Erny Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I have no idea really, but I'd be thinking the second. Since when I wrote, I asked DogsVic if they were FCI members & said that if they were I thought they were contravening FCI regulations, and they came back & just told me they were "considering" their FCI membership. I'm thinking the same. And if ANKC is considering their FCI membership (ie to abandon it) then I would think that is pretty indicative that it is still quite strongly erring towards removal of Working Titles from pedigrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinaJ Posted August 31, 2010 Author Share Posted August 31, 2010 Since our only defence at the moment is that as they are associate members they must adhere to the FCI rules and regulations, what could we do to prevent the removal of SchH titles from pedigrees if they do withdraw their membership from the FCI? I dont think we'd have a snow balls chance in hell if they disassociate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Since our only defence at the moment is that as they are associate members they must adhere to the FCI rules and regulations, what could we do to prevent the removal of SchH titles from pedigrees if they do withdraw their membership from the FCI? I dont think we'd have a snow balls chance in hell if they disassociate No - but it means another org could apply for FCI membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Since our only defence at the moment is that as they are associate members they must adhere to the FCI rules and regulations, what could we do to prevent the removal of SchH titles from pedigrees if they do withdraw their membership from the FCI? I dont think we'd have a snow balls chance in hell if they disassociate All I can think of is that we could refuse to register our dogs with the AnKC, they may take some notice then, but since there's no alternative registry that's pretty much shooting ourselves in the foot. Perhaps the unregistered mally people have the right idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malsrock Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Since our only defence at the moment is that as they are associate members they must adhere to the FCI rules and regulations, what could we do to prevent the removal of SchH titles from pedigrees if they do withdraw their membership from the FCI? I dont think we'd have a snow balls chance in hell if they disassociate No - but it means another org could apply for FCI membership. The sooner the better I think Erny. Other influences are steering the ANKC's ship it seems to me. What skin off the ANKC's nose is retaining titles on pedigrees unless they are trying to save costs on printer ink..........doesn't make sense from an ANKC perspective why they would entertain the idea as a good thing unless they are trying to look after another organisations agenda for the wrong reasons Can we really trust the ANKC as the sole official registery and canine administrator to do the right thing??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Since our only defence at the moment is that as they are associate members they must adhere to the FCI rules and regulations, what could we do to prevent the removal of SchH titles from pedigrees if they do withdraw their membership from the FCI? I dont think we'd have a snow balls chance in hell if they disassociate No - but it means another org could apply for FCI membership. The sooner the better I think Erny. Other influences are steering the ANKC's ship it seems to me. What skin off the ANKC's nose is retaining titles on pedigrees unless they are trying to save costs on printer ink..........doesn't make sense from an ANKC perspective why they would entertain the idea as a good thing unless they are trying to look after another organisations agenda for the wrong reasons Can we really trust the ANKC as the sole official registery and canine administrator to do the right thing??? Although I love the idea of an alternate FCI associated working dog registry in theory, I really do, my concern is that by forming another registry, we will lose any power to influence the AnKC. And only the AnKC have the political influence (through sheer numbers!) to influence the councils. The issue is bigger than keeping titles on pedigrees, I think. The issue is the AnKC's attitude towards schutzhund and other bite sports. If the AnKC stand up and proclaim that schutzhund is legitimate, I think city councils & state government will listen. If the AnKC say schutzhund dogs are dangerous, and just trying to form our own registry to get away with "attack training", then I think we're all in big trouble. Better we stay with the AnKC and try to influence them (if we get enough AnKC members writing to them, they will listen!) than abandon them and have no influence over them. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 (edited) Look what i got from Alison Hi Fellow Sportdog friends Our SA Chief Judge has a tentative acceptance from the ANKC President, Hugh Gent, to attend our SA National Championship trial this year. We will also be inviting DogsNSW to send a representative from that state to accompany Mr. Gent, with the aim, at Mr. Gent's suggestion, of taking steps towards gaining ANKC acceptance for Australian Schutzhund titles. We need to pull out all stops to put together a good entry and to make a good showing. Please get after your fellow sports men and women to enter every dog that is capable of completing a discipline - from SchH to OB or TR, BH etc. And those of us that can't enter a dog, please turn up and add your moral support to underline the relevance of the event. The ANKC hasn't looked at the Sport for over 20 years, when they had it on probation for five years. The findings from that back then were that the ANKC had no problems with the sport but they did not want to supervise it. Today it is a different political environment; people are better educated about the sport, there is a new group of people on the ANKC Board and with a new wind blowing internationally in support of Australian's participation in the sport, there is more inclination to look at the Sport again with a more open mind. First impressions are important so everyone please do your bit to make the National a good one. Please don't leave it up to others, there is a lot of legwork to be done and we're still a long way from reaching our goals for the sport. National trial schedule and other details are on the SA site www.schutzhundaustralia.com Go to Home and click on the Breaking News icon for judge's details and location etc, and click on the top line of the listings (on the front page) for the Schedule. Vanessa, can you also remind people of the up and coming National on Global Friends and invite them to attend? Thanks. Alison Would that indicate that ANKC is considering full membership with the FCI?????? Who knows, its all very confusing now, maybe the things they say and the things they do are two different ones.... Edited August 31, 2010 by MonElite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 Look what i got from AlisonHi Fellow Sportdog friends Our SA Chief Judge has a tentative acceptance from the ANKC President, Hugh Gent, to attend our SA National Championship trial this year. We will also be inviting DogsNSW to send a representative from that state to accompany Mr. Gent, with the aim, at Mr. Gent's suggestion, of taking steps towards gaining ANKC acceptance for Australian Schutzhund titles. We need to pull out all stops to put together a good entry and to make a good showing. Please get after your fellow sports men and women to enter every dog that is capable of completing a discipline - from SchH to OB or TR, BH etc. And those of us that can't enter a dog, please turn up and add your moral support to underline the relevance of the event. The ANKC hasn't looked at the Sport for over 20 years, when they had it on probation for five years. The findings from that back then were that the ANKC had no problems with the sport but they did not want to supervise it. Today it is a different political environment; people are better educated about the sport, there is a new group of people on the ANKC Board and with a new wind blowing internationally in support of Australian's participation in the sport, there is more inclination to look at the Sport again with a more open mind. First impressions are important so everyone please do your bit to make the National a good one. Please don't leave it up to others, there is a lot of legwork to be done and we're still a long way from reaching our goals for the sport. National trial schedule and other details are on the SA site www.schutzhundaustralia.com Go to Home and click on the Breaking News icon for judge's details and location etc, and click on the top line of the listings (on the front page) for the Schedule. Vanessa, can you also remind people of the up and coming National on Global Friends and invite them to attend? Thanks. Alison Would that indicate that ANKC is considering full membership with the FCI?????? Who knows, its all very confusing now, maybe the things they say and the things they do are two different ones.... Go Alison! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 (edited) As to the Sch Nationals - well Ill be for sure doing the BBQ I will as always be in charge of the food , and might decide to make a fool of myself and my dog (that is not ready to compete) to enter.... So please come over and support the sport and the club that is organising it. These events are not big, we need more people there!!! Edited August 31, 2010 by MonElite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesmaam Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Hugh (and Dogs NSW) have also been asked to attend the AUSC Nationals the following weekend (16, 17, 18 OCT) It will give him a much better snapshot of where the sport is at these days compared to 20yrs ago For more info please go to http://nationals2010.sportdogaustralia.com...ls_2010_005.htm Look what i got from AlisonHi Fellow Sportdog friends Our SA Chief Judge has a tentative acceptance from the ANKC President, Hugh Gent, to attend our SA National Championship trial this year. We will also be inviting DogsNSW to send a representative from that state to accompany Mr. Gent, with the aim, at Mr. Gent's suggestion, of taking steps towards gaining ANKC acceptance for Australian Schutzhund titles. We need to pull out all stops to put together a good entry and to make a good showing. Please get after your fellow sports men and women to enter every dog that is capable of completing a discipline - from SchH to OB or TR, BH etc. And those of us that can't enter a dog, please turn up and add your moral support to underline the relevance of the event. The ANKC hasn't looked at the Sport for over 20 years, when they had it on probation for five years. The findings from that back then were that the ANKC had no problems with the sport but they did not want to supervise it. Today it is a different political environment; people are better educated about the sport, there is a new group of people on the ANKC Board and with a new wind blowing internationally in support of Australian's participation in the sport, there is more inclination to look at the Sport again with a more open mind. First impressions are important so everyone please do your bit to make the National a good one. Please don't leave it up to others, there is a lot of legwork to be done and we're still a long way from reaching our goals for the sport. National trial schedule and other details are on the SA site www.schutzhundaustralia.com Go to Home and click on the Breaking News icon for judge's details and location etc, and click on the top line of the listings (on the front page) for the Schedule. Vanessa, can you also remind people of the up and coming National on Global Friends and invite them to attend? Thanks. Alison Would that indicate that ANKC is considering full membership with the FCI?????? Who knows, its all very confusing now, maybe the things they say and the things they do are two different ones.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Since our only defence at the moment is that as they are associate members they must adhere to the FCI rules and regulations, what could we do to prevent the removal of SchH titles from pedigrees if they do withdraw their membership from the FCI? I dont think we'd have a snow balls chance in hell if they disassociate No - but it means another org could apply for FCI membership. No - they cant Ive had correspondence with their boss cocky and all but the ANKC are locked out even thoughthey are not full members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesmaam Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 (edited) Since our only defence at the moment is that as they are associate members they must adhere to the FCI rules and regulations, what could we do to prevent the removal of SchH titles from pedigrees if they do withdraw their membership from the FCI? I dont think we'd have a snow balls chance in hell if they disassociate No - but it means another org could apply for FCI membership. No - they cant Ive had correspondence with their boss cocky and all but the ANKC are locked out even thoughthey are not full members. Correspondence with the FCI????? as there would be no point asking the ANKC would there.......... Edited September 1, 2010 by Yesmaam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapferhund Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Fabulous news from Alison isn't it !!!! This is Schutzhunds chance to showcase the sport, the dogs and how lovely schutzhund people are and can be. But I have to say...after the aggression and rudeness directed at the ANKC by some on here....it worries me a little that you might allow it to show on that weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 :p show it to whom??? and why??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malsrock Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 Since our only defence at the moment is that as they are associate members they must adhere to the FCI rules and regulations, what could we do to prevent the removal of SchH titles from pedigrees if they do withdraw their membership from the FCI? I dont think we'd have a snow balls chance in hell if they disassociate :p No - but it means another org could apply for FCI membership. The sooner the better I think Erny. Other influences are steering the ANKC's ship it seems to me. What skin off the ANKC's nose is retaining titles on pedigrees unless they are trying to save costs on printer ink..........doesn't make sense from an ANKC perspective why they would entertain the idea as a good thing unless they are trying to look after another organisations agenda for the wrong reasons Can we really trust the ANKC as the sole official registery and canine administrator to do the right thing??? Although I love the idea of an alternate FCI associated working dog registry in theory, I really do, my concern is that by forming another registry, we will lose any power to influence the AnKC. And only the AnKC have the political influence (through sheer numbers!) to influence the councils. The issue is bigger than keeping titles on pedigrees, I think. The issue is the AnKC's attitude towards schutzhund and other bite sports. If the AnKC stand up and proclaim that schutzhund is legitimate, I think city councils & state government will listen. If the AnKC say schutzhund dogs are dangerous, and just trying to form our own registry to get away with "attack training", then I think we're all in big trouble. Better we stay with the AnKC and try to influence them (if we get enough AnKC members writing to them, they will listen!) than abandon them and have no influence over them. JMO. I don't disagree with your feelings which have good merit I think Staranaise, but wouldn't it be a more powerful stamp of authority to have support from the likes of the FCI, WUSV etc to debate government bite sport legislation in opposition to an ANKC view???. The ANKC, a body that has never been involved in bite sports or has any real knowledge to provide a qualified opinion against world recognised organisations who conduct the sports, the government would have to listen to the most valid experience. The ANKC don't even recognise the sports let alone fight for them, but an organisation who will fight and use specialised word level entities in support I think would be a better option to gain the required outcome. Fiona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 (edited) Ive read the letter from GSDCS to ANKC urging them to remove the proposal of the title changes from the October agenda. Ive got a pdf copy if anyone wants it emailed. Edited September 2, 2010 by MonElite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpette Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 An excellent letter that is succinct, and clearly states one of the possible implications of this action with regard to Victorian laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapferhund Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 (edited) ...and what a very powerful letter it is !!! Regardless of breed, we ALL should take the time and write to the GSDCA's President thanking him for standing up for what's right for us and our dogs. ;) This problem with the ANKC and titles is not over yet....until their October meeting...so I hope everyone doesn't now become too complacent . We all need to keep at and on the heels of our Kennel Controls about this. So keep writing and get onto your breed clubs (Rottie, Dobe, Mal etc) to write. I have written once and will do again and again until this fiasco is resolved . Edited September 2, 2010 by Tapferhund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesmaam Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Here you go 1st September 2010 Mr. H. Gent, ANKC Administrator, P O Box 309, Carina, Qld, 4152 Dear Hugh, Re: Removal of FCI Recognised Titles Since the latest fiasco on the ANKC refusing to place legitimate overseas FCI Internationally recognised titles on imported dogs Certificates of Registration, I have as you can imagine been inundated with calls. On the weekend of the 28/29th of August, I held an Executive Meeting of the GSDCA in Melbourne where we discussed this issue and now write to you in regard to this matter. It was unanimous at our meeting that the German Shepherd Dog Council will not accept any decision made by the ANKC to interfere with the Registration Certificates or titles of imported dogs. It was strongly felt that such interference was clearly overstepping the line and mandate of the ANKC whose fundamental purpose is to keep a record of purebred dogs. I don’t know who is responsible for this decision but really, all it achieves is alienating more of the already dwindling fraternity. Would it be pertinent to ask how the Gundog owners would feel if retrieving titles were removed from their paperwork because it offended someone that the dogs actually retrieve a rabbit or pigeon, dead as it may be? I won’t go over old ground on the translation of a foreign language but who ever translated Schutz (protection) into attack, the complete opposite, clearly needs to be re- educated. These titles are a prerequisite for breeding in the country of origin and ensure the character and fit for purpose of the breeds is maintained, which is why it is important that the titles remain on the Registration Certificate for future breeding programs. The GSDCA verifies through the SV, a large majority of titles claimed by the owners of imported GSD’s, and have absolutely no problem recognising and including those verified titles on paperwork such as advertising, Breed Surveys etc. It is of paramount importance that these legitimately earned titles remain on the pedigree/registration certificate. Neither the ANKC nor the GSDCA have any right to interfere with such documentation. Another important thing to consider here is, should there ever be an incident involving one of these imports, the ANKC could be perceived as aiding an owner to conceal the fact that an animal has such titles in order that they don’t have to comply with certain state laws such as described in the Dangerous Dog Act in Victoria. I would urge that before anymore damage is done, the ANKC takes this item off the October Conference agenda and makes an immediate announcement that they will continue to include verified titles gained overseas on the Certificate of Registration. The GSDCA would like to offer assistance to the ANKC in the verification of GSD titles gained overseas, if required. I’m sure that the same offer would apply from all similarly affected breeds. Your earliest response would be appreciated. Yours sincerely, Bruce Knight ………………….. Bruce Knight President German Shepherd Dog Council of Australia Inc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malsrock Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Is the GSDCA saying the do recognise Schutzund, they don't or only in specific circumstances??? Great letter, but somewhat contradictory to their policies i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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