should be made to feel that what they feed is wrong or inadequate especially when people aren't aware what some breeds can/can't eat or tolerate or should receive in small portions.

I read these articles & yes i now many on DOL are avid supporters of this way & that is there choice but i see many people who feed BARF & swear it is the only way yet there dogs get toys made in China ,they get feed schmacko,s .pig ears,porkies & the list goes on

My guys get feed commercial/raw,live very long/healthy lives,have superb skin/coat.

I see dogs feed tin who are healthy as horses & living till 16/17

I see dogs feed raw who do very well.

I see dogs feed the above who do awful & need some other diet ,no right or wrong just what is best for that dog

Edited for SP

Edited August 13, 2010 by showdog

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

No one thing is perfect ,no one diet is better, breed specifics must be considered & Barf/raw doesn't suit every dog.

Diet is individual & above all NO ONE should be made to feel that what they feed is wrong or inadequate especially when people aren't aware what some breeds can/can't eat or tolerate or should receive in small portions.

I read these articles & yes i n ow many on DOL are avoid supporters of this way & that is there choice but i see many people who feed BARF & swear it is the only way yet there dogs get toys made in China ,they get feed schmacko,s .pig ears,porkies & the list goes on

My guys get feed commercial/raw,live very long/healthy lives,have superb skin/coat.

I see dogs feed tin who are healthy as horses & living till 16/17

I see dogs feed raw who do very well.

I see dogs feed the above who do awful & need some other diet ,no right or wrong just what is best for that dog

thank you

[cowanbree]

I think it is really important that everyone makes an informed decision regarding what they feed their own dogs. Personally I have always fed mine mainly dry with about 1/4 raw and my dogs have lived long healthy lives. I was recently swayed towards feeding more BARF but thousands of dollars in vet bills and a dog that will never eat a normal meal again have changed my opinion on that.

[westielover]

My dogs have been on natural diets for pretty much their entire lives - except for the 2 pounds dogs and my first westie who was fed a commercial diet during puppyhood (to 10 weeks). My second westie came from a raw feeding breeder. So it's about 10 years of raw feeding now and they are very healthy.

Mind you my naughty dad used to drop in with schmakos ..... I used to let him give them one and then tossed the rest of the packet out when he left I have now asked him not to give them schmakos and now he brings liver treats

That said, I have read somewhere that a dog's digestive system can accomodate whatever diet a dog is being fed. So dogs on commercial diet can certainly do well based on that.

It's when you throw the other stuff in like annual vaccinations, cortisone based drugs and bad genes that you start getting problems.

The natural diet needs to be looked at with a wholistic view. It's not just the diet - it's the vaccinations, the prescribed drugs for whatever condition the dog might have and the breeding. It all comes into play.

Edited August 13, 2010 by westielover

[Little Gifts]

I'd still appreciate some advice on a good dry food as that is an ongoing struggle in our household. One has a special diet but the others get mainly raw, rice and vegies. We have tried different types of biscuits but it is a pain when they decide they don't like it and you have a 10kg bag of the stuff and it cost you a fortune. There is a Pal brand for small breeds (even though they are not small) that they gobble up so when they are being fussy we just buy that, but I'm really not happy with it because I don't think it's any more nutritious than the sugary cereal kids love - hence the need for suggestions based on nutrient value if anyone has any? Dobesrock I will check out the Black Hawk.

[westielover]

I tried raw for a while with Diesel to see if it would help with his skin, but I didn't see it make any noticeable difference. Also, I worried about getting it right, it took a long time to prepare (the vegie slop and sourcing all the bits and pieces of offal) and not that cheap either - the bits of offal were expensive. I also couldn't believe the amount I had to feed to keep any amount of weight on! I don't have a freezer dedicated to dog meat, they have to share space with the human food in the freezer, and there is no way I have enough room to keep enough food in there for them (and unless you buy in bulk it is actually expensive).

I think with Diesel it would be a matter of taking him off any cortisone based drugs, giving no annual vaccinations and feeding a raw diet. It would take a number of months to see a big improvement. I am not a betting person but I would bet on the fact that you would see a massive improvement. Cortisone based drugs (whih are generally prescribed by most vets for skin problems) suppress the immune system - add vaccinations on top of that and the dog's system has no chance of being healthy. I can't remember if you have told me whether he still gets vaccs ot not but no vet should be giving vaccs to a dog with a compromised immune system.

The 'raw feeding' breeder I purchased my 9 year old westie from has fixed a number of skin problems on westies by taking the dog from the owner for a few months and switching them to a raw diet and weening the dog off the drugs & vaccs. I have seen the results and they are truly amazing. To see a westie go from having not much fur, red raw skin and scratching itself to no end and then see transformed westie with a beautiful full coat and good skin is prrof enough for me.

Also, when feeding raw - not every meal has to be balanced (I think a lot of people worry about this too much) - the meals are balanced over say a week. As long as the dog is being fed raw meat, offal, bones and green leafy mashed veggies every week - it should be okay. The raw diet isn't meant to be complicated.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

I'd still appreciate some advice on a good dry food as that is an ongoing struggle in our household. One has a special diet but the others get mainly raw, rice and vegies. We have tried different types of biscuits but it is a pain when they decide they don't like it and you have a 10kg bag of the stuff and it cost you a fortune. There is a Pal brand for small breeds (even though they are not small) that they gobble up so when they are being fussy we just buy that, but I'm really not happy with it because I don't think it's any more nutritious than the sugary cereal kids love - hence the need for suggestions based on nutrient value if anyone has any? Dobesrock I will check out the Black Hawk.

if you get your food from pet stock and your dog doesnt like it then they replace the food with something else. they also have sample packs to try.

my dog is a bit sensitive to dry food so is now on only raw but the ones that worked for her were eagle pack holistic ans pro plan sensitive, both are quite expensive.

to get a good quality dry food try to get a super premium food here is a good site http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/

hope this helps

[Kavik]

I tried raw for a while with Diesel to see if it would help with his skin, but I didn't see it make any noticeable difference. Also, I worried about getting it right, it took a long time to prepare (the vegie slop and sourcing all the bits and pieces of offal) and not that cheap either - the bits of offal were expensive. I also couldn't believe the amount I had to feed to keep any amount of weight on! I don't have a freezer dedicated to dog meat, they have to share space with the human food in the freezer, and there is no way I have enough room to keep enough food in there for them (and unless you buy in bulk it is actually expensive).

I think with Diesel it would be a matter of taking him off any cortisone based drugs, giving no annual vaccinations and feeding a raw diet. It would take a number of months to see a big improvement. I am not a betting person but I would bet on the fact that you would see a massive improvement. Cortisone based drugs (whih are generally prescribed by most vets for skin problems) suppress the immune system - add vaccinations on top of that and the dog's system has no chance of being healthy. I can't remember if you have told me whether he still gets vaccs ot not but no vet should be giving vaccs to a dog with a compromised immune system.

The 'raw feeding' breeder I purchased my 9 year old westie from has fixed a number of skin problems on westies by taking the dog from the owner for a few months and switching them to a raw diet and weening the dog off the drugs & vaccs. I have seen the results and they are truly amazing. To see a westie go from having not much fur, red raw skin and scratching itself to no end and then see transformed westie with a beautiful full coat and good skin is prrof enough for me.

Also, when feeding raw - not every meal has to be balanced (I think a lot of people worry about this too much) - the meals are balanced over say a week. As long as the dog is being fed raw meat, offal, bones and green leafy mashed veggies every week - it should be okay. The raw diet isn't meant to be complicated.

He's not on cortisone at the moment, on 3 yrly vaccs (until I find a vet that doesn't charge so much for titre testing!).

Unfortunately that still would not solve my lack of freezer space Really it is chockers as it is and my OH complains about the space the dog's food takes up! Maybe when I can conjure up some more time I'll give it another go.

[Little Gifts]

Thanks Jaxx's Buddy!

[Moselle]

My dogs have been on natural diets for pretty much their entire lives - except for the 2 pounds dogs and my first westie who was fed a commercial diet during puppyhood (to 10 weeks). My second westie came from a raw feeding breeder. So it's about 10 years of raw feeding now and they are very healthy.

Mind you my naughty dad used to drop in with schmakos ..... I used to let him give them one and then tossed the rest of the packet out when he left I have now asked him not to give them schmakos and now he brings liver treats

That said, I have read somewhere that a dog's digestive system can accomodate whatever diet a dog is being fed. So dogs on commercial diet can certainly do well based on that.

It's when you throw the other stuff in like annual vaccinations, cortisone based drugs and bad genes that you start getting problems.

The natural diet needs to be looked at with a wholistic view. It's not just the diet - it's the vaccinations, the prescribed drugs for whatever condition the dog might have and the breeding. It all comes into play.

It is very true that annual vaccinations, cortisone based drugs, etc are a definite NO NO.

I wonder who is responsible for writing an article stipulating that a dog's digestive system can accommodate whatever they are being fed? lol. I am also left wondering if they have any monetary incentive in saying this? perhaps a link to the pet food industry, lol.

I am compelled to ask if you and other posters have actually read what is being used in pet food and the noxious ingredients such as preservatives and additives that are thrown in?

[Moselle]

I tried raw for a while with Diesel to see if it would help with his skin, but I didn't see it make any noticeable difference. Also, I worried about getting it right, it took a long time to prepare (the vegie slop and sourcing all the bits and pieces of offal) and not that cheap either - the bits of offal were expensive. I also couldn't believe the amount I had to feed to keep any amount of weight on! I don't have a freezer dedicated to dog meat, they have to share space with the human food in the freezer, and there is no way I have enough room to keep enough food in there for them (and unless you buy in bulk it is actually expensive).

My previous dog was only fed dry food her whole life and she lived to be 17 and was very healthy until she got to be about 14/15 when age related illnesses started creeping in. Out of my current lot, the Kelpies seem to do well on whatever food I choose to feed them, I have to be more careful with Diesel who has bad skin (and I will take recommendations for foods to try!). Mine get a mix of dry and chicken wings.

I had exactly the same problem in being able to store the raw meat (bulk) as a family fridge oftentimes cannot accommodate it. I resolved the problem by buying a 2nd hand fridge for $120 and bingo....now I have all the space in the world and it was not such a big expenditure.