Please I Need Some Help

[Greytmate]

He barks aggressively when people come to the house, or walk past the front of the house at night, if someone comes into his yard, even if they are with a family member he will lunge and bark at them. He lunges at joggers and bikes, and is startled by sudden movement and young children running. He snapped at a young child once through a glass door.

He also blocks the doorway (however that could just be he can't be bothered getting up!!).

I have racked my brain and just can't seem to find a cause, he's been checked by the Vet for a medical reason. he's never been struck or physically punished. He seems fine with all the family (i have 3 young children and he will happily play with them ) and he's not food aggressive. He also seems to like other dogs

.

He doesn't usually display any of the behaviours (except the barking at people who come to the house) when my husband takes him out, its only when he's with me. Now I can't let him off the leash in case he attacks someone.

Mastiffs are guarding breeds and it is normal for them to display guarding behaviour on maturity but it is up to the owners to control who and what needs to be guarded, and to be able to switch off the guarding. From what you have said above, it is possible this dog thinks that your husband is pack leader but that he (the dog) comes next in the pack, ahead of you and the children. This causes him to believe he needs to protect you from everyone outside the family.

I have seen this happen with many dogs and it is easily fixed with a small breed but this is a very large breed with the potential to do a lot of damage if not handled correctly. I agree that you need the help of a good behaviouralist immediately to assess this dog and work out if a shift in family pack structure would correct the behaviour or not.

+1

I can't believe the people saying that they would take their dog to the vet (I'm assuming to be destroyed) because of a behavioral issue like this. Sounds to me like this is a problem with the OWNER, not the dog (which I believe is the problem in most cases - especially when the dog has been in the care of the same owner since it was a puppy). A dogs behavior is determined by its environment, just like anybody elses. If you create an environment where your dog will be aggressive, then the problem is yours, not the dogs

Anyway, sound advice IMO from dancinbcs. You've already made a couple of steps forward which is good to see (those being coming on here and seeking advice).

It is determined by genetics and altered by environment.

A large mastiff was chosen as a pet, a dog with that breeding requires a different environment to manage it properly than many other breeds do.

It is an owner problem in that the owner seems to have chosen the wrong breed of dog (let's revisit that topic about breeds for inexperienced owners) for their management style and knowledge level. A behaviourists can't turn back the clock and fix that. The dog has to be assessed by a behaviourist, but that doesn't mean the problem can be solved.

[Miss BeRidgierent]

Why is it unacceptable for a dog to snap at a child and not at an adult?

I would say the dog may have more serious problems if it is snapping at an adult.

Snapping at children could be due a rank or hierarchy issue, dogs are more likely to see themselves as being above kids in the pecking order.

Or it could be due to children annoying (accidently or not) the dog at some point, then the dog feels the need to defend itself or give the child a warning.

These issues could be resolved by rehoming to a family with no young kids and/or with the help of a professional.

Obviously I think snapping is unacceptable whether to adult or child and if it were my dog i would have him assessed ASAP.

Of course, every case is different and any aggressive behaviour should only be assessed in person, by a professional behaviourist or expereinced dog trainer.

+1 Our family pet used to snap at me when I was young 1) because I used to tease him (I was around 7) and 2 he thought he was higher in the pack. And this was only when he was around food.

I honestly don't know how people would put their pet to sleep for snapping (not biting) a child without trying to solve the issue. Each to there own I guess.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Miss BeRidgierent

[OSoSwift]

I am also thinking that the dog may not see you as a pack leader. Due to his size and the potential for a major injury if he does connect, this needs to be sorted now! Please consult a behavioralist today.

He is only 12months old and is yet to hit his straps.

Have you contacted the breeder or been given any advice from them??

[ash&elar]

(we were both rude to eachother - i can take it, jaxx couldn't (which is fine - totally up to him/her on what their limit is for what they will take)).

anyway, dogluva, my point is that this type of behavior (if the dog has been owned since it was a pup) has been allowed to accumulate by the OWNER over time. I dont see why its the dogs fault for the owner neglecting to properly control it. The same goes for people who have cats and greyhounds (or similar prey-driven breeds). If their dog chases and catches their cat, then its the owners fault, not the dogs. I just dont see why a dog should have to surrender its life because of the inabilities of the owner to handle the characteristics of a certain breed.

So a dog that will chase down a child and kill it should be allowed to live because it isnt its fault that it is that way???? Any dog in my whole extended family would be pts if it so much as attempted to bite a child even if the child accidently stood on its tail and the dog snapped at the kid, a dog is aware of who it is biting/going to bite unless it was cornered and being threatend it should move away from a child, complain vocally but not bite, i do not believe the way a dog is has everything to do with the owner, some dogs are genetically predispositioned to bad temps, some dogs should be pts for the safety of others.

to the OP i agree that a behavourist is needed, but if this dog has had a go at a child in the past it is something you will ALWAYS have to watch out for, is that something you are capable or even willing to do for the rest of this dogs life?

[aussielover]

So a dog that will chase down a child and kill it should be allowed to live because it isnt its fault that it is that way???? Any dog in my whole extended family would be pts if it so much as attempted to bite a child even if the child accidently stood on its tail and the dog snapped at the kid, a dog is aware of who it is biting/going to bite unless it was cornered and being threatend it should move away from a child, complain vocally but not bite, i do not believe the way a dog is has everything to do with the owner, some dogs are genetically predispositioned to bad temps, some dogs should be pts for the safety of others.

to the OP i agree that a behavourist is needed, but if this dog has had a go at a child in the past it is something you will ALWAYS have to watch out for, is that something you are capable or even willing to do for the rest of this dogs life?

Are you kidding???

I agree the dog should not start viciously attacking the child or even draw blood, but you would PTS if it even snapped near a child who had injured it?

The OPs dog has not "chased down a child and killed it" so i don't even know why that was mentioned here...

[Joel]

It is determined by genetics and altered by environment.

A large mastiff was chosen as a pet, a dog with that breeding requires a different environment to manage it properly than many other breeds do.

It is an owner problem in that the owner seems to have chosen the wrong breed of dog (let's revisit that topic about breeds for inexperienced owners) for their management style and knowledge level. A behaviourists can't turn back the clock and fix that. The dog has to be assessed by a behaviourist, but that doesn't mean the problem can be solved.

True - I stand corrected. With that said, I think with proper training and management any breed can be put into a situation where its genetic instincts are put under pressure but a reliable outcome can be achieved because an environment that doesn't support those instincts.

Although I dont think a mastiff was the best choice of breed for their situation, it SHOULD be workable. And no matter the breed, it shouldn't be aggressive towards people. THAT, I think, is behavior that has not been made completely unacceptable on the owners part (whether it stems from allowing the dog to be possessive or something is for a behaviorist to determine). I am not a behaviorist, and these are just my opinions. If I stand to be corrected, then so be it

[TsarsMum]

hey joel, i do AGREE with you that this is probly not all the dogs fault. but its in the breed and the temp of this dog, and a child is a child and a dog is a dog. I dont like the idea of rehoming agressive dogs, as you dont know if in 5 years these people wont have kids OR a kid comes over.

I find all agressive behavoir unacceptiable. but kids need protecting and are more easy damaged. my kids and the saftey of there mates are number 1 in my house. adults number 2.

i had a little dog which i rehomed to an older lady whos kids had grown up and she was alone. he was an extreamly nervous dog who loved to be babyed and i dont do that in my house. (dogs are dogs not people) he was a nipper if the kids did something he would mouth them and warn that way. I have a baby who was about to crawl and is animal obbesssed. i could not and would not risk it. he never agressively bit the kids But my trust was gone and if i turned my back for a sec and my baby got hurt i was not going to risk it. (3 kids its easy done lol)

I know that my rotti would eat a person who jumped the fence. But he would never ever hurt a child or someone invited in. i never doubted it. (i have pics of my oldest sitting on him ) he loved kids and would do anything to keep kids safe.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

So a dog that will chase down a child and kill it should be allowed to live because it isnt its fault that it is that way???? Any dog in my whole extended family would be pts if it so much as attempted to bite a child even if the child accidently stood on its tail and the dog snapped at the kid, a dog is aware of who it is biting/going to bite unless it was cornered and being threatend it should move away from a child, complain vocally but not bite, i do not believe the way a dog is has everything to do with the owner, some dogs are genetically predispositioned to bad temps, some dogs should be pts for the safety of others.

to the OP i agree that a behavourist is needed, but if this dog has had a go at a child in the past it is something you will ALWAYS have to watch out for, is that something you are capable or even willing to do for the rest of this dogs life?

Are you kidding???

I agree the dog should not start viciously attacking the child or even draw blood, but you would PTS if it even snapped near a child who had injured it?

The OPs dog has not "chased down a child and killed it" so i don't even know why that was mentioned here...

children are defenceless against dogs and can be very damaged by a dog, inpart because they are very close in height to a dog and therefore their faces get the snap. that is why imo it is much worse if a dog snaps at a child than an adult.

a dog should know its place in the heirarchy and snapping at a child shows it doesnt know that, this imo is a very dangerous situation.

[megan_]

(we were both rude to eachother - i can take it, jaxx couldn't (which is fine - totally up to him/her on what their limit is for what they will take)).

anyway, dogluva, my point is that this type of behavior (if the dog has been owned since it was a pup) has been allowed to accumulate by the OWNER over time. I dont see why its the dogs fault for the owner neglecting to properly control it. The same goes for people who have cats and greyhounds (or similar prey-driven breeds). If their dog chases and catches their cat, then its the owners fault, not the dogs. I just dont see why a dog should have to surrender its life because of the inabilities of the owner to handle the characteristics of a certain breed.

I just dont get it. It seems like I'm the only one that sees my dog as PART OF MY FAMILY. Would you kill one of your children for fighting with their sibling (after all, children are still capable of killing each other). Of course not. You would try and resolve the problem. You would do EVERYTHING in your power to make sure that everyone in the family lived happily and peacefully with each other. You wouldn't just condemn one member because they screwed up once (especially considering what I have previously said about dogs being products of their environment, which therefore means that their problem = your problem).

Some dogs are weak nerved and that has nothing to do with the owner. I am so sick of bad dog = bad owner. Life is often a little more complicated than that. A weak nerved guarding breed (not saying this dog is that) is a very dangerous thing.

BTW - most people here see their dog as part of their family. They just don't want Fido to be a danger to the community. Nothing wrong it that. I don't understand why you think you're the only one here that sees their dog as part of their family - most people have advised to see a behaviourist. However, a dog that attacks kids (or any human IMO) unprovoked is a danger to the community.

[Jetty]

So a dog that will chase down a child and kill it should be allowed to live because it isnt its fault that it is that way???? Any dog in my whole extended family would be pts if it so much as attempted to bite a child even if the child accidently stood on its tail and the dog snapped at the kid, a dog is aware of who it is biting/going to bite unless it was cornered and being threatend it should move away from a child, complain vocally but not bite, i do not believe the way a dog is has everything to do with the owner, some dogs are genetically predispositioned to bad temps, some dogs should be pts for the safety of others.

to the OP i agree that a behavourist is needed, but if this dog has had a go at a child in the past it is something you will ALWAYS have to watch out for, is that something you are capable or even willing to do for the rest of this dogs life?

Are you kidding???

I agree the dog should not start viciously attacking the child or even draw blood, but you would PTS if it even snapped near a child who had injured it?

The OPs dog has not "chased down a child and killed it" so i don't even know why that was mentioned here...

I am pretty shocked at that too. If you stood on a dogs tail or hurt it ofcourse its going to react. Maybe not in the biting way but some dogs will. I would never consider putting a dog down due to something like that.

My dog was fear agressive. However not towards people but still the behaviourist worked wonders and I now have a well behaved dog and the past agressive ways are hardly seen if ever. I think the best thing is a behaviourist. I hope someone can recommend someone in WA for the OP

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

<snip>

Some dogs are weak nerved and that has nothing to do with the owner. I am so sick of bad dog = bad owner. Life is often a little more complicated than that. A weak nerved guarding breed (not saying this dog is that) is a very dangerous thing.

BTW - most people here see their dog as part of their family. They just don't want Fido to be a danger to the community. Nothing wrong it that. I don't understand why you think you're the only one here that sees their dog as part of their family - most people have advised to see a behaviourist. However, a dog that attacks kids (or any human IMO) unprovoked is a danger to the community.

totally agree with this

[Joel]

A dog chasing down and child and killing it is different than a dog snapping because a child has come too close.

Another question that pops into my mind is... why are parents so easy going with their children around dogs? I was taught from a VERY young age that I was to ask permission to go near a dog and to never just run up and pat them or anything. I have NEVER not had a dog in the house (well, tell a lie, there was a month or so when we didn't have a dog) and was always aware of a dogs need for space and the correct way to behave whilst playing/showing affection. A dog does not generally seek out another animal that has come too close to prove its point. It will warn first - growl, snap etc. If children are not taught to recognize this, then the parents have a serious problem. And if they are too young to understand this, then they are too young to be unsupervised around animals.

I am so confident in my dog not attacking people that I am happy to let kids near her (with my supervision of course (not because I think anything will happen, but I think its the responsible thing to do)). People could pull at her face, pull her tail or try and ride her and she wouldnt bite. She wouldnt be happy, but she wouldnt bite. She'd probably just run away if she'd had. Kids could come up to her while she was on her bed, eating her food, anything, and there wouldn't be a problem. If she had nowhere to escape to, then there might be, but again, that is MY responsibility as a dog owner to know this and make sure that she is not put in this type of situation. And if she WAS put in that situation and I did not prevent it, then that it MY fault.

[Joel]

Yes megan I agree that a dog that attacks when not provoked is a danger to the community, but how has it gotten to the stage where it would do that?

I'm not suggesting that most people here dont see their dogs as part of their family, but I dont think some do. They say that their dog is part of the family... until something happens. That is not truly being part of the family. Thats like saying to your son "You're my son, but if you do something wrong, we're going to kill you". If being in a family means that, I would have been dead long ago.

If a dog is "weak nerved" then I dont think it is born this way. If it IS, then why was it picked as a family pet? Either way, it is the owners responsibility. If you take on a dog with 'weak nerves' then you have to take the proper precautions. If that means never letting it be around kids, then so be it.

[Greytmate]

Yes megan I agree that a dog that attacks when not provoked is a danger to the community, but how has it gotten to the stage

If a dog is "weak nerved" then I dont think it is born this way. If it IS, then why was it picked as a family pet? Either way, it is the owners responsibility. If you take on a dog with 'weak nerves' then you have to take the proper precautions. If that means never letting it be around kids, then so be it.

When we talk about 'weak nerved' here, we are always talking about a genetic tendency.

Good breeders will try to cull weak-nerved dogs from breeding programs, and there is less risk for puppy buyers buying from these breeders.

However there are a large number of bad breeders, breeding from weak-nerved dogs, and producing more of them. Buyer Beware! (or come here for advice).

[Remarkabull]

+1. I have a DA dog and she was socialised with other dogs her whole life. She just dosn't like other dogs, never has, never will. When she was younger she would just growl at other dogs but as she got older she has gotten crankier and will attack another dog unprovoked. Of all the dogs I have owned (now and past) she is the only one like this, so I assume that it can't be all my fault she is the way she is?

I was bitten by our family dog (female dobe) as a child. Nothing serious, no broken skin but a good blood blister! I deserved it, I used to drag her around and make her sit, stay etc and if she moved I would be back at it again, poor dog just got jack of it and nipped me to warn me that it was enough. And fair enough I reakon, I would've bitten me too!

ETA I was agreeing with Jaxx's Buddy and Megan_. I forgot to quote them

Edited August 13, 2010 by dobesrock

[~Shepherd~]

I feel terrible for the owner. I would rehome the dog with a behavioural assessment, certainly not without one. Not worth it. Kids safety is more important and once the trust has been broken its impossible to get it back.

Kids are allowed to be kids and enjoy their family pets, not be permanently separated from them or corrected each time they step foot within 20 meters. Not fair on anyone.

As a mother of 3 kids 5 and under, I would find the situation too difficult to manage. The dog may be suited to a home where the behaviour can be modified and manged away from unpredictable actions of children.

I have an indoor guardian breed with a bombproof temperament, if it wasn't bomproof, I wouldn't have her here. She is trained daily to maintain her manners. I know other people with guardian breeds who do as I do but sadly the temperaments have been the cause of the problem, not the environment.

Good luck and I hope you get the help you need before it turns your life upside down.

[Sandra777]

Yes megan I agree that a dog that attacks when not provoked is a danger to the community, but how has it gotten to the stage where it would do that?

I don't think anyone's arguing that most stuffed-up dogs aren't ultimately the result of poor ownership, bad choices of breed etc etc etc - but in what way does this make it OK to have a dog which is a danger to the community? Just because it's not the dog's fault doesn't make the problem go away. What choice do you have if you have a dog which has been so damaged by someone's mismanagement and plain cruelty that it can't be trusted to respond appropriately in situations it feels uncomfortable in. I guess it boils down to which the owner feels is more important - being able to keep a dog which could potentially maim or kill someone (probably a child) or doing the responsible thing for other people and having the dog put to sleep. No NOT the dog's fault, but all the owner's responsibility.

If a dog is "weak nerved" then I dont think it is born this way. If it IS, then why was it picked as a family pet? Either way, it is the owners responsibility. If you take on a dog with 'weak nerves' then you have to take the proper precautions. If that means never letting it be around kids, then so be it.

How do you avoid a dog with "weak nerves" if the breeder doesn't have the knowledge or doesn't care to pick this up in the litter and the buyer doesn't have the knowledge or doesn't know they need the knowledge or doesn't care and fails to pick up on this trait when choosing their puppy?

IME a large part of a dog's temperament in terms of it's reactivity, bite threshhold, warning threshholds etc is genetic.

Never letting a dog be around kids is an unrealistic and unachievable goal for most people.

This would mean the dog must never be taken to a park or beach or even walked on the footpath (unless muzzled), never be in the back yard (unless muzzled) in case some kid jumps over the fence or the fence blew over in a storm, never be taken to the vet (unless muzzled) never anywhere except in the owner's house (unless muzzled). Yes - SOME people are responsible enough to be able to achieve this, but these people don't tend to be the ones who have problem dogs in the first place (unless they're second-hand stuffed up dogs from someone else of course)

Anyway, this is still a bit of a distance from OP's current problem

[Joel]

Yes megan I agree that a dog that attacks when not provoked is a danger to the community, but how has it gotten to the stage

If a dog is "weak nerved" then I dont think it is born this way. If it IS, then why was it picked as a family pet? Either way, it is the owners responsibility. If you take on a dog with 'weak nerves' then you have to take the proper precautions. If that means never letting it be around kids, then so be it.

When we talk about 'weak nerved' here, we are always talking about a genetic tendency.

Good breeders will try to cull weak-nerved dogs from breeding programs, and there is less risk for puppy buyers buying from these breeders.

However there are a large number of bad breeders, breeding from weak-nerved dogs, and producing more of them. Buyer Beware! (or come here for advice).

Which breeds have a tendency to be 'weak nerved'? I assumed that 'weak nerved' was the result of poor treatment in most cases (ie. an adopted 'weak nerved' dog probably got that way from being mistreated by its former owner or being sheltered in poor conditions)...?

I know that there are a bunch of bad breeders that will breed from any dog, weak nerved, aggressive, whatever, but at the end of the day, is it STILL not the owners responsibility? They have a choice of who to buy from. They have a choice of which puppy to take in most cases. There are multiple opportunities to make sure that you buy the best you can, and if you dont, then I think that it is your own doing if there are problems down the track. Obviously, there is always variance between dogs and who knows, one just might be crazy (after all, there are crazy people too), but I think that is an exception to the rule. Generally speaking, people have the chance to pick the best dog possible (or at least from a group of the best possible), and then bring them up in such a way as to make their dogs temperaments reliable (or, i liked the term "bombproof").

[~Shepherd~]

Yes megan I agree that a dog that attacks when not provoked is a danger to the community, but how has it gotten to the stage where it would do that?

I'm not suggesting that most people here dont see their dogs as part of their family, but I dont think some do. They say that their dog is part of the family... until something happens. That is not truly being part of the family. Thats like saying to your son "You're my son, but if you do something wrong, we're going to kill you". If being in a family means that, I would have been dead long ago.

If a dog is "weak nerved" then I dont think it is born this way. If it IS, then why was it picked as a family pet? Either way, it is the owners responsibility. If you take on a dog with 'weak nerves' then you have to take the proper precautions. If that means never letting it be around kids, then so be it.

The breeder should be matching the pup to the owner as they have seen their behaviour for 8 weeks.

Nervy behaviour IMO is genetic or caused from constant abuse.

You cant have a dog that lives with you, who can not be around kids. Ever.

As for your earlier post, you neverever let kids poke and prod animals, ride them or pull them. You can tell if a child is going to far then you stop them in their tracks.

A child under supervision should only get to the touch stage if under supervision. NEVER any further to SEE how the dog reacts. Stupid and irresponsible.

Its up to the owner to manage their dogs environment. If you see kids just about to ride or poke. Remove yourself and the dog. Simple.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

<snip>

The breeder should be matching the pup to the owner as they have seen their behaviour for 8 weeks.

Nervy behaviour IMO is genetic or caused from constant abuse.

You cant have a dog that lives with you, who can not be around kids. Ever.

As for your earlier post, you neverever let kids poke and prod animals, ride them or pull them. You can tell if a child is going to far then you stop them in their tracks.

A child under supervision should only get to the touch stage if under supervision. NEVER any further to SEE how the dog reacts. Stupid and irresponsible.

Its up to the owner to manage their dogs environment. If you see kids just about to ride or poke. Remove yourself and the dog. Simple.

i agree with this 1000%

Edited August 13, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy