Persistent Dogs

[raineth]

This is really good for me to read actually! As I have only had Delta for about 3 months, so I haven't figured it all out yet.

What I find interesting is that nothing happening is not enough for him to put that behaviour in the "don't bother" basket. He will try it again and again. It will take several quite punishing consequences in a short space of time to convince him to stop, and even then, it will come back again if he hasn't tried it for a while.

that bit cracks me up :D

I have taught Digby to close door and everytime she will stand in the doorway and he will close the door and it will hit her, but it never stops her from standing there she is too interested in watching him close the door.

Also she knows my daughter's bedroom is full of teddies, and so every so often during the day she will hit the door with her snout very hard - just in case it will open. THe door has a problem with the jam, so if you hit it hard enough in a certain spot it will just open. But often I lock it so that it can't open without the handle being turned. But she will hit it very hard, its hard to believe it wouldn't hurt!

[Zug Zug]

Yes I have a very persistent dog at home (Zamba). I remember watching her in her younger days pacing up and down our fenceline looking for a weak spot. She always seemed to find one (or create one). She was a tough gig back then.

She is smart and driven and very energetic - a wicked combination if ever there was one!

How does it affect our training? It means that so long as I have her motivated, she will drive her training forward with absolute focus and determination. I need to be very sharp and specific about what I am rewarding.

Example: I tried teaching her to hide her face under her paw a few months back. It sort of worked - except she was swatting her face with her paw and wouldn't hold the paw still over her nose, which is what I was wanting. If I withheld the reward (waiting for her to slow the paw down rather than just smacking herself) she just went into lots and lots of repeated face smackings.

You'd think that was an extinction burst, but...

Months later, she's still doing it. It drives me crazy. I haven't rewarded it for months. But she KNOWS this is something I should reward, and she just keeps on doing it. Finally, very recently, it's started to happen less. But still happens. I only rewarded it for 2 short sessions a LONG time ago, but she has been fixated on it.

So the lesson is this: my training must be precise, because she will go into it with gusto and give her her all every time and if I teach a bad habit she'll probably keep it. But it also makes things easier in the sense that if I get it right, she'll stick with that too.

[corvus]

Also she knows my daughter's bedroom is full of teddies, and so every so often during the day she will hit the door with her snout very hard - just in case it will open. THe door has a problem with the jam, so if you hit it hard enough in a certain spot it will just open. But often I lock it so that it can't open without the handle being turned. But she will hit it very hard, its hard to believe it wouldn't hurt!

Ah yes, Erik does that with the spare room. :D It doesn't latch, so he will regularly go and jump on it or shove it with his nose to see if he can make it open. He learnt this when I had baby magpies in there we were raising. I tried putting a folding chair against the door so it would fall down and make a noise if he pushed the door open. It kept him away for a while, but before too long he discovered he could trigger the "booby trap", run away, and then come back and step over the chair and open the door. I had to shut the door and pull a heavy suitcase in behind it. I'm glad he's a small dog! I ended up taking the magpies out of that room because I could see he was going to try to solve this suitcase problem as well and knowing him he would succeed sooner or later. There is nothing in that room anymore and hasn't been for ages. He still gets the door open quite regularly just to have a look.

That sounds like a pretty persistent dog, Zug Zug. :D It's interesting, Kivi takes a while to learn things, but when he does he's very reliable as long as you keep rewarding it. If I stop rewarding a behaviour it drops out very quickly. Sometimes it only takes about 3 weeks. Erik does forget things if I don't reward them for ages, but I don't have to take the same care with him to practice something just to maintain it. I haven't had any problems with Erik getting stuck on a behaviour before I'm finished shaping it, but he does learn things I don't want him to if I'm not careful. I learnt to be extremely careful about what I reward and how often. If I didn't want him to get it locked in his head that when I do x he gets y, I had to carefully mix it up so I didn't let that consequence occur a few times in a row. I'm still finding this one sneaks up on me sometimes. I have to be quite aware of what he finds rewarding and what he might associate with that. If I do something the same way a few times in a row he tends to think that's the way it will always go.

[raineth]

so as I was going about today I was reminded of things that Delta does that is related to this topic.

Delta learned that when I get in the shower before bed, then that is a great opportunity!

For a while I was putting her outside so she could chew on a bone while I was in the shower. But then it just got too cold - she was shivering out there even with her coat on, so i let her in.

so her latest thing to do is go and be a bucking bronco on our bed!

prior to the shower:

Delta will be laying innocently on her bed in the lounge room

By the time I get out of the shower:

My bed is in complete disarray. Sheets are torn, the dooner is in a mound in the middle, the fitted sheet is half off...

Delta is laying innocently on her bed in the lounge room

Mr Raineth caught her in the act the night before and he is now under strict instruction to keep her on her bed in the loungeroom when I'm having a shower!

she is way too sneaky and clever!

and its my fault for not giving her an alternative behaviour

Because Delta is very excitable, I have adopted the approach that she has to lay quietly on her bed while she is waiting for something exciting to happen. (so she waits on her bed while I prepare food, she waits on her bed while I get leads ready for a walk, she waits on her bed while I get things ready for training etc.) This is all working very well thankfully. Also I am hoping that going to her bed might become a default behaviour for her.

But yeah with her curious, persistant, reward oriented nature, I find I have to be much more organised, thinking what will i tell her to do, rather than waiting for her to do something (which will usually be something I don't want )