Removal Of Titles Gained

[TrinaJ]

On the dogs Victoria website...

Schutzhund

The ANKC has issued a directive that Schutzhund titles obtained in other countries by dogs imported into Australia will not be added to the ANKC database at the time of reregistration. Schutzhund titles such as SCH & IPO previously added to the ANKC database will be removed. SCH, IPO & other similar titles are a form of attack training and the ANKC does not recognise these titles or discipline. :

Edited August 18, 2010 by TrinaJ

[Aussienot]

Wow, that sucks. I'm glad Cody's pedigree is already issued. Really shortsighted in my opinion.

[TrinaJ]

Wow, that sucks. I'm glad Cody's pedigree is already issued. Really shortsighted in my opinion.

Think you missed this part of the post...

Schutzhund titles such as SCH & IPO previously added to the ANKC database will be removed

[WreckitWhippet]

The ANKC does not recognise it, so why should it be on a pedigree

[TrinaJ]

The ANKC recognised these tiles for years, now all of a sudden decide, without any discussions with Clubs decide to remove them....that is wrong.

[GeckoTree]

I thought there were like 4-5 different levels in it, and it was mainly about obediance training and tracking with bite work being the higest level in the obediece training? It must just be the name they dont like? It seems like a good dog sport for the right dogs. So only Aussie titles are allowed now?

Edited August 10, 2010 by GeckoTree

[Starkehre]

I'm with you Trina. IMO once titles are gained, provided they were previously recognised by ANKC, they should remain.

They did this to HIT also.

I can be hard enough accepting new rules and outlawing of certain disciplines to compete in, let alone actually having previously gained titles that were recognised, stripped away from your dog.

very disappointing.

[TrinaJ]

Those who currently have these titles have word bloody hard to gain them. I feel sorry for them, its unjust.

The ANCK can and will do what they like, FFS they even refuse to provide the FCI Breed Standard for the Rottweiler in its entirity. We had to push to get them to include the extended breed standard and even then they still insist on on ADDING to the FCI standard a description of a docked tail, so our Breed Standard is not authentic!

[oakway]

It is not a recognised title in Australian by the controlling bodies.

You may forget that some unscrupulous people sell puppies by these titles.

Do you really want to see that ?. I don't.

[Nekhbet]

Thats very handy considering they want to get around the DD laws with their import german shepherds - no Sch/IPO no proof of bitework on australian paperwork. What an absolute crock. Faith in the ANKC dropping.

[MolassesLass]

It's not really that they've "removed" the titles from the dog - the dog is still titled - it's just not printed on the ANKC pedigree document. Same as canine disc or ADAA agility titles aren't on the pedigree.

[rotts4ever]

The ANKC does not recognise it, so why should it be on a pedigree

The ANKC has no right to change a pedigree from an imported dog. If these titles are on an imports registration papers and are titles that are recongnised by the country the dog resides/being imported from then the registration papers should remain the same as the originals and any litter registrations should reflect the exact pedigree of the Sire and Dam.

The exact Pedigree includes titles gained by the Sire and Dam.

Also didn't the ANKC rejoin the FCI and as part of this they abide by their rules. These titles are reconised by the FCI, ADRK etc. so I wonder what the fall out of this will be.

As mentioned about the breed standard being added too this too is unacceptable. One day it maybe impossible to get an FCI,ADRK Specialist judge to come to our country and then you might as well say we will only be showing at all breeds shows. In our breed our specialties are very important to us and competitive and I don't think for one minute that some of these seemingly unrelated decisions wont affect this aspect of our breed. We chose to follow the country of origin Standard not a doctored version. Any additions could be added to the Extended Breed Standard while leaving the Breed standard in it's true form.

Also as has been mentioned some of these titles are, in my understanding, obedience related and don't even relate to any form of bite work unless the highest level has been achieved. By the time the dog has reach this level it would make most of our obedience champs look like beginners. I could be wrong, this is just my understanding.

In regards to people selling puppies off these titles lets face it even if titles aren't recongised here they will just state the dogs have the titles anyway from overseas and will still use it as a selling tool. There are clubs out there for breeds that aren't recongnised by the ANKC and I don't think the fact that they aren't recongnised affects their puppy sales.

I'm not arguing for or againt Dog Sports/Titles etc but am more worried how these things get passed when it seems that the correct procedures,meetings etc might not have taken place. How is it that breed clubs that are affected by these changes don't know about them until after the fact.

There are so many things to consider, too many to add to a post, but a lot of things put in place do have a knock on effect to other issue relating to our breeds. I also think there is a lack of understanding as to what some titles actually are but someone more experienced in these disciplines could explain this better.

Cheers Lee

[Nekhbet]

eh? All Sch titles have a bitework component except the preliminary BH test. Hence why ANKC wants to strip all Sch titles off dogs, even Sch1 proves it has done some bitework. Dont have it on paper, cant prove anything to my council ranger who wants you to obide by Victorian law for your new expensive import.

[rotts4ever]

eh? All Sch titles have a bitework component except the preliminary BH test. Hence why ANKC wants to strip all Sch titles off dogs, even Sch1 proves it has done some bitework. Dont have it on paper, cant prove anything to my council ranger who wants you to obide by Victorian law for your new expensive import.

Like I said someone who knows more about the disciplines of the titles than me. I was under the impression that they would also take BH off. But I am still concerned about the other opinions, questions I have as stated in my post. Did everything go through the correct procedures or is this just another change put through without the backing of the members? The first I heard of it was someone posting today on another forum but then again I am a mushroom at times.

Cheers

[Nekhbet]

It probably was backed by members, especially the german shepherd people who went through a lot of hoo ha to get the Shutzhund titled imports from Germany (who all need to pass Sch in order to breed) exempt from the dangerous dog legislation (ie need to be desexed etc) to protect their investment. Under the SV system in germany all dogs need to pass a shutzhund test and in order to get new blood in they HAVE to import a schutzhund titled dog. Doing this will mean there is no proof on paper the dog has done bitework. They probably wont remove the BH as it is a companion dog test that proves the dog is stable in temperament. I do think its bullshit though as yes, many people who want to purchase working dogs want to see what the sire and dam has achieved. Now we wont have proof of that on paper. In fact ... backfire ... without proof people can now claim whatever the hell they want with their breeding stock. Frankly I would be very angry if I was a breeder of working line dogs especially having spent a lot of money on imports - now they want to remove proof of workability. I can see the ANKC is not for working breeders at all. Dissapointing considering I was going to fork out for a kennel name etc to become a reg breeder

And also true, how can the ANKC decide what they will and wont accept being members of the FCI?

[TrinaJ]

eh? All Sch titles have a bitework component except the preliminary BH test. Hence why ANKC wants to strip all Sch titles off dogs, even Sch1 proves it has done some bitework. Dont have it on paper, cant prove anything to my council ranger who wants you to obide by Victorian law for your new expensive import.

Good points Nek, I was talking to my 2's breeder this morning and said to her 'is this their way of getting around the DD laws in Victoria, what a load of BS.

Its wrong to take away titles. Yes we dont get those titles here but they should not be removed from an imports title. I personally dont do schutzhund but regardless of the fact they should NOT be allowed to mess with the Pedigree of a dog

[Aidan]

I'm not sure how this would help get around DD laws? The title still exists, the dog was still trained in bitework, it just isn't shown on ANKC pedigrees. If anything it might potentially expose the ANKC to greater liability for failing to disclose known information about the dog's training, should a titled dog change hands and the new owner was unaware of previous training. Although this is probably not likely either.

I'm guessing there are other motivations far less pragmatic than has been suggested.

[Steve]

How sad.

[Staranais]

How very sad. This shows how little the AnKC values working dogs & working dog breeders.

These aren't just "fun" titles like doggy dancing or dock diving or whatever, these working titles are at the very heart of what makes these breeds what they are. Removing them from pedigrees makes it harder for people interested in working dogs to research what type of dogs they are buying or breeding. And makes it easier for people to claim their dogs are titled when they aren't.

I wonder if fewer working line kennels will bother to register their dogs with the AnKC now?

Edited August 11, 2010 by Staranais

[Flaves]

We have had this argument before. On DOL

It is wrong that the titles wont be recognised on ANKC paperwork.

It does not stop you from advertising the titles, nor does it stop breeders showing the original paperwork proving these titles

I agree it is not fair nor right.

And this is not just Victoria, this is Australia wide according to the first post.