Removal Of Titles Gained

[malsrock]

Thanks Greg. That's a help. For me, and I'm sure, for others.

If anyone else (Tapf inclusive - as you're quite 'up' with the happenings/workings in this regard) have extra points that would do well to raise with the ANKC and/or VicDogs (or for anyone else whom we might wish to send a letter to) that would be helpful too.

In the meantime, I've shot off an email to the FCI (I think it was the FCI ) asking it to clarify whether ANKC is or isn't an FCI Member, in ANY capacity. I think we need some current confirmation there, from the horse's mouth.

Good work to Greg and Erny, your letters are excellent. Erny, I think a resolution by the FCI on the ANKC's membership status is vitally important to see where we stand in that regard. Not to disbelieve the suggestion that they are not members, but we need a conclusive determination on that matter I think. If they are members of the FCI, to point out a breach of protocol by removing titles could also be adventagious to the task IMHO

Edited August 29, 2010 by malsrock

[Erny]

Thanks Greg - will amend my letter accordingly.

And I agree, Melrock. I don't like going into these things on assumptions. Particularly as in the case of ANKC being a member of FCI (in whatever capacity) has been very "on again; off again". And I do believe it is vitally important that we know for certain. And if ANKC is not, apart from anything else it means the door is open for another org to perhaps take up the option ???

Don't know what response nor how long it will take for a response to be received. Last time I wrote to them it took a while, and their response was in German. I'm wavering in my confidence, though, that the email address I wrote to is for the FCI. I have a feeling it was the SV (or something). I get a bit lost with these names/initials. Is there someone else with contact to the FCI who perhaps could email directly, to ask whether ANKC is or isn't a member in ANY capacity?

Edited August 29, 2010 by Erny

[Tapferhund]

*sigh* ...wouldn't it be easier to email Dogs Vic for the information you want on whether we are FCI members or not? If nothing else the reply would be would be quick and in english!

Here is the CEO's , Mrs E. White email address

[email protected]

And if ANKC is not, apart from anything else it means the door is open for another org to perhaps take up the option ???

I don't think so! What 'other' organization is out there to 'take up the option?'

[Erny]

*sigh*

That wasn't called for.

What about your letter, Tapferhund? Will you put it up to add to the letter writing ideas?

Edited August 29, 2010 by Erny

[Tapferhund]

Tapf .... it would probably be helpful if you are able to put up a copy of your letter, if you would? People would be able to read, gain some writing inspiration and form their own letter/s from there.

believe it or not I wasn't born yesterday Erny. I really don't think people need 'my help' ;) on how to write letters.

The CEO's email address I gave you (previous post) is from the reply I received to my letter to Dogs Vic.

The other email address you need you will find in other pages in this topic.

;)

[Erny]

I really don't think people need 'my help' ...

I wasn't expecting that you would (although was hoping, seeing as you are encouraging others to write).

Not sure what your "not born yesterday" comment was about. But not to worry. ;)

Thanks to Greg for helping out .

Edited August 29, 2010 by Erny

[Tapferhund]

That wasn't called for.

Why not! I am sitting here with a coffee reading about writing to the FCI when it makes more sense to write to 'the source' Dogs Victoria.

[malsrock]

*sigh* ...wouldn't it be easier to email Dogs Vic for the information you want on whether we are FCI members or not? If nothing else the reply would be would be quick and in english!

Here is the CEO's , Mrs E. White email address

[email protected]

And if ANKC is not, apart from anything else it means the door is open for another org to perhaps take up the option ???

I don't think so! What 'other' organization is out there to 'take up the option?'

With respect Tapferhund, Dogsvic could tell you anything. It's best coming from the FCI regarding membership status IMHO

Another organisation can easily be formed to take up the FCI membership status for Australia if the ANKC isn't

[Tapferhund]

I really don't think people need 'my help' ...

I wasn't expecting that you would (although was hoping, seeing as you are encouraging others to write).

Not sure what your "not born yesterday" comment was about. But not to worry. ;)

Thanks to Greg for helping out .

No, I am not going to put my letters up Erny. Apart from the fact people on this forum are capable enough to write their own letters, you will just have to take my word that mine are done, sent and i have replies to all bar one...the FCI letter.

;) This is one delish latte!!

[Erny]

It's ok. Had the wrong address for FCI but have now re-addressed. The site shows english, so hopefully the communication between us won't be difficult. I would rather hear this from the FCI. Besides - if Australia is not a member, then its website needs updating/amending. So they might as well be aware anyway ;).

I don't care about your letters Tapferhund, nor whether you sent them or not. Just wanted to see how much you were willing to help the cause that you say you're supporting and hoping that you would. Optimistic. That's me ;) .

Edited August 29, 2010 by Erny

[Tapferhund]

*sigh* ...wouldn't it be easier to email Dogs Vic for the information you want on whether we are FCI members or not? If nothing else the reply would be would be quick and in english!

Here is the CEO's , Mrs E. White email address

[email protected]

And if ANKC is not, apart from anything else it means the door is open for another org to perhaps take up the option ???

I don't think so! What 'other' organization is out there to 'take up the option?'

With respect Tapferhund, Dogsvic could tell you anything. It's best coming from the FCI regarding membership status IMHO

Another organisation can easily be formed to take up the FCI membership status for Australia if the ANKC isn't

Malsrock, I am lost for words ;) May I ask..are you a member of a controlling body?? And....what do you mean by your second sentence?????

[Tapferhund]

Optimistic. That's me

Optimistic??? Is that what you call it . Okay.....I'll believe it ;)

I am writing on this forum and others to bring it to the attention of people........so that's helping the cause too !

Edited August 31, 2010 by Tapferhund

[Erny]

I am writing on this forum and others to bring it to the attention of people........so that's helping the cause too !

Good girl .

[malsrock]

*sigh* ...wouldn't it be easier to email Dogs Vic for the information you want on whether we are FCI members or not? If nothing else the reply would be would be quick and in english!

Here is the CEO's , Mrs E. White email address

[email protected]

And if ANKC is not, apart from anything else it means the door is open for another org to perhaps take up the option ???

I don't think so! What 'other' organization is out there to 'take up the option?'

With respect Tapferhund, Dogsvic could tell you anything. It's best coming from the FCI regarding membership status IMHO

Another organisation can easily be formed to take up the FCI membership status for Australia if the ANKC isn't

Malsrock, I am lost for words ;) May I ask..are you a member of a controlling body?? And....what do you mean by your second sentence?????

Tapferhund, I took your post as recommending to ask Dogsvic if the ANKC are members of the FCI where personally I would prefer to hear it from the FCI themselves if the the ANKC are members or not. If the ANKC are not members of the FCI, they can virtually do as they please, but if they are members and breaching FCI protocol, it adds a further dimension into the debate with added pressure applied for why they shouldn't be removing working titles from a dog's pedigree.

The FCI as far as I am aware, permit only one organisation from each country to be a member. If the ANKC are not members, it leaves it open for another organisation to apply for Australian FCI membership I would imagine which is up to the FCI if it's accepted or not. I am a member of DogsSA which I have already written to them regarding this situation as both my dogs have Schutzhund/IPO working titles in their ancestory.

Edited August 29, 2010 by malsrock

[Tapferhund]

Tapferhund, I took your post as recommending to ask Dogsvic if the ANKC are members of the FCI

That's right....OR DogsSA if you live in SA...and the same for Q'ld, NSW,WA etc. for those who live there.

where personally I would prefer to hear it from the FCI themselves if the the ANKC are members or not.

;) But why....when you will get exactly the same answer from DogsSA if you were to email them. Any of the State bodies,including their representatives who make up the ANKC, are not going to tell you 'porkies' one way or another on the issue. If we are members they will say so and if we are not they will say so.

If the ANKC are not members of the FCI, they can virtually do as they please, but if they are members and breaching FCI protocol, it adds a further dimension into the debate with added pressure applied for why they shouldn't be removing working titles from a dog's pedigree.

The ANKC can do as they please anyway....UNLESS they get huge member reaction over an issue. To belong to the FCI does not automatically give the FCI over ruling power over a country's official dog organization. (If anyone is out there who can correct me on that..please do!)

The FCI as far as I am aware, permit only one organisation from each country to be a member. If the ANKC are not members, it leaves it open for another organisation to apply for Australian FCI membership

........and the ONLY organization in Australia is the ANKC. No different to any other country as each country has , as far as I am aware, ONLY one Canine Control governing over all in their particular country. So it can't leave it open to 'another' organization...because there isn't one.

(Again......if someone knows differently....please enlighten us all)

I would imagine which is up to the FCI if it's accepted or not. I am a member of DogsSA which I have already written to them regarding this situation

as both my dogs have Schutzhund/IPO working titles in their ancestory.

;)

Edited August 30, 2010 by Tapferhund

[Aidan]

........and the ONLY organization in Australia is the ANKC. No different to any other country as each country has , as far as I am aware, ONLY one Canine Control governing over all in their particular country.

This is incorrect.

[malsrock]

........and the ONLY organization in Australia is the ANKC. No different to any other country as each country has , as far as I am aware, ONLY one Canine Control governing over all in their particular country.

This is incorrect.

I agree with Aiden. As far as I am aware, there can be as many registeries or controlling bodies in any country as anyone wishes to have, but only "one" will be FCI affiliated. The USA have several where I think the AKC is the FCI affiliated body, there is also the UKC which isn't and a few others too. There are breed specific registers, working dog registers and many that are not FCI affliliated around the world and some people have dogs registered with two or more registeries in some countries.

There is nothing to stop a working dog registery being formed where say a litter can only be registered with them from work titled parents for example. The litter would have ANKC registration "PLUS" registration from the working dog body who recognise Australian Schutzhund or KNPV titles etc. If someone is looking for a working dog with a recorded history on a more work stringent model, they could look at litters registered with the working body as the first port of call and the ANKC for those people becomes only a formality.

An FCI affiliated organisation does have an obligation to follow certain FCI protocol according to rules of membership, so I guess it amounts to what the FCI will do about the membership of organisations who don't play the game perhaps

[Staranais]

NZ also has several different purebred dog registries. The NZKC is the main one that recognises many different breeds, but there is also a working dog registry for trial winning huntaways & heading dogs, as well as some other breed specific registries of various qualities (mini foxies, american pitbull terriers, etc). I'm not sure if any of them are FCI associates.

I am pretty sure many other countries are the same. The USA has the UKC for example, as well as the AKC.

I would be prepared to register my girl with an alternative FCI associated registry instead of the AnKC when/if we come to Aussie, if one were to be created. But it would be a lot of work to create another quality purebred registry in Australia, and who's going to do it? Seems to me that it's better to concentrate on trying to persuade the AnKC to recognise working titles, and persuade them to join the FCI, than for people to break away and form another organisation unless absolutely necessary.

[malsrock]

NZ also has several different purebred dog registries. The NZKC is the main one that recognises many different breeds, but there is also a working dog registry for trial winning huntaways & heading dogs, as well as some other breed specific registries of various qualities (mini foxies, american pitbull terriers, etc). I'm not sure if any of them are FCI associates.

I am pretty sure many other countries are the same. The USA has the UKC for example, as well as the AKC.

I would be prepared to register my girl with an alternative FCI associated registry instead of the AnKC when/if we come to Aussie, if one were to be created. But it would be a lot of work to create another quality purebred registry in Australia, and who's going to do it? Seems to me that it's better to concentrate on trying to persuade the AnKC to recognise working titles, and persuade them to join the FCI, than for people to break away and form another organisation unless absolutely necessary.

In a nutshell, the ANKC just need to learn and play the game properly without this idiotic blindness towards working activities and titles. It shouldn't matter what breed clubs or state organisations think about anything FCI sanctioned and the ANKC need the strength to say for example, Schutzhund/IPO is FCI recognised and there will be no discussion on the matter.

The same applies to the "attack training" perceptions. The ANKC shouldn't take perceptions of this nature on board and should never be entered into. If the FCI say that Schutzhund/IPO isn't attack training, the subject should be closed on that basis. What I think is totally frustrating, is that the ANKC if they were prepared to seek the support, have the world bodies behind them to argue idiotic whims that are presented like the Victorian legislation. If the FCI, WUSV etc presented an opposition debate to the government on the subject supported by the ANKC, there may be different outcomes and laws resulting.

It seems that the ANKC just sit there nodding their head to any nonesense presented by a breed club or whatever without reserching the credibility of the presentations properly, if at all???.

[Yesmaam]

http://gsscc.ca/home.aspx

A club like this would be good.