Removal Of Titles Gained

[Tarmons]

The Rotti clubs were not aware of any of this as far as I know. The first the Rotti clubs were aware of any of this was the decision to remove the titles, and the first thing that people suggested was contacting the other BREEDS involved to also join in to a united front by all the breeds affected. Which is what I would hope the GSD people would have done, which they obviously didn't. This may have well been because they didn't KNOW that other breeds were affected, but now that they do, I would hope that Dobes, Rotti's, Belgian clubs etc, would have their support.

Incorrect statement. The GSDCA President immediately contacted the other Clubs including the Rotti Club...... that is a fact and not a fancy thought. In fact the proposal for a united front came from the GSDCA President himself.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Tarmons

[Echo]

Why didn't the GSDCA intervene with the Victorian dangerous dog laws in regard to Schutzhund titles dogs given that they have the majority membership base who own titled dogs to prove they are not dangerous. The GSDCA was in the box seat to argue against the legislation and make a stand that a titled dog is no community threat???. All they did was work at providing an exemption for titled dogs to be shown without a muzzle and collar requirements in the show ring. In effect, they agreed with the government stance that titled dogs are dangerous which they know damn well is a blatent unthruth.

Not true.

This legislation concerns dogs in Victoria only, so it was dealt with by the GSDCV, not the GSDCA.

The GSDCV's original proposal to the DPI was to have Sch titled dogs made exempt from the entire requirements of the Dangerous Dog legislation. They asked for this, because they do not believe that Sch titled dogs are dangerous.

Unfortunately, the DPI would not recognise their request and would only grant them a partial exemption.

Thus we ended up with what we have now.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Echo

[Echo]

I wonder when everyone will stop bickering amongst themselves when at the end of the day they all have the same purpose. What is done, is done, and lets just move on to see how we can all come together to rectify this.

Well said wednesday.

This thread is turning into a GSDCA bashing episode.

We all need to get back on track and concentrate our efforts into something constructive, with regard to the original topic.

Sharpshep and others, have you actually done anything positive about letting those that matter know your feelings on this subject? Getting on forums and bitching to each other is not what we need to rectify this situation.

[wednesday]

The Rotti clubs were not aware of any of this as far as I know. The first the Rotti clubs were aware of any of this was the decision to remove the titles, and the first thing that people suggested was contacting the other BREEDS involved to also join in to a united front by all the breeds affected. Which is what I would hope the GSD people would have done, which they obviously didn't. This may have well been because they didn't KNOW that other breeds were affected, but now that they do, I would hope that Dobes, Rotti's, Belgian clubs etc, would have their support.

Incorrect statement. The GSDCA President immediately contacted the other Clubs including the Rotti Club...... that is a fact and not a fancy thought. In fact the proposal for a united front came from the GSDCA President himself.

I was the RCNSW secretary for a while, and after that - still a member, and I'm a member of a few discussion groups and it seems bazaar to me that none of it was brought up until someone heard that they were erasing titles?!?!

Can you please tell me which club the GSDCA president contacted so that I can bring this to the attention of that club and enquire why it wasn't divulged to the members (PM is fine).

[wednesday]

I wonder when everyone will stop bickering amongst themselves when at the end of the day they all have the same purpose. What is done, is done, and lets just move on to see how we can all come together to rectify this.

Well said wednesday.

This thread is turning into a GSDCA bashing episode.

That's exactly what I was trying to avoid. It's not about individual clubs, this affects many members of the ANKC, and it's no use trying to point fingers now, it will achieve nothing.

[Staranais]

But back on track - there are talks elswhere about having another controlling organisation that would recognise titles and aim to become FCI full member. Do any of you have any ideas and would be interested in helping getting it off the ground?

I would be more than happy to register my dog with an alternative FCI registered body rather than the AnKC if I travel to Aussie in the next few years. Seems to me that AnKC is not really interested in working dogs, so I don't need to give them my money.

However, there would be logistical issues, I think. Would the new body run obedience & tracking & agility trials as well as recognising pedigrees? Or would people need to register with AnKC and with the new body if they wished to compete in & earn titles in these other dogsports?

[DerRottweiler]

What a crock.

These dogs are working dogs, they ought to be able to do Sch work (including bitework) and do it well.

Not to mention, the less appealing registered breeders become, the ever more appealing do the BYBs become.

[Nekhbet]

I am assuming this rule goes further then schutzhund - to includ KNVP, belgian, french, mondio ring titles as well? My malinois has KVNP in her lines (with her grandfather achieving the met lof) - as do many mals - how will that affect them? I assume poorly as well.

Remember not all breeders are members of their breed club and not every breed affected by this has a strong club to represent its interests. Not every working breeder does a protection sport either, some go straight into work such as PP, military, police, etc so they are not necessarily in with the sport dog crowd.

The Belgian Malinois wouldnt, the dutch shepherd is still in its infancy here. Is the ANKC sending out a letter and providing an opportunity for all breeders to respond?

I am astounded that many working dog breeders and trainers were the LAST to know about this. Such earth shaking news should have been sent out as an official email/letter.

This is the KNVP (Royal Dutch Policedog Test)

PH1 (Politiehond 1) Police Dog 1. The PH 1 Examination consists of waterwork, obedience, scentwork, and protection.

PH2 (Politiehond 2) Police Dog 2. The PH 2 Examination

consists of the same four phases: waterwork, obedience, scentwork, and protection, but at a higher level than the PH 1.

ObjBW (Objectbewakinghond) Guard Dog Certification. The ObjBW examination was developed in response to the need for a certification of dogs used as security dogs, or for guarding of property. This test is similar to, but somewhat easier than, the PH1, without any waterwork.

SpH (Speurhond) Tracking Dog. The SpH Examination is intended as a certifier for dogs used for police tracking work. The difficult nature of the test results in a failure rate of about 80%. The test is nearly identical to the obedience and scentwork portions of the PH 1, with additional complex tracking exercises, including three article identification. (Selecting a metal article out of a group of five, corresponding to the scent from a metal key he is given.)

RH (Reddingshond) Search and Rescue Dog Certification. The RH is intended to certify dogs used primarily for search and rescue in situations wher the victims may be hidden under rubble or lost in wooded areas. The test consists of obedience and waterwork (similar to PH 1), Retrieval of a drowned person from the water, and Search work in rubble. An extra exercise is available for police dogs being used in Urban SAR applications, where a looter is identified, stopped, and transported

someone explain to me how something like this is 'useless' and 'uneccesary'. In fact we should be begging more dogs and trainers like these to come down here.

We are starving of decent quality animals in this country. Being so isolated we already have a barrier in sharing genetics and then the ANKC goes and slaps the face of breeders around the world with this crap. I would join a full FCI member association in a heartbeat.

[Tapferhund]

"I would join a full FCI member association in a heartbeat."

Me too. I think a lot would actually!

Interesting stuff the KNVP!!!!!

[DerRottweiler]

How about a German Working Dog Club.....or a European Working Dog Club. (Don't want to ignore the Dutch Shepherds and Mals lol).

Australia needs a strong shift away from soley show lines. Especially so for the GSD.

[Nekhbet]

not all working breeds are european remember that if you want to recognise working there is also search and rescue, hunting, coursing, retrieving, earthing, herding, tracking, etc

I think the concept should embrace the FCI philosophies that make a distinction between what they call 'beauty' tests and working tests and that a dog should achieve in both to be an all round balanced member of the breed.

[Staranais]

I am assuming this rule goes further then schutzhund - to includ KNVP, belgian, french, mondio ring titles as well? My malinois has KVNP in her lines (with her grandfather achieving the met lof) - as do many mals - how will that affect them? I assume poorly as well.

Mine does too, but the KNPV titles are not listed on her AnKC pedigree - I assumed the AnKC had already deleted KNPV titles from our pedigrees, or that they had never been on there?

And, if the breed clubs don't stop sniping at each other & start working together, I'd say the AnKC has already practically won.

[Tapferhund]

Mine does too, but the KNPV titles are not listed on her AnKC pedigree - I assumed the AnKC had already deleted KNPV titles from our pedigrees, or that they had never been on there?

And, if the breed clubs don't stop sniping at each other & start working together, I'd say the AnKC has already practically won.

Staranais, why don't you, while you are voicing your opinions on removing of schutzhund titles, ask the ANKC about KNPV and where that stands etc?

I agree with you about the sniping too.....but leave the GSD folk out of that as all we did was bring the ANKC directive to the attention of all ....and for our pains, once again, have been set on by the usual bashers from other breed clubs.

[Erny]

We are starving of decent quality animals in this country. Being so isolated we already have a barrier in sharing genetics and then the ANKC goes and slaps the face of breeders around the world with this crap. I would join a full FCI member association in a heartbeat.

I would join too - I may not have the 'breed' dog acceptable to the FCI to be an official active member, but if they'd allow, I'd be happy to join up so that my membership could add to the support.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Erny

[Staranais]

I don't plan to write to the AnKC - I'm not a member of the AnKC. I do plan to write to the FCI, when I get a minute, since I am a member of another FCI associated organisation & therefore feel I have the right to complain to the FCI.

I don't care what the history behind the sniping is, or which breed club is in the right. If the working breed clubs in Australia can't work together, I'd say you are all sunk. It is sad to see.

[Erny]

I wouldn't mind some answers or at least a glimmer of understanding regards the GSDCA's actions/attitude and why they carry whatever that attitude is, etc. Must admit it is sometimes easier to be able to discuss it with someone who knows rather than formally applying to the organisation itself for the answers. But when the answers won't, for whatever reason, be given even by those who supposedly "know", then address to the source direct is the only other option.

[Tapferhund]

If the working breed clubs in Australia can't work together, I'd say you are all sunk. It is sad to see.

Couldn't have said it better myself and I agree with you.

[Kavik]

To recap from what I can understand

Apparently GSD clubs are trying to do something about the situation, but nobody can say what for sure. Other breed clubs have only just heard about it from this thread, and posts on breed specific boards about it are not drawing discussion.

[Kavik]

kavik - yup GSD club is doing something.

For what we know they could be trying to get excemption

Only kidding !!!!

Hey man, don't look at me - they all think my GSD is funny looking and I am not a member of GSD club.

[MonElite]

LOL @ Kavik.

shadup - you have kelpies anyway and a funny looking GSD