Removal Of Titles Gained

[Tapferhund]

Apparenlty the CEO of Dogs NSW was not aware of this 'directive' !!!

Mmm interesting ! Well then...how can the 'ANKC' make a decision on this when the ANKC is 'a meeting' between delegates from each States controlling dog body? Each delegate makes up the ANKC.......so how can NSW not be aware ? How many other State CEO's are "not" aware????

We need to do something people.......so get writing and voice your concerns.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Tapferhund

[Staranais]

Apparenlty the CEO of Dogs NSW was not aware of this 'directive' !!!

Mmm interesting ! Well then...how can the 'ANKC' make a decision on this when the ANKC is 'a meeting' between delegates from each States controlling dog body? Each delegate makes up the ANKC.......so how can NSW not be aware ? How many other State CEO's are "not" aware????

We need to do something people.......so get writing and voice your concerns or disgust to the ANKC President and copy in all committee persons of your States controlling body.

Perhaps you guys need to complain directly to the FCI, not the ANKC? My thinking is, doesn't the ANKC represent the FCI in Australia - it is the only registry in Australia that belongs to the FCI? Yet the ANKC is discrediting what the FCI stands for, and not allowing dogs to have FCI approved titles on their pedigree.

So perhaps an outcry of Aussie breeders & working line owners going directly to the FCI would make an impact?

[TrinaJ]

That's a good suggestion - have mentioned it to a few people and see what they have to say.

Edited August 14, 2010 by TrinaJ

[Yesmaam]

Apparenlty the CEO of Dogs NSW was not aware of this 'directive' !!!

From the CE of Dogs VIC

As far as I am aware, the other state control bodies are yet to publish this information to their members; however I understand that it will be published to members of Dogs NSW in October.

Humm, so who is telling the truth here????

[ellz]

So very sad to hear this

Considering the work and dedication that goes Into these titles...... seems unfair to say the least

Just wondering if all other countries recognize and publish all titles gained in Aust, and do these titles appear on the dogs “new” pedigree papers when issued.

No, the AKC does not recognise titles granted outside the USA.

[ellz]

Apparenlty the CEO of Dogs NSW was not aware of this 'directive' !!!

Mmm interesting ! Well then...how can the 'ANKC' make a decision on this when the ANKC is 'a meeting' between delegates from each States controlling dog body? Each delegate makes up the ANKC.......so how can NSW not be aware ? How many other State CEO's are "not" aware????

We need to do something people.......so get writing and voice your concerns or disgust to the ANKC President and copy in all committee persons of your States controlling body.

Perhaps you guys need to complain directly to the FCI, not the ANKC? My thinking is, doesn't the ANKC represent the FCI in Australia - it is the only registry in Australia that belongs to the FCI? Yet the ANKC is discrediting what the FCI stands for, and not allowing dogs to have FCI approved titles on their pedigree.

So perhaps an outcry of Aussie breeders & working line owners going directly to the FCI would make an impact?

I don't think the ANKC is a "full" member of the FCI. I believe we are an associate member only.

[Staranais]

[quote name='Tapferhund' post='4740596' date='13th Aug 2010 - Perhaps you guys need to complain directly to the FCI, not the ANKC? My thinking is, doesn't the ANKC represent the FCI in Australia - it is the only registry in Australia that belongs to the FCI? Yet the ANKC is discrediting what the FCI stands for, and not allowing dogs to have FCI approved titles on their pedigree.

So perhaps an outcry of Aussie breeders & working line owners going directly to the FCI would make an impact?

I don't think the ANKC is a "full" member of the FCI. I believe we are an associate member only.

Oh really? Interesting. I didn't know that.

So does that mean that they don't need to comply with all the FCI policies?

Does it also mean that there can be more than one "associate member" within a country? I know every country can only have one full member registry. Perhaps working dog breeders need to leave the ANKC, and develop their own FCI associated registry.

[Yesmaam]

[quote name='Tapferhund' post='4740596' date='13th Aug 2010 - Perhaps you guys need to complain directly to the FCI, not the ANKC? My thinking is, doesn't the ANKC represent the FCI in Australia - it is the only registry in Australia that belongs to the FCI? Yet the ANKC is discrediting what the FCI stands for, and not allowing dogs to have FCI approved titles on their pedigree.

So perhaps an outcry of Aussie breeders & working line owners going directly to the FCI would make an impact?

I don't think the ANKC is a "full" member of the FCI. I believe we are an associate member only.

Oh really? Interesting. I didn't know that.

So does that mean that they don't need to comply with all the FCI policies?

Does it also mean that there can be more than one "associate member" within a country? I know every country can only have one full member registry. Perhaps working dog breeders need to leave the ANKC, and develop their own FCI associated registry.

What do we need the ANKC for anyway??? They are not interested in bettering working breeds, only fancy show dogs.

[Staranais]

I don't think the ANKC is a "full" member of the FCI. I believe we are an associate member only.

Oh really? Interesting. I didn't know that.

So does that mean that they don't need to comply with all the FCI policies?

Does it also mean that there can be more than one "associate member" within a country? I know every country can only have one full member registry. Perhaps working dog breeders need to leave the ANKC, and develop their own FCI associated registry.

What do we need the ANKC for anyway??? They are not interested in bettering working breeds, only fancy show dogs.

You don't, but you do need the FCI (IMO) if your pedigrees are to be legitimate, and the AnKC is currently the only FCI representative in Australia. I'd be happy to breed dogs under a non AnKC FCI registry, but would think twice about leaving the FCI entirely. JMO, but I bet many breeders would feel similar.

[Nekhbet]

FCI rules for members and associates

10.

The national canine organisations and their breed clubs may not make any alteration or

change any information about the dog already registered in a recognised studbook.

The original registration number and the initials of the studbook must appear on all

documents containing cynological information (working tests programmes, show

catalogues, pedigrees, registration forms) beside the new studbook registration

number.

c) Obligations of all members and contract partners

· to recognize all the FCI breeds (provisional or definitive)

· to respect the FCI breeds standards and breed nomenclature

· to expel the persons who breed and/or sell dogs with economic purposes

exclusively and/or who violate the code of breeding ethics as defined in Art.12 of

the standing orders.

meaning titles already on paper cannot be removed/altered as far as I see it. So you cant just change a Sch dog to a non Sch dog by changing all the original paperwork.

also

http://www.fci.be/circulaires/4-2010.pdf

[Nekhbet]

I say anyone with objections to this start writing letters to the FCI. The ANKC is not playing fair to breeders, especially of other breeds who also participate in schutzhund, ringsport etc. Time to stop the rot and self serving agendas.

[Staranais]

10.

The national canine organisations and their breed clubs may not make any alteration or

change any information about the dog already registered in a recognised studbook.

The original registration number and the initials of the studbook must appear on all

documents containing cynological information (working tests programmes, show

catalogues, pedigrees, registration forms) beside the new studbook registration

number.

Oh interesting! So sounds like the AnKC are doing the dirty, unless they've found a loophole, or persuaded the FCI to turn a blind eye...

[MonElite]

I got this from Alison Kollenberg - Schutzhund Australia.

Some usefull info where/who to write to.

STAND UP AND PROTEST! ANKC theft of working titles

DEAR CANINE FRIENDS

PLEASE WRITE TO THE AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL KENNEL CLUB http://www.ankc.org.au/Contact-Us.aspx TO PROTEST THEIR ROGUE ACTION INTENDED TO FALSIFY AUSTRALIAN PEDIGREES BY OMISSION. THE ANKC HAS ANNOUNCED (SEE BELOW) IT WILL NO LONGER BE RECORDING IPO / SCHUTZHUND TITLES, AS WELL AS THAT IT WILL BE REMOVING FROM AUSTRALIAN PEDIGREES LEGITIMATE IPO / SCHUTZHUND TITLES EARNED IN OFFICIALLY RECOGNISED FCI COMPETITIONS, WHICH BELONG TO THE DOGS THAT EARNED THEM AND AS SUCH ARE PART AND PARCEL OF OUR AUSTRALIAN PEDIGREES. ANKC HAS A FORMAL AGREEMENT WITH FCI THAT OBLIGES KENNEL ORGANIZATIONS TO RECOGNIZE EACH OTHERS TITLES, WHICH INCLUDES IPO / SCHUTZHUND / VPG TITLES. THE ANKC HAS NOT ENGAGED IN ANY PROPER CONSULTATION PROCESS AND THEIR ACTION ARE JEOPARDIZING THE INTERNATIONAL STANDING OF OUR AUSTRALIAN PEDIGREES BY THEIR STEPPING ONTO THIS VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE. RESIST THIS DEVALUATION OF OUR AUSTRALIAN DOGS AND THEIR PEDIGREES BY THIS BLATANT THEFT THEIR OFFICIAL WORKING TITLES!

1) WRITE TO THE FCI TO MAKE THEM AWARE OF THIS BREACH AND TO REGISTER YOUR PROTEST OF THIS DISSIDENT ACTION BY THE ANKCFédération Cynologique Internationale (FCI)General Secretariat of the FCI [/size]http://www.fci.be/

Place Albert 1er, B-6530 THUIN

BELGIUM

Tél : +32 71 59.12.38 Tel: +32 71 59.12.38

Fax : +32 71 59.22.29 Fax: +32 71 59.22.29

2) WRITE TO THE ANKC TO PROTEST. TAKE YOUR COMPLAINT FURTHER AND WRITE TO YOUR STATE KC BRANCH. WRITE TO DOGS VICTORIA.

3) WRITE TO INTERNATIONAL BREED ORGANISATIONS TO PROTEST AUSTRALIA REFUSING TO ACCEPT FCI IPO / SCHH TITLES ON DOGS IMPORTED TO AUSTRALIA, AS IS THEIR OBLIGATION TO FCI TO DO. Some suggestions below.Welt-union der Vereine fuer Deutsche Schaeferhunde(WUSV) e.V. Praesident: Wolfgang Henke Steinerne Furt 71

86167 Augsburg

Fax 0821 74002-9915

Telefon 0821 74002-15

Internet: www.wusv.de

E-Mail : [email protected]

Vereine fuer Deutsche Schaeferhunde (SV) e.V. Hauptgeschaeftstelle - http://www.schaeferhunde.de/

Administration FMBB (World Federation Belgian Shepherd Dogs) http://www.fmbb.net/contact.php Geert Bouckaert

Tempelierstraat 4

8470 Gistel

Belgium

Geschäftsstelle des ADRK Dr. Manfred Herrmann32429 Minden

Südring 18 GermanyTelefon0049-571-504040Telefax0049-571-5040444Email[email protected]

4) WRITE TO THE EMAIL FORUMS TO TELL OTHERS TO GET ACTIVE.

The Dogzonline forum already has a thread going - join the forum and register a public protest. http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=202587 STOP THIS PIRACY OF OUR REGISTRY!

Some Background behind this ruling: The decision to remove all IPO / SchH titles from the ANKC has been made without discussion with the breed clubs concerned or taking into consideration the rights of the owners of pedigreed working dogs in this country, where IPO / Schutzhund titles are a part of the dog's official history as well as enhancing the value of those animals.

The ANKC is acting like a rogue institution, riding rough shod over our right to have accurate pedigrees and ignoring it's pact of mutual obligation it has with FCI. Namely to recognise each others pedigrees and titles, which includes IPO (Schutzhund / VPG) titles earned at legitimate trials in all FCI countries holding these trials. There can be little doubt this high handed, scandalous action by the ANKC has come about due to pressure applied by the German Shepherd Dog Council of Australia, which has engaged itself in pursuing their rabid anti-Schutzhund / IPO agenda via a variety of agencies and forums over many years. (Much to the detriment of their own breed as well as to the wider working dog population per se.) Thanks to A small group of self serving "fundamentalists" within the hierarchy of the German Shepherd Dog fraternity, every other working dog breed has had the pay the price of having a highly valuable breed test and DOG sport ignorantly demonised as being "attack training" and actively discriminated against by all manner of unfair machinations and deceits on the part of the GSDCA hierarchy. Now they add insult to injury by forcing us all to put up their minority self interests first, dictating we must accept having legitimately earned FCI titles in our dog's pedigrees simply wiped out by a keystroke - as if those dogs had never passed those trials and those official titles had never existed! WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? WHO EXACTLY IS RUNNING THE KENNEL CLUB IN THIS COUNTRY? AND FOR WHOSE BENEFIT? I can answer in part the latter - it is for the political benefit of the GSDCA. The GSDCA have moved heaven and earth to destroy the sport of Schutzhund / IPO in this country, merely in order to claim immunity from the World Union of German Shepherd Dogs Charter that requires all their member organizations to support the sport and encourage members to participate. Effectively, the GSDCA hierarchy fear that by having Schutzhund training available to their members in Australia, the WUSV (World Union of GSDs) will also require their Organization to include a SV/WUSV (Schutzhund based) character test in Australian breed surveys as well as a requirment for all adult dogs rated Excellent at their Main Breed Show. Instead of the GSDCA resigning from WUSV because they cleaarly don't wish to follow the terms of the WUSV Charter, they instead set out to misuse their authority and position within ANKC and other bureaucracies to trash the sport in this country, generating collateral damage for everyone else involved while about it. GSDCV has moles working inside Dogs Victoria and within the Victorian (DPI) Department of Primary Industries. They are to blame for the instigation of legislation in Victoria that effectively criminalizes ordinary dog owners who unfortunately get caught "hetzing" their dog with an object in their hand (i.e.: this includes tennis balls).

Unfortunately, the uniquely worded DPI legislation, that was intended to disable participation in Schutzhund / IPO (an internationally accredited and recognised dogsport) in Victoria, has now blown out to encompass just anyone in that state training a dog using manually held motivational tools. Ludicrous though it sounds, the ANKC assault on the integrity of our Australian pedigrees has come about merely because of the short sighted, self serving agenda of a group of influential fanatics within the GSDCA hierarchy. In their enthusiasm to target IPO / Schutzhund for destruction they've not only impinged on the right of other people to enjoy their chosen international dogsport without fear or favour, but in the process they've managed to shoot themselves in the foot - caught up in the web of their own lies when the Victorian legislation was expanded to place restrictions on all Schutzhund titled imports into that state, including the Schutzhund-titled imports of high profile German Shepherd Dog officials and breeders in that state. The comedy of errors that followed had the GSDCV forced to open secret negotiations with the Victorian DPI to request a special exemption for their own Schutzhund titled GSD show imports. These negotiations were successful for their own breed, but they didn't waste time worrying about leaving all the other working breeds out in the cold. Mean spirited people tend to reap what they sow, and despite a secretly negotiated exemption for their own dogs, Schutzhund / IPO imports in Victoria still need be muzzled when in public - not a good look for the Victorian show rings. After this blow back, the GSDCA are in further damage control. Becauase lo and Behold, now the ANKC is riding to their rescue, to pull the GSDCV's dirty irons out of the fire! Without any prior consultation with those being affected, and by a stroke of the pen, the ANKC are now blithely informing us all they intend to remove all IPO / Schutzhund titles from the pedigrees of ALL the working breeds in the country! What they don't say is we are all being expected to pay for the consequences of the GSDCA's despicable, unsporting behaviour by plotting against the sport in this country. Because of their troublemaking we all now are expected to wear having incomplete and inaccurate pedigree records! Just to accommodate the difficulties the Victorian GSDC got themselves into. As without any official IPO / Schutzhund titles recorded on Australian pedigrees, the GSDCV owners can now pretend their Schutzhund-titled imports haven't really got these titles at all! Thus shiftily avoid their responsibility to the breed and to the muzzle regulation in Victoria, part of a discrimatory law they'd worked hard to get up in that state in the hope of inflicting mortal damage upon rival working dog organizations which are providing access to the sport to Australian trainers.

Don't be bullied into giving away your entitlements. Get up and speak out for accurate pedigrees![/size]

Edited August 16, 2010 by MonElite

[Ceilidh]

Just wondering if all other countries recognize and publish all titles gained in Aust, and do these titles appear on the dogs “new” pedigree papers when issued.

I do know that if an Aust Champion goes to USA they lose their title.

[TrinaJ]

Thanks MonElite, have passed that info on to a Yahoo Group of ROttweiler Breeders as we are discussing this violation by the ANKC.

[Staranais]

Just wondering if all other countries recognize and publish all titles gained in Aust, and do these titles appear on the dogs “new” pedigree papers when issued.

I do know that if an Aust Champion goes to USA they lose their title.

Do all the ancestors in the pedigree lose the title too? That seems wrong to me also.

[TrinaJ]

Yes!!! Not only are they taking away current dogs, but anything that is on the Pedigree, therefore they are trying to take away the History of of our dogs!!

The ANKC are just burying their heads in the sand, what do they think that they can just remove the title then it must not have existed its BS

[TrinaJ]

MonElite,

(This was posted on the list from Dawn Ayton after I posted your comments from Allison).

Allison is an Australian Lady who now spend half her time in Aus and the other half in Germany, where she is a registered Schutzhund Judge.

Allison and Jens have bred Dobermanns (20 to 30 years ago), Malonios and GSDogs. They are very active in the dog sport and breeding communities in both countries.

Allison's career was in advertising and Journalism, so any article she writes is always well thought out and articulate.

I'm surprised that as she is currently residing o/s, she hasn't told us of any or what action she is taking locally.

MonElite, do you know, or can you find out, if Allison has instigated any action here locally? Thanks Trina

[bones]

It is of interest that under the exemption in Victoria the dogs are only exempt from the identification and restraint/muzzling requirements when they are competing in an event sanctioned by Dogs Victoria - therefore they are still required by law to be identified as a dangerous dog, wear a muzzle, and be restrained by a lead of some sort whenever they are out and about for a walk, at the beach, down at the park, or training for a show!!!!

Do they really think that removing the Sch. title from the dog is going to get them out of this one - I think not. Are they going to deny that their dog received a Breed Survey classification in Germany now as well? Because a prerequisite for Breed Survey in Germany is the attainment of a Sch/IPO title.

Instead of the well off and influential few going out of their way to save their own backsides by getting themselves exemptions and changing ANKC policy, how about getting an education on the virtues of your own breed, look at what the GSD was developed for, read what their founder asked of all of us "to keep the German Shepherd Dog a working dog", look at the internationally (other than Australia) recognized temperament test that is Sch. and allow yourself to become informed on what Sch really is - don't bury your head in the sand and claim it to be "attack training", and stop getting in the way of those who choose to participate in the sport - they don't get in the way of you showing your dogs.

[Yesmaam]

It is of interest that under the exemption in Victoria the dogs are only exempt from the identification and restraint/muzzling requirements when they are competing in an event sanctioned by Dogs Victoria - therefore they are still required by law to be identified as a dangerous dog, wear a muzzle, and be restrained by a lead of some sort whenever they are out and about for a walk, at the beach, down at the park, or training for a show!!!!

Do they really think that removing the Sch. title from the dog is going to get them out of this one - I think not. Are they going to deny that their dog received a Breed Survey classification in Germany now as well? Because a prerequisite for Breed Survey in Germany is the attainment of a Sch/IPO title.

There is also a bite work component to the breed survey test itself so even if they tried to say their dogs are not SchH trained the breed survey puts them in the same boat anyway.

34A Dangerous dogs

A dog is a dangerous dog if—

(a) the dog is kept as a guard dog for the

purpose of guarding non-residential

premises; or

(b) the dog has been trained to attack or bite any

person or any thing when attached to or worn

by a person.

S. 34A

inserted by

No. 87/2000

s. 16.

How many victorian imported dogs with working titles have actually been declared as dangerous, does anyone know of any?

If the owner of such a dog fails to notify their council it is an offence.

37 Notification of Council

(1) Immediately upon becoming the owner of a dog

that has been trained to attack or bite any person

or any thing when attached to or worn by a

person, the owner of the dog must so notify the

Council of the municipal district in which the dog

is kept.

S. 37(1)

substituted by

No. 87/2000

s. 18.