Please I Need Some Help

[Lady Flying Furball]

I have followed this thread since started and wish you all the best in sorting this out.

One thing that I think has been jumped on is the "snapping at a child" as in the OP it was said the dog ONCE SNAPPED AT A CHILD THROUGH A GLASS DOOR. Now dogs can be different without a barrier between them and the fast moving little person on the other side... I know this may seem a minor point but I felt it got taken out of context and elicited some strong comments about putting the dog to sleep...which concerned me for the OP...consulting a behaviouralist and doing some management in between before resorting to putting a dog down seems much more appropriate.

[Dame Aussie]

I have followed this thread since started and wish you all the best in sorting this out.

One thing that I think has been jumped on is the "snapping at a child" as in the OP it was said the dog ONCE SNAPPED AT A CHILD THROUGH A GLASS DOOR. Now dogs can be different without a barrier between them and the fast moving little person on the other side... I know this may seem a minor point but I felt it got taken out of context and elicited some strong comments about putting the dog to sleep...which concerned me for the OP...consulting a behaviouralist and doing some management in between before resorting to putting a dog down seems much more appropriate.

Agree 100%

[tarope]

Hi Chazey,

I have never owned a Mastiff, but let me tell you about my GSD's and Rottie. When people walk past mine bark very aggressively and even more so is they come onto the yard. My GSD boy nearly ripped the wire door off it's hinges trying to get a delivery guy who jumped over the front fence.

Bark and growl at a stranger who comes into their yard with a family member until introduced, bark aggressively at sounds outside or people next door. Does this sound familiar, if it does then what is the problem as your dog is protecting your family and your property.

I think you don't understand your breed or what this loyal dog is doing and you should be thankful your dog is like this as he will protect your kids with his life just like mine. You should take your dog to obedience training to learn how to handle and control him, as puppy school is IMO a waste of time.

.

But shouldn't a guarding breed also have some idea as to what truly is a threat and what is not for instance it sounds like his biggest reactions are toward other children. they are hardly a threat.

I have two dogs with guarding heritiage (Dane, and Mastiff x Dane) and neither of them carry on that way. if someone knocks on the door and I am in another room they will bark once to let me know. Othersise they don't bark at all. They hover at the door whle I answer it, but there is no more barking and there is no growling or snapping or anything like that. Furthermore, they are entirely friendly to anyone I bring into the house.

I didn't think a guarding dog was meant to behave the way OP is describing unless the situation is actually a threatening one?

I am curious to hear people's responses. Maybe I have the wrong idea about this?

I have never owned a guarding breed and I hate it when people refer to some breeds as "guarding" when these breeds are just protecting their owners which is their natural instinct. If mine see a stranger walk past they don't know if it's an adult or child, they react which is normal. GSD's are very protective of their family and yard, it's up to me to tell them what is a threat and what is not.

To me the OP doesn't understand her dog or the breed and thinks the natural instincts are a sign of aggression. The OP says the dog is fine with the family. I just looked up the Mastiff in my book "Dog Breeds in Australia" because I don't know any thing about this breed and it says "Calm and affectionate to it's owners,the Mastiff is highly protective of it's family and property. I think the OP should ring the breed club for advice, for the dog's sake anyway.

[Dame Aussie]

im going to put my flame proof suit on here. if that was my dog who snaped at a kid regardless if the child was (luckly on the other side of the glass). is a deal breaker and would be out of my house and down the vets so fast its not funny. might be a stranger child but that child did not pervoke it (im assuming if it did different story) I think the safety of children is the most important thing in the world and no dog it worth my child or another persons child.

that dog can never ever ever be trusted regardless of a behavoiursit assessing and working with you.

this dog is yours and your responibilty but that is a deal breaker in my opinion.

NO dog can ever be 100% trusted and many dogs with signs of aggression can live happy fulfilling lives with behavioural intervention.

If your dog toilets in the house do you decide it will never be toilet trained no matter what you do, and hey, may aswell put it down??

I'd hate to be a dog in your care.

To the OP, I agree with most posts, don't let this go untreated, a good behaviourist will be able to help you look at the causes and how to deal with this.

Good luck, let us know how you go.

ETA - spelling!

well lucky you wont be. kids are the most important thing, TT thats your agument, i have never heard of children or adults being severly hurt, or killed by a dog not TT properly. get a grip.,

this dog is agressive not peeing in the house and as Other Posters has shown all the help in the world wont make u feel anybetter when your dog has ripped into your childs face.

I agree no dog can 100% be trusted

by the way my dogs are 100% well treated trained and he was loved til he passed away but my children are THE THE most important thing in this world and i will not risk them for a dog that is agressive, regardless of what you or anyother person thinks.

Wow, talk about missing the point....nowhere did I say that an un-toilet trained dog would attack someone .

My point was, would you give up so easily with a different unacceptable behaviour. It's not as though this dog has even bitten anyone, the poor thing, give it a chance.

[raineth]

IMO Mastiffs are not a Guarding breed, they are a Guardian breed. Big difference.

Guarding dogs seem to be hard wired to be more territorial and I've seen many that don't actually care what happens to their people if those people are not in their usual place, they are more in to guarding a place than a person, which is not to say they can't be trained to guard a person

Guardian dogs seem to be hard wired to guard living things, people or livestock, which is also not to say they can't be trained to guard a place.

Just my take on it anyway.

ETA: yes I think any dog regardless of heritage should be socialised enough to understand the difference between a casual passer-by and a threat. Military dogs possibily excluded.

that's really interesting about the distinction between gurading a person or guarding a territory.

I have never owned a guarding breed and I hate it when people refer to some breeds as "guarding" when these breeds are just protecting their owners which is their natural instinct. If mine see a stranger walk past they don't know if it's an adult or child, they react which is normal. GSD's are very protective of their family and yard, it's up to me to tell them what is a threat and what is not.

I'm not quite sure I follow you?

Sandra77 said that I should have referred to a mastiff as a guardian breed, I understand that now.

But the act of "protecting their owners" is what "guarding" means? to me guarding means, watching over and protecting. What is your definition?

ETA: I never actually refferred to the dog's behaviour as guarding; I just refferred to guarding breeds.

Edited August 14, 2010 by raineth

[tarope]

IMO Mastiffs are not a Guarding breed, they are a Guardian breed. Big difference.

Guarding dogs seem to be hard wired to be more territorial and I've seen many that don't actually care what happens to their people if those people are not in their usual place, they are more in to guarding a place than a person, which is not to say they can't be trained to guard a person

Guardian dogs seem to be hard wired to guard living things, people or livestock, which is also not to say they can't be trained to guard a place.

Just my take on it anyway.

ETA: yes I think any dog regardless of heritage should be socialised enough to understand the difference between a casual passer-by and a threat. Military dogs possibily excluded.

that's really interesting about the distinction between gurading a person or guarding a territory.

I have never owned a guarding breed and I hate it when people refer to some breeds as "guarding" when these breeds are just protecting their owners which is their natural instinct. If mine see a stranger walk past they don't know if it's an adult or child, they react which is normal. GSD's are very protective of their family and yard, it's up to me to tell them what is a threat and what is not.

I'm not quite sure I follow you?

Sandra77 said that I should have referred to a mastiff as a guardian breed, I understand that now.

But the act of "protecting their owners" is what "guarding" means? to me guarding means, watching over and protecting. What is your definition?

ETA: I never actually refferred to the dog's behaviour as guarding; I just refferred to guarding breeds.

If you google "Guard Dog" you will see what many people think GSD's, Rotties and Dobes are like and this not the image we wish our wonderful, loving family pets to be seen as because they are nothing like this. I'm not having a go at you, but it's important to know the difference. I would rather be protected by a dog out of love than a dog trained to protect.

[raineth]

If you google "Guard Dog" you will see what many people think GSD's, Rotties and Dobes are like and this not the image we wish our wonderful, loving family pets to be seen as because they are nothing like this. I'm not having a go at you, but it's important to know the difference. I would rather be protected by a dog out of love than a dog trained to protect.

ahhh right, I know what you mean now!

thanks for clarifying

[hortfurball]

Tarope, I'm glad my friend's GSD was a bit more accepting than yours when my friend was suddenly taken to hospital for a week and I had to jump the fence to gain access via the back door to feed her, play with her and take her for a walk. Admittedly she'd met me on a few occasions previously, but not in that particular house as they hadn't long moved. She did however also a friend jump the fence on a separate occasion who she'd never met, so not ALL GSD's are hardwired to be so protective.

To the OP, best of luck. I'd hesitate to pay attention to the few whose knee jerk reaction is always to put the dog to sleep without knowing all the facts, in my opinion it is irresponsible to 'assess' a dog and sentence it to death from a simple post over the internet. Go with the behaviourist recommendation and take it from there. Sorry to hear that your breeder is not supportive, that would raise some doubts as to the ethics of the breeder in my head, and whether they breed their dogs with temperament as a priority. Your dog is only young, there is every chance that a behaviourist will be able to help you.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: I hope all goes well with Kathy....

I am always interested to see what peoples reactions are to certain dog related incidents.

We get lots of enquiries every week and hear some pretty severe stories on what dogs have done, we dont have "euthanise the dog" as a standard answer, no matter what the dog has done...

There can be underlying behaviour and medical problems that can drive many behaviours which can be totally overcome with treatment.

I dont know of a situation in which the dog wouldnt deserve an assessment at least before being put to sleep.

We use the term Pack for dogs a lot, the human equivalent is family, family members deserve all we can give...

[Aidan]

We use the term Pack for dogs a lot, the human equivalent is family, family members deserve all we can give...

[Aidan]

Some references for heritability of aggressive behavioural traits, a bit off-topic but there was some interest earlier in the thread:

E. Strandberg J. Jacobsson P. Saetre Direct genetic, maternal and litter affects on behaviour in German shepherd dogs in Sweden Livestock Production Science 93 2004 33 42

L. Van den Berg Genetics of aggressive behavior in golden retriever dogs [thesis] 2006 Utrecht University Utrecht (NL)

A.L. Podberscek J.A. Serpell The English Cocker Spaniel: preliminary findings on aggressive behaviour Appl Anim Behav Sci 47 1996 75 89

I.R. Reisner K.A. Houpt F.S. Shofer National survey of owner-directed aggression in English Springer Spaniels J Am Vet Med Assoc 227 2005 1594 1603