Gsp Behavioural Problems / Exercise!

[Keyarna]

Hi guys, i'm just after some advice about my GSP boy. I'm not excersising him nearly enough as I should be, he has loads of excess energy which i'm pretty sure is the root of the all the behavioural problems we are experiencing. I've decided it's about time to stop being lazy and do what's best for him, and in turn hopefully he calms down alot.

I am going to buy a WalkyDog attachment for my bike soon, I figure this will be an excellent way for me to get some excersise, and better for him than just a slow walk. My question is, how long should I take him out for? Obviously I will let him set the pace, but since he's only 8 months old I want to know if there is a point I should stop him to avoid him overtiring himself, as I think he would just keep going and going!

Edited August 12, 2010 by Keyarna

[Kirty]

I wouldn't take him biking just yet. I think free exercise is recommended for large breeds until 12-18 months of age. So let him run around but don't 'make' him run. If you have a good, secure off leash area (and a good recall) that can be good.

[Keyarna]

That's the thing, our yard isn't quite big enough to give him lots of room to run, and the closest offleash dog park (the only one that is fenced anyway, I wouldn't trust his recall yet) is a 20 min drive away which discourages us from taking him there every day. Plus with my partner working he only gets home at 5:30 and it's getting quite dark by then, and I don't have my license so I can drive us to the park during the day.

I certainly don't expect him to RUN beside me, just a fast walkers pace with a few minutes trotting every now and then?

Edited August 12, 2010 by Keyarna

[FB Rescue_Adoption]

GSP's certainly do have a lot of energy, I wouldn't be running him beside a bike just yet, remember dogs need to learn to walk with you, this is an important practice for a dog, it helps to satisfy their migration instinct and allows him to take in the new smells outside his environment, so sometimes it's not just about making him run to drain the energy, there are other ways to do this as well, short bouts of obedience can be very tiring too. GSPs are working dogs and I strongly encourage you to do something with him on a regular basis where he can express that part of him, boredom and excess energy can be key factors for bad behaviours to develop from.

I know you mention time is a key factor, I have struggled with it too but once you form a routine it's not so bad. I work full time often long hrs - 12 hr days are not uncommon and drive 40 mins to and from work but will always walk my stafford for 45 mins to an hr, in the dark, rain hail or shine in my gumboots, often with a torch in the darkness of the night - when I decided to bring her into my life - I decided that I was going to make sure that her needs as a dog would be met, it's only fair.

[Keyarna]

Thanks for your advice! We do try to do as many things with him as possible, we do obedience (at home) when we can, a game of fetch every day, walking and take him to the park on a long line when we can. Obviously this isnt enough though as he's still got so much energy!

We have trouble teaching him to heel though, which I think is one of the main reasons I dislike taking him for walks and put it off. He's been to puppy school, i've read loads of different techniques for teaching him not to pull and nothing has worked. We've used a normal collar and lead, a choker, rewarding him with treats when he does heel, stopping or turning around when he pulls etc. He might do fine for 10 secs or though but he always get distracted and starts to pull again, either by his nose, other people, another dog etc. In the case of a person or dog we just ignore them, keep him close at our side and force him to keep walking, but he hasn't got the idea yet.

We recently got a black dog head collar which does seem to help, I wanted to use it just as a base to get the idea of heeling into his brain. We reward with treats when he does heel etc, but even with this head collar I can feel him still wanting to pull, and he always pulls on a normal choker. When we leave or enter the yard, I always make sure it's me leading so he knows I'M the leader, it's very frustrating!

We also want to get him into formal obedience soon, and would love to do field trials with him but he's just so hypo and out of control most of the time it puts us off bringing him anywhere, let alone to somewhere like field trials where they need alot of self control! I don't understand where this comes from as we have always acted as the pack leaders since he was a puppy. He eats after us, and has to wait until I say ok to eat when the bowl is on the ground, he sleeps in a crate at night, he never gets treats without first doing something for us and so much more.

He has a terrible habit of whining, when he is in his crate during the day for small amounts of time, at family members when he can't get to them, and at visitors. He is also very hyperactive during these situations and almost refuses to listen to commands, and when he does he only holds them for 2 seconds at most. He also gets into this weird mood, I can't figure out if it's bordering on semi agressive or overly playful, he will jump up and nip and mouth at us. It has drawn blood quite a few times, and nothing seems to stop this behaviour either. We have tried turning and completely ignoring him (he will just keep nipping..) saying NO (he does know what this means), spraying him with a water bottle which he dislikes but will soon resume the biting, the only thing we can do is lock him in the yard and go back into the house. I do have a feeling this is somewhat of a playful behaviour, but once again no idea where it comes from as we have never let him mouth us when he was younger, we would tell him no and hold his mouth shut.

Sorry for the massivly long post, he's really getting me down lately as I want to help him and our situation but nothing I do works!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

He's only a puppy, attention span of a gnat. So you need to be persistent. Don't think "it's not working", just think you haven't been quite consistent and persistent enough. The more insistent, persistent, consistent and pestilent you are, the harder you work his brain and the more tired (we hope) he will become.

Though there is such a thing as "over tired" for dogs. Especially active dogs. They keep being active but they get "brain fade" and stop actually doing anything you ask them to. So you may need to break your sessions up into shorter ones if he goes slighty nuttier than usual.

He's also about to go or just started to go into the "adolescent" stage - where he tries out the boundaries of your relationship. Loads of these types of dogs end up being rehomed or at the pound at this age. He starts deciding for himself what is and isn't ok. Is up to you to set limits and ignore his complaints.

Do take him to obedience or tracking training or whatever suits his breed you can get into. He's too young for formal agility but there are loads of body awareness type training you can do as preparation. Do a google for Susan Garrett and Puppy training? for some ideas. Don't worry about the hypo, find a dog club that is puppy friendly and understanding. I think that just going and being there even if your dog isn't doing anything that he's told is the starting point and if you avoid it, there will never be any improvement. So as sportswear brand says, "just do it".

I think if I had whining dog in crate - I'd cover the crate. You may need to put a lid on the crate of plywood that overhangs the crate by enough distance he can't reach with his teeth or paws, and then put a large cover over the top so he can't see out. I'd only allow him to see out when he stops whining. Pay attention to the first millisecond break in whinging and reward and then gradually up the time requirement.

Do not allow any jumping or nipping. He's going to be a very big dog. I think if he continued to nip when you turned your back - then quietly put him in the crate and close out the view. Don't tell him off or yell at him. Let him out when he's calm and quiet.

Have you tried clicker training with him? Have you got a word for "oops" not getting a reward for that effort word? That's the one I would use before I stuffed him in the crate for biting. And I would just say it "oops" not yell it or growl it. But it helps if he knows it means "no treat for that". Clicker training may also help mark the quiet times in the crate that you want to reward. You can always drop a treat through the cage.

Again - he has very short attention span and probably even shorter memory for what has been asked of him. So you will need heaps of repetition and rewards. If he's in the crate, do a couple of minutes "quiet" training, where you wait for quiet, click for quiet and treat, and repeat every few seconds.

If you need respite, see if you can find a doggy day care with a big big exercise area - where he could run with other dogs for a day or a few hours. I don't know if such things exist where you are. If you start doing obedience dog club you may find a play date friend for your dog, and they could wear each other out occaisionally.

[Rileys mum]

I am the devoted owner of a 8 month old GSP I hear you strong and clear. I think the biggest thing with this breed ( as has already been said) is that they are a working type of dog.

The best thing I ever did with my guy is get him into obedience. Every week we get to learn new things and then we work on them before the next class. He thrives on using his brain and is developing into an obedient young man . One huge learning thing for me was getting a food reward that my boy would work for. For ages I struggled with heel work etc because he wasn't interested in what food reward he was getting so would loose his attention so so frequently. I now use small pieces of frits ( high value reward) and he is a completely different dog. I can keep and get his attention within seconds now and his heel work is coming along in leaps and bounds. Just something to consider.

In regards to burning energy, I think you just need to put the effort in and either drive the 20 mins to the off leash park or walk walk walk my guy gets at least one walk daily, sometimes a second one ( short lap of block) too. It's so so so important and u will see a huge improvement. If I miss a few walks ( like recently when I was unwell) I know about it. My garden gets a puppy pruning lol. It's just boredom and their super active mind. Perhaps head to a horse store ( or online) and purchase a lunge line ( very very long lead type thing. About 20 to 25 m long) This will allow your pup to run and play but you will still have a connection to him ( I've not done this but it's just an idea that came to mind)

The breed is a high energy one so as their owners we need to do what's best for them. ( which it sounds like you are)

[Keyarna]

Thanks Mrs Rusty, the more advice the better.

On the issue of nipping and jumping, we have always taught him not to jump either. He is usually very good with the jumping part, it's when he gets in this mood that he starts nipping he gets very dominant and starts jumping too. We have crated him in the past when he displays this behaviour, it's getting him TO the crate that's the hard thing. He will nip, then run away if we go to him, rinse and repeat. (we've never made a habit of this either, when he stole things as a puppy we would walk away from him, and wait until he bought it back, not chase him so once again I don't know where he's picked this up either, perhaps my partner was teaching him naughty things when I wasnt there!

Once we do manage to get a hold of him and his collar to lead him to the crate, he will use all of his bodyweight to pull backward against us, and gnaw/bite at our arms and hands. It doesn't quite hurt but it's not acceptable either way. Once again I just don't know what to do in this situation. My partner loves dogs but gets so frustrated during these episodes I have seen him smack Easton a few times, not hard, but I know it's not helping and i've told him many times not to do it. It's hard trying to train a dog and a partner at the same time, they fuel each others bad behaviours.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Keyarna

[Rileys mum]

I'm no expert at all on this but I'm not so sure using his crate for punishment is the best idea. Is there another place you could use for separation from interaction with you other than his crate? Say a laundry or a segregated area outside or something similar? I just worry that he will begin to associate his crate with bad things rather than the positive den like environment it should be. As I said, I'm by no means an expert on it all, I'm just going by what I learnt when crate training my pup. I'd be keen to hear others opinions ( always keen to learn new training methods)

I feel for you though. Sounds like a tricky situation.

[Keyarna]

Sorry Riley's Mum, I missed your post! I will take on what you said aswell.

On the crate thing, I did realise this was a bad thing to be doing which is why i've stopped doing this now, and instead just leave him in the yard and ignore him. This is not the best either, I have to think of another area I can use as a time out zone.

[Lucy's mama]

I think we have the same dog. I feel your pain, I really do. We are also quite a drive from the park, and quite frankley, it's not safe to be there after dark when my partner gets home at 6.00pm. We do go for short walks on our street, and this is mentally exhausting to me but does nothing to satisfy Banjo and often seems to put him in one of 'those' moods. (Frustration perhaps?)

I can say though that he is oh so slowly getting better. He still has all the same horrible behaviours and the kids can't even go outside to play without asking me to bring him in, but he can sometimes go whole days with out major incidence.

Apart from regular obedience training and trying to keep up the walks, regular fetch and controlled tugging, I have done the big NILIF no-no and given him a toy that he loves. Often when he is over the top excited he directs his energy into zooming with, tossing, and shaking the toy. It also means when he does jump on the kids, he has something in his mouth already so is less likely to nip.

I actually feel really bad now for getting this dog because the kids freedom has completely evaporated. From free run of two acres, building cubbies, playing tag, riding bikes and climbing trees to having to ask permission to go outside or come back inside, 'walk slowly' 'no squealing' 'no swing while Banjo's outside' 'stay inside while I'm busy, I can't watch Banjo' 'just half an hour on your bike, I can't keep him locked up too long'

BUT he has improved so all I can do is keep training, keep managing him and hope it all falls into place as he matures. Good luck with him!

[FHRP]

Keyarna, as frustrating as it is there is no way I would be putting an 8 month old GSP beside a bike. Forced exercise like that for any length is just not good for a large growing dog. I would hold off until 18 months old.

I feel your pain, an 8 month old large 'under exercised' gundog puppy can be a real pain. I would focus on training and getting him to use his brain. Teach him tricks. Polo's early lessons in life were all about self control, and to hold it for more than a couple of seconds. Be consistent, be calm and be firm. You don't need to physicaly punish the dog, but remove all chance of reward when he can't control himself. Polo at three is still the only dog of mine which must sit and wait before going through a gate or door. He still needs those reminders.

There is a difference bewtween heeling and loose lead walking. I do not make my dogs heel when out for a walk. I do not let them pull like a steam train either, but they are not in the heel position on my left hand side. I find the head halter very good to control pulling, I used one on Polo (3 year old GSP) just this weekend when walking him in the gallery of a Spaniel & Retriever field trial as I knew that the excitement would be too much for him to remember loose leash! Yes, he does still try and pull a bit, but it is much more manageable. I would also consider one of the no pull harnesses. They are training tools that shouldn't be relied on forever, but if it comes to walking or not walking then for both yours and the dogs benefit, keep using it IMO.

Do you know anyone with a dog in your area? Any chance you could advertise for a playgroup? Can you ask someone to come over with their dog for your dog to play with? Can you hire someone to come in during the day and play with him? I would avoid big on lead walks with him though at his age. Anywhere you can take him on a long lone so that you can control his recall and let him safely run around with a bit more freedom??

Edited August 12, 2010 by FHRP

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

I dont have a GSP but my cattle x ? is around the size of a GSD and her teenage period was a bad one

the three things we did that I think made a big difference was

TOT

Nothing for nothing

Give her something I wanted her to do when she was about to start something I didnt want

the other thing we did with her was to ignore completely when she was being a cow I wouldnt even talk to her until she was sitting at my feet quietly for at least 2 mins

I also have a tug toy is MY tug toy she can play with it when I let her and ONLY then , this toy became the most desired thing in the world for her LOL

Expect that the behaviour may well get worse before it gets better as he will give it a few last intense attempts before he gives up on it

Exercise is a key for this as well try making his fetch game longer and give him a sandpit with treats dug into it to make him work a bit ( a kids clam shell type )

If you leave him in the backyard to much he is likely to only get worse as lack of stimulation and contact makes them more frantic to get their way not less

[gspx3]

GSPs are 'handed' in aged between 8 months to 18 months (particularly the males). They whinge much more than the girls and it can be so hard to control. My last boy whinged all his life and it was impossible to stop him so I just had to live with it. My first boy was from the RSPCA and was 8 months old. He was very destructive and hyper active but I am sure he had no training before I got him. Training and scent work will wear them out. Hide food for him to find but make it progressively harder for him to find. If you have to, make this your method of feeding him.

Unfortunately, too many people buy GSPs without any thought of how much time they can consume in a 1 dog family. They need company - either people or other dog(s). I am now down to just one GSP but as I am home with her most of the time she is coping (just). I simply have to live with the destruction when she is left alone.

You have a bit of work ahead of you but it will be most rewarding if you do it. However, if you can't give him your time then you might consider rehoming him.

[FHRP]

I agree with gspx3 with the whinging, and yes, especially the boys it seems. I specifically put in an order for a non-whinger but my boy whinges. He also moans, groans, squeaks, squeals and screams He's not much of a barker though! At times I really don't think he can even control his noises. I have learned to live with it, but I also have two Vizsla boys who are also notorious for whinging.... If I can't stand the noise any longer, I put him somewhere that I can't hear him.

[persephone]

may I suggest you start teaching him tricks - not just fetch/sit .. do a search on here there are lots There are also "CRATE GAMES"

IMO his crate SHOULD be his refuge, his chill out area, his den- not a place to be dragged into as punishment .

I would also suggest you try TRIANGLE of TEMPTATION - a fairly simple way of reinforcing/teaching your dog just who is in charge of life's good things :D

One other thing. Running, walking distance can often just make a dog fitter- not tire out his brain :D WORK makes him tired - having to concentrate, learn, and think.

It is similar to us humans We get so tired after a frazzling day at work , or after a visit from hard-to- handle kids/rellies . Then, what a lot of us do is go for a jog/to the gym to revitalise !

You have a dog bred to think/plan/concentrate, use his nose.... his training needs to help him use all that he has

[Monah]

just 2 things (no advice though )

FHRP knows her stuff :D

the GSP breed sub forum may be the best place for GSP advice, I'm sure many owners would have been through the same thing :D They are a lovely lovely breed xxxxxxxxx

[Pepper and Jax]

On the issue of walking on a lead... totally understand! Our GSP girl took months and months to finally "get" it, and she still pulls soemtimes, but I can now put a stop to it simply by stopping still (with feet firmly planted so she can't pull me over), and waiting til she remembers to come back to my side. Loose lead walking is wonderful when you get it. Don't give up, and don't try too many methods, pick one and stick to it. It'll be worth it in the end.

When you get nipped, maybe revert to the puppy training technique and make a noise like you're hurt? If that only excites him more, you might have to bodily lift him up (not just drag him), and put him outside, close the door and ignore til he calms down. Agree the crate's not a good punishment area, but nothing wrong with outside imho.

Our GSP has loopy moments when we get visitors too. She just gets put out of the way until they've been there for a while and she's calmed down a bit. She still gives exuberant greetings, but she calms down much quicker.

Good luck, don't give in, it gets easier, I promise!! Pepper's nearly two and she's turned into a lovely thing who only drives me nuts 20% of the time (instead of 90% )

PS: taking her to obedience training, even when she's being a brat at the time, makes her sleep for hours afterwards... exercise the brain

[raineth]

hello,

firstly I will admit I haven't read others replies, so sorry if I am doubling up.

I fostered a young GSP last year and I know where you are coming from! boy that energy just blows you away!

The thing with exercise is, that the more he does, the fitter he'll get and, the fitter he gets the less he will tire from exercise. As a mere human you will never be able to keep up with that

I reccommend that you rethink the entire way you are doing things with him. Make him work for everything, make things a challenge that he will love.

For instance I would aim to make his dinner times more challenging. buy kongs and other things that mean he has to do something to get the food to himself. You can freeze food in a kong for instance and that will keep him occupied for a long time. You can also get balls that they have to nudge in order for just one or two kibbles to fall out.

Also consider hiding his food in the backyard so he has to search for it to begin with. if you have a sand pit you can bury things in there for him to find.

Then mainly I would get really stuck into traning - always be teaching him something new. I would use a clicker and do free-shaping as well as teaching complex behaviours. These sorts of things make him feel that he is working (and also build a lovely bond between you).

lastly, don't just practice obedience at home, practice them wherever you go. You want a dog who will behave everywhere afterall So if you are going for a walk, once a block stop and do sits, drops, stays etc.

Exercise is important, and not to be neglected. At the moment he is still a bit young so you have to be careful. But also try and make the things you do with him feel like they are 'work' for him. Because he wants to work :D

[raineth]

i just realised I forgot to say something really important.

You have to teach them to have "down time". Unless to taught to chill, they will keep going and going!

They really need to learn that there are times to just hang out and do nothing.