Please Help

[jackie_a1]

I was quite insulted by the insinuation I did not do any research prior to owning both breeds and that I was some sort of idiot because of the way I was handling the situation. There is a diverse range of opinions as to what YOU would have done or what SHOULD have been done. But none of those happened I handled the situation as I saw fit obviously I am seeking advice because of my concern.

I am extremely happy to say there has not been any incidents since last night but they are still being supervised. Tomorrow will be supervised outside play so it wasn't a case of them just behaving inside. I feel a combination of the professional advice and desexing him will help to ensure the situation will not worsen. I'm glad it was as simple as bathing Boss and not euthanasia as a few of you suggested. Thanks to those who said it might be the smell I thought it may have been part of it but not the cause.

Oh and quick edit to say one post asked how many fights Razor has won? Zero. He has never fought with another dog other than Lucky and because Lucky was larger, and more experienced Razor never won a fight although I never let them fight it out I always intervened. I would never let any of my dogs fight it out ever. UNLESS breaking it up would cause a human harm then unfortunately I would. But I've never been in that situation with my own dogs. I always have just grabbed the hose.

Edited August 10, 2010 by jackie_a1

[BMAK]

being two head strong males they are bound to fight for dominance and pack leader.

My dogs have had a few tiffs nothing serious mind you mostly over bones lasted 5 seconds this was my younger male trying to be dominant and testing my older female. he trys to hump her and my girl will put him in his place by snap towards him. when dogs dont like being told (by others) what to do they will protest - growling biting and fighting can be part of this DA HA can be part of it when they get away with the certain behaviour they perform any how back to where i was haha

thoughts****

*maybe you arnt being a pack leader so razor may be feeling he has to take up that role between boss?

*is there any factors that can lead you to why he did it on that particular day your smell, behaviour, reaction when he got hme from the vets or boss'

*how many times has razor done this behaviour to other dogs that he has known?

dogs live in the present they have a fight they move on they establish there pack and when the role of top dog isnt being forfilled one will step up not always wanting to be leader but its what the pack needs.

are you able to controll both dogs when they are taken for walks, if so walk them together but make sure they are beside or behind and not in front so they know who the pack leader is .. do some research into the "dog whisperer" with cesar.m

[Greytmate]

No denying Razor has dominance issues. I know this. In saying this to clear this up. When I say Razor is dominant is that he does not hump or growl or ever behave like that with other dogs. I mean when he greets dogs he is dominant. High tail flag, hackles up, ears pricked forward and very alert. He walks over to the dog all the above signs sniffs them and that is it. That is what I mean he is dominant I have never met a dog question this. As in I have never met a dog bite him or growl etc. Once they greet he is happy as long as the dog isn't overly excitable barking at him snapping at him. Razor has never displayed any aggressive behaviour to ANY dog OTHER than Lucky (my deceased dog) his litter mate and now Boss (who also lives with him.) He has met another entire male dog (another dolers german shepard) and they walked and interact together fine off and on leash.

I will leave the professional opinion to the behaviourist but I do realise he has aggression issues by no means am I in denial.

Ideally if you saw your dog go into this posture you would act immediately to stop the behaviour, divert the gaze and relax the dog.

Allowing your dog to do this is unpleasant for other dogs at best, and extremely dangerous at worst.

[Akayla]

I think its also important to consider Razor's history with a previous dog- what was the outcome of those fights? Does Razor have history of winning fights? Genuine question. The most serious dog aggression i have ever seen was with dogs who had many opportunities to practice the behaviour, actually engaging in fights.

Do be careful.

My first thoughts were also in regards to the previous dog. To explain I have a bitch who acted dominant and that is what i thought she was and progressing. Then one day someone said to me she is anxious. Now I do think she has dominant tendancies but when she is agrressive it is most likely to be in relation to a dog fight a while ago. Your dominant male may be feeling anxious about the newer pups rising place. Pups kind of live outside this but at his age he is sexually maturing now and his behaviour will change (although hopefully through desexing not quite so much). This may make your dominant dog feel insecure of their place.

Looking at it that way has helped me understand my bitch better - not aggression exactly but anxiety.

Oh and if your male was what some refer to as a "true" alpha he would not fight a young dog like that for dominance because he would be very confident. The fact that his hackles rise when confronting a new dog says he is unsure to start with. An alpha would not do this without cause form the other dog.

It really does sound to me as though your dog is anxious about his postion and well being. Given the history with the other dog I find it highly likely.

HOWEVER If you see a good behaviourist, at the least a behavioural trainer (not just a regular trainer) they should be able to see this. I also think K9 pro is great

I hope this little insight is helpful and like me helps you to better understand where he might be coming from. We tend to just be angry with aggressive behaviour but if you see it as insecurity and train against that you may make a great deal of progress.

[jackie_a1]

Hey guys thanks!

Also Catherine I have done alot of research into Ceaser's methods I did an assignment on him I know some people don't support his methods but I think he is good and do.

Razor on walks is great. He is walked with a check chain but does not pull. Always is allowed free run off leash and UNLESS there is a dog off leash his recall is great. With me and my family he is always obedient.

I think you're right shadow that he is anxious. Though I wish I had a video of him to explain his behaviour when greeting dogs. I bring him to tafe social days all the time and he is relaxed let me explain. Razor with undesexed male dogs will raise his hackles etc. Razor with undesexed females (he has never been allowed free run with any entire female obviously). With the desexed dogs he meets. He raises his hackles high tail flag sniffs the dog then goes about his business. I do not feel the need to avert his gaze at at all. There is no aggression he meets every dog the same. However when it is a male (undesexed) he does show the POTENTIAL for aggression. He meets EVERY dog with the high tail flag, confidence and hackles. His hackles do not mean he is being aggressive necessarily it means he is excited or stimulated.

I'll see if I have a picture of him meeting another dog as an example of his posture.

Appreciate the constructive advice.