Removal Of Titles Gained

[Tapferhund]

Erny,

It's simple.......

The ANKC directive was on the Dogs Vic website......and it was brought to the attention of GSD people .

I have written to the FCI, DogsVic, WUSV and the GSDCA and so far I have heard back from DogsVic and the GSDCA and they (GSDCA) have taken and are taking action by getting in contact with other breed clubs.

That's all any of us know at the moment .

Edited August 31, 2010 by Tapferhund

[Kavik]

OK maybe he is a little funny looking. It's not his fault Poor Diesel

[SharpShep]

Why didn't the GSDCA intervene with the Victorian dangerous dog laws in regard to Schutzhund titles dogs given that they have the majority membership base who own titled dogs to prove they are not dangerous. The GSDCA was in the box seat to argue against the legislation and make a stand that a titled dog is no community threat???. All they did was work at providing an exemption for titled dogs to be shown without a muzzle and collar requirements in the show ring. In effect, they agreed with the government stance that titled dogs are dangerous which they know damn well is a blatent unthruth.

Not true.

This legislation concerns dogs in Victoria only, so it was dealt with by the GSDCV, not the GSDCA.

The GSDCV's original proposal to the DPI was to have Sch titled dogs made exempt from the entire requirements of the Dangerous Dog legislation. They asked for this, because they do not believe that Sch titled dogs are dangerous.

Unfortunately, the DPI would not recognise their request and would only grant them a partial exemption.

Thus we ended up with what we have now.

The GSDCA had previously come under notice by the SV to explain why they didn't conduct themselves under SV rule regarding working titles and lied to the SV claiming that Schutzhund was illegal in Australia long before the Victorian law was implemented. I know that Allison Kollenberg from Schutzhund Australia had the paperwork to confirm this situation was the truth. The GSDCA/V whatever, was then believed to have been the primary instigator to have the Victorian law implemented but in effect shot themselves in the foot with the titled imported dogs apparantly???.

Ultimately, we know the GSD clubs stance on Schutzhund which is no secret, we know they don't conduct themselves in accordance with the SV and FCI requirements in the best interests of the breed. Looking at the big picture in the history of GSD breedings in Australia, apart from the breed surveyed imported dogs, there has only been "ONE" dog that I am aware of produced in Australia that achieved WUSV compliance and recognition was Nordenstamm Chiller. The production of only one compliant dog in the scheem of things IMHO leaves some substantial room for improvement of the present system.

[SharpShep]

I wonder when everyone will stop bickering amongst themselves when at the end of the day they all have the same purpose. What is done, is done, and lets just move on to see how we can all come together to rectify this.

Well said wednesday.

This thread is turning into a GSDCA bashing episode.

We all need to get back on track and concentrate our efforts into something constructive, with regard to the original topic.

Sharpshep and others, have you actually done anything positive about letting those that matter know your feelings on this subject? Getting on forums and bitching to each other is not what we need to rectify this situation.

The GSDCA is the cause of the whole Schutzhund debarkle by choosing not to play by the rules in the first place and adopting anit-Schutzhund policies contrary to the requirements to run off on their own tangents. What hope is there when the major association who should have been well and truly operating in compliance with the SV by now doesn't support work testing and titling their dogs. If all the breeding GSD's in the country were titled as they should be amounting to hundreds of dogs instead of a handful of imports and Schutzhund training was mainstream, there wouldn't be the issue presented today. It would be well and truly established that Schutzhund trained dogs are not dangerous and would have never come under the spotlight being just part and parcel of breeding particular working dogs.

[Erny]

I think Sharshep's contributions here have been helpful in that, in a very succinct but understandable way, s/he has painted the picture, bother historically and currently, that readers (who might not have known about the history before, nor even understood the impact of the current situation) would find helpful to understand. It is hard to write letters when you only have half or a quarter of the information that stands as the background from whence decisions by the ANKC may have come.

I intend to put a letter together. Working Titles and trial rules/politics is not something I am first hand experienced in, so I will be writing my letter carefully. I also intend to send a CC of it to the FCI. I am not (yet) a member of the FCI as such. But I am a member of the ANKC and as it is an Associate Member of the FCI, does that carry through as some form of membership with the FCI ????? .

[SharpShep]

SharpShep.....you disappoint me. Its become very obvious you , like the other GSD bashers on here , are not interested in preserving our dogs pedigrees,regardless of breed , but are only interested in stirring up the past of which we can't change and causing trouble over it.

Get over it and move on!

You can change it Taps easily. All it takes is the GSD club members to grab the SV book stand up and move a motion that we operate under SV rule. Each state GSD organisation goes to the GSDCA with same motion and the GSDCA has no option other than to comply. So what is preventing that from happening which I could only conclude is the motivation of self interest and not the interest of the breeds future integrity???.

[Tapferhund]

Erny, if you are a member of the ANKC and would like to write a letter to them voicing your concerns ...then do.

Page 1 of this topic has the ANKC directive...its self explanatory...and its a load of rubbish and why they came up with it nobody knows....as no one was consulted over it.

[Erny]

Sharo Shep, you are a laugh a minute. Sorry but you really don't know what you are talking about.

I will write the letter - thanks for your encouragement . But I'm not understanding something. What Sharpshep wrote above ....

All it takes is the GSD club members to grab the SV book stand up and move a motion that we operate under SV rule. Each state GSD organisation goes to the GSDCA with same motion and the GSDCA has no option other than to comply. So what is preventing that from happening which I could only conclude is the motivation of self interest and not the interest of the breeds future integrity???.

.... makes sense to me. Perhaps me being a bit naive . But if I am, it's because I obviously don't understand the GSDCA's workings well enough. Are you able and willing to explain why Sharpshep's suggestion is laughable?

[SharpShep]

Sharo Shep, you are a laugh a minute. Sorry but you really don't know what you are talking about.

What I do know is that the GSDCA doesn't operate under SV rule, that I am 101% correct. I don't find it funny that they don't, I find it extremely sad that not many appear to have the motivation to fix the problem in the best interests of producing GSD's compliant with world standards which could be achieved if they wanted to.

Taps, I am not personally projecting my own hair brain scheem, what I have projected is the operation of the German SV to represent how things are "supposed" to be done and the fact that we operate to the contrary. Given that I can't get an answer as to how the breed's correctness is maintained leaving out half of the quality control testing that the SV determines mandatory, leaves me disolusioned as to the GSDCA's ability to maintain the functionality, integrity and traits of a working breed.

[SharpShep]

Sharo Shep, you are a laugh a minute. Sorry but you really don't know what you are talking about.

I will write the letter - thanks for your encouragement . But I'm not understanding something. What Sharpshep wrote above ....

All it takes is the GSD club members to grab the SV book stand up and move a motion that we operate under SV rule. Each state GSD organisation goes to the GSDCA with same motion and the GSDCA has no option other than to comply. So what is preventing that from happening which I could only conclude is the motivation of self interest and not the interest of the breeds future integrity???.

.... makes sense to me. Perhaps me being a bit naive . But if I am, it's because I obviously don't understand the GSDCA's workings well enough. Are you able and willing to explain why Sharpshep's suggestion is laughable?

I would also like to know why my suggestion is laughable too I know that a few years ago, Schutzhund Australia sent a proposal of assistance to to the GSDCA's AGM to provide the means to title their dogs, and the proposal was never tabled for the members to vote upon. What they did, was take a vote upon maintaining the same anti-Schutzhund policy of non involvement and the members were not informed by the GSDCA'a executive that Schutzhund Australia had presented a proposal to be voted upon. The GSDCA then told Schutzhund Australia that their proposal was rejected by the membership

[Staranais]

I intend to put a letter together. Working Titles and trial rules/politics is not something I am first hand experienced in, so I will be writing my letter carefully. I also intend to send a CC of it to the FCI. I am not (yet) a member of the FCI as such. But I am a member of the ANKC and as it is an Associate Member of the FCI, does that carry through as some form of membership with the FCI ????? .

Please do! If I ever move to Aussie, I'd love my girl to keep her full pedigree. I don't think a person can actually join the FCI, so I think being a member of AnKC (or NZKC) makes you as much a member of FCI as anyone is.

[wednesday]

You wouldn't believe those who told you the GSDCA had been in contact with them...remember?

Wednesday didnt either.... I guess thats because both of us are active members of our clubs and noone contacted the Rottie or the Dobe club. Plain and simple?

Okay, if 'Bruce' is the president of the GSDCA then he didn't know anything about it until a Rotti person called him in regards to the removal of titles.

The ANKC has rescinded this directive temporarily and will discuss at their next meeting, the Rotti people have estimated the closing time for agenda items to be around now. By the time you have your October meeting MonElite it may be too late. If you haven't done so already, find out from your National Council to see what you need to do to make them get involved directly.

I think that the removal of these titles is going to make the situation worse. People will lie over what titles dogs hold, and it merely hides the fact that a dog is ScH trained (or part thereof). Whether the title in on a pedigree or not, that dog will still have the same training - so what bloody difference does it make?

In this twisted logic, does taking a red collar off a dangerous dog make the dog not dangerous? Does taking the Grand Champion title off a dogs pedigree, make that dog not a Grand Champion? Does taking the words (AI) off a pedigree make that dog no longer a product of Artificial Insemination? Just because they don't condone ScH training simply removing the title from the pedigree doesn't suck it out of the dog - it's just ridiculous. Are they going to move to have any ScH trained dogs added to the banned import list? Are they going to ban ScH trained dogs from competing in any ANKC sanctioned events? How far will it go?

On a side note regarding the VIC dangerous dog legislation - how did the GSD ScH trained dogs get exemption? Did the VIC legislators get a hat and put various breeds in it and then whichever one they plucked out would be exempt or was there actually a discussion that involved the GSD Club of VIC? Or did the GSDCA get involved? - just if anyone knows.

[Nekhbet]

how did the GSD ScH trained dogs get exemption? Did the VIC legislators get a hat and put various breeds in it and then whichever one they plucked out would be exempt or was there actually a discussion that involved the GSD Club of VIC? Or did the GSDCA get involved? - just if anyone knows.

GSDC got it done.

[Tapferhund]

Erny, get a Shepherd, join the club, get on committee, get involved ! Then you will understand ALL ! :D

so I think being a member of AnKC (or NZKC) makes you as much a member of FCI as anyone is.

Staranais,

Only if the ANKC and NZKC are members . I know I have ben saying 'yes we are' 'no we're not' members.......but I found out the facts today.....Australia is not a full member or an associate member of the FCI. NZKC......I have no idea.

[TrinaJ]

Fighting with each other will get us no where!!

It doesn't matter if the GSDCV started this or not, that's not the issue. The issue at hand is that we need to get submissions into the ANKC to oppose this and make sure the decision stays reversed. We also need to make sure our CLubs are represented and discuss the submissions, which the rottweiler Clubs are doing.

[Janba]

Erny, get a Shepherd, join the club, get on committee, get involved ! Then you will understand ALL ! ;)

:D

I have been reading this thread with interest and one thing that has stood out to me is people complaining about what is done but no one taking active steps towards changing things. It is no good complaining about what the GSDL does unless you are willing to be an active member and lobby for changes. It is possible, even as just a member, to get

a motion tabled and voted on at a meeting - you just have to be prepared to put in the work to get the support to get it passed. You can work towards getting that motion then put to the GSDCA, and if you do the work to get the different states in agreement, get it passed. I have been involved in trying to do this in my breed with other issues and it is hard work but entirely doable.

My dogs ancestors main achievements - international champion sheepdogs and international driving champions aren't recognised by the ANKC and not printed on his ANKC pedigree but it doesn't really detract from the fact he is descended from these dogs and that his work ethic and ability are a product of breeding from these dogs.

[Janba]

Erny, get a Shepherd, join the club, get on committee, get involved ! Then you will understand ALL ! ;)

:D

I have been reading this thread with interest and one thing that has stood out to me is people complaining about what is done but no one taking active steps towards changing things. It is no good complaining about what the GSDL does unless you are willing to be an active member and lobby for changes. It is possible, even as just a member, to get

a motion tabled and voted on at a meeting - you just have to be prepared to put in the work to get the support to get it passed. You can work towards getting that motion then put to the GSDCA, and if you do the work to get the different states in agreement, get it passed. I have been involved in trying to do this in my breed with other issues and it is hard work but entirely doable.

My dogs ancestors main achievements - international champion sheepdogs and international driving champions aren't recognised by the ANKC and not printed on his ANKC pedigree but it doesn't really detract from the fact he is descended from these dogs and that his work ethic and ability are a product of breeding from these dogs.

[wednesday]

Erny, get a Shepherd, join the club, get on committee, get involved ! Then you will understand ALL ! ;)

:D

I have been reading this thread with interest and one thing that has stood out to me is people complaining about what is done but no one taking active steps towards changing things. It is no good complaining about what the GSDL does unless you are willing to be an active member and lobby for changes. It is possible, even as just a member, to get

a motion tabled and voted on at a meeting - you just have to be prepared to put in the work to get the support to get it passed. You can work towards getting that motion then put to the GSDCA, and if you do the work to get the different states in agreement, get it passed. I have been involved in trying to do this in my breed with other issues and it is hard work but entirely doable.

My dogs ancestors main achievements - international champion sheepdogs and international driving champions aren't recognised by the ANKC and not printed on his ANKC pedigree but it doesn't really detract from the fact he is descended from these dogs and that his work ethic and ability are a product of breeding from these dogs.

Rotti people are doing quite a bit behind the scenes, I just don't want to post it publicly as it's not my place to - and I don't want to give certain orgs the 'heads up' either

[Staranais]

Staranais,

Only if the ANKC and NZKC are members . I know I have ben saying 'yes we are' 'no we're not' members.......but I found out the facts today.....Australia is not a full member or an associate member of the FCI. NZKC......I have no idea.

Oh really? Interesting, It says on the FCI website that they both are associate members, but perhaps it is out of date. Did the AnKC tell you they weren't members?

On the bright side, that clears the way for a FCI associated body for working dog breeders in Australia.

I'm grateful for Erny getting involved even though she has no shepherd. The more AnKC members complaining to the AnKC about their policies, the more likely they will listen.

[SharpShep]

Staranais,

Only if the ANKC and NZKC are members . I know I have ben saying 'yes we are' 'no we're not' members.......but I found out the facts today.....Australia is not a full member or an associate member of the FCI. NZKC......I have no idea.

Oh really? Interesting, It says on the FCI website that they both are associate members, but perhaps it is out of date. Did the AnKC tell you they weren't members?

On the bright side, that clears the way for a FCI associated body for working dog breeders in Australia.

I'm grateful for Erny getting involved even though she has no shepherd. The more AnKC members complaining to the AnKC about their policies, the more likely they will listen.

I agree totally Staranais, another body independant with FCI membership is the best solution.