Question For Behaviourists Please

[ninahartland]

Vickie...the few times I've had him out on his own, he's always been on lead anyway, so hard to say what his interaction with others would be.

Have always walked them all together.

He usually tries to dominate the new fosters at first, lasts about 5 minutes, probably thinks he's got a chance to not be the underdog anymore,lol

[corvus]

Corvus, good vs bad nerve is a little more complex than bold vs shy.

Bold vs shy is pretty complex, too. Says the girl turning her brain to mush trying to distil it down to a handful of behavioural indicators the average owner would be aware of. And failing. Hence prowling internet forums getting grumpy about "nerve" being talked about in such a casual, vague manner.

My bad moods and academic angst aside, you can't tell over an internet forum whether a dog has good or bad "nerve", and given the tests used to determine that are part and parcel with a host of other tests as well because "nerve" is only one aspect of a dog's personality and it's not as cut and dried as "good" or "bad" anyway, I dunno, I just feel like maybe there's not much call for speculation in a behavioural problem described over the internet, let alone a diagnosis of sorts.

Sorry Nina, promise I'm reeling this afternoon's ranting right in. In answer to your other questions, you could try try reframing the situation for Gus by teaching him to look at Riley as a trick. It might make Riley seem less intimidating to Gus if he knows he can look at him on cue and get a reward. Targeting is another activity that can reframe a situation. Confidence comes from being able to predict what will happen next, especially if it is likely to be something good. So training easy behaviours with a high reward rate can, I think, potentially teach a dog to relax a bit and be more confident. It's not going to change who they are, but it may help them be the best they can be.

I'm just throwing ideas out there, but it could help to reframe the situation for Riley as well. Perhaps his body language would be less intense (if it is intense at all to begin with) if he sees interacting with Gus as a game.

I meant by taking the other dogs out you could identify for sure that the problem was solely between Gus and Riley, for example. The more information you have the better, I figure.

[ninahartland]

Thanks Corvus, I can see what your getting at (I think ) but I wouldn't want to be rewarding the behaviour at the same time he's cowering around him, ok maybe when he's looking from a distance but then would he ever associate it with the behaviour in question?

[Vickie]

Corvus, good vs bad nerve is a little more complex than bold vs shy.

Bold vs shy is pretty complex, too. .

Your point about bad nerve only referenced shy animals...hence I thought you may have been confused or misinformed

Says the girl turning her brain to mush trying to distil it down to a handful of behavioural indicators the average owner would be aware of.

I'm sure we all appreciate your efforts

In answer to your other questions, you could try try reframing the situation for Gus by teaching him to look at Riley as a trick. It might make Riley seem less intimidating to Gus if he knows he can look at him on cue and get a reward. Targeting is another activity that can reframe a situation. Confidence comes from being able to predict what will happen next, especially if it is likely to be something good. So training easy behaviours with a high reward rate can, I think, potentially teach a dog to relax a bit and be more confident.

See this is why I suggested some professional help. Nor sure what your books say Corvus, but as an average owner, the above advice seems fraught with danger to me. As you pointed out, this is all very hard to diagnose over the internet. What you have suggested above could be fine...or it could give Gus enough confidence to challenge rather than avoid. It really does depend on exactly what is happening. Riley may interpret Gus's look as a stare/challenge.

It's not going to change who they are, but it may help them be the best they can be.

or it could change the dynamics completely & not necessarily for the best.

[Steve K9Pro]

There's something going on with my pack that I cant quite figure out and would appreciate some ideas.

One of the shepherds (male,3 years, desexed) submissively urinates when the wolfhound (male, 4 years,superlorin implant )goes near him. This happened last year for a while, then stopped for a few months but is now getting worse again. My other shep seems to be telling him off now too, though he only urinates aroung wolfie.

There's no growling or lip lifting going on, wolfie only has to stand near him and he pees.

He's definately the lowest of the pack and must give off a fear that they dont like.

My question is what can I do about it? Dont like to think of him living in constant fear .They've never had a fight or anything to make him scared in the first place and he will even go to Rileys food bowl and help himself and Riley does nothing.

Any ideas anyone?

K9: There are a number of things that could be causing this behaviour from a medical issue to a learned behaviour. I feel there is unrest in your pack and when your Wolfie comes near it triggers that insecurity in your Shepherd. His reaction is to urinate which he feels in some way will relieve the psychological pressure he is feeling.

This is but a guess though as I havent seen your dogs. After reading some of the advice I cringe as I have seen pressure related situations like this turn into huge pack fights when someone who doesnt have experience with dog packs "tries something" they read somewhere, seen somewhere or what worked for Uncle Joe...

Do yourself and your dogs a favour and have a Qualified Behaviourist look at your dogs... It wont be solved over the net.

Good luck I hope things get sorted.

[ninahartland]

Thanks K9 and for everyone else's input as well.

Now does anyone know a behaviourist they can recommend up near me (Hervey Bay )? Don't want to look in the phone book, need someone that knows what they're doing!

[huski]

Thanks K9 and for everyone else's input as well.

Now does anyone know a behaviourist they can recommend up near me (Hervey Bay )? Don't want to look in the phone book, need someone that knows what they're doing!

Hey Nina - your best bet would be Jane Harper from Dogs on Track, she has a lot of experience with dog aggression too

http://dogsontrack.com.au/

[ninahartland]

Thanks K9 and for everyone else's input as well.

Now does anyone know a behaviourist they can recommend up near me (Hervey Bay )? Don't want to look in the phone book, need someone that knows what they're doing!

Hey Nina - your best bet would be Jane Harper from Dogs on Track, she has a lot of experience with dog aggression too

http://dogsontrack.com.au/

Thanks Huski Just had a quick look at website, that must be you and Micha in the testimonials, then I noticed Deb and Monah too!

Will definately be giving her a ring!

[huski]

LOL yes it is indeed!

[corvus]

See this is why I suggested some professional help. Nor sure what your books say Corvus, but as an average owner, the above advice seems fraught with danger to me. As you pointed out, this is all very hard to diagnose over the internet. What you have suggested above could be fine...or it could give Gus enough confidence to challenge rather than avoid. It really does depend on exactly what is happening. Riley may interpret Gus's look as a stare/challenge.

All true. I'm just making suggestions like everyone else is. It's the kind of stuff you can't learn from books, anyway. It's too variable. I'm just taking a stab at it and I thought that was clear. If it wasn't, I hope it is now. Taking a stab at it is all anyone can do over the internet.

[corvus]

Thanks Corvus, I can see what your getting at (I think ) but I wouldn't want to be rewarding the behaviour at the same time he's cowering around him, ok maybe when he's looking from a distance but then would he ever associate it with the behaviour in question?

Not quite sure what you're asking, but I will say that it's not quite true that you can reward cowering. Well, it's kind of possibly true in some circumstances but not so much in most circumstances. Patricia McConnell explains it better than I can: http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/you-c...d-thunderstorms

Vickie's point about it possibly upsetting the dynamics is worth noting. I have no idea what it all looks like. I'm yet to meet a dog that treats a casual glance (which is what you would be aiming for, I guess) as a challenge, but IME things can be a fair bit more intense and touchy in a home situation between dogs that live together. It's your call what you rule out and what you don't.

[Monah]

Nina, yep ring Jane, she's excellent and well worth it.

I wouldn't play around with these dogs either, over the net, and I know them (and of course I have no skills too!!)

. they are huge and powerful. A 'mistake' would be really really awful They are all really lovely dogs too.

Tried to ring this morning, I'll ring later! I was having a think about Ari, as in NOOOOO. xxxxxxxxxxxxxx