Should Aggressive Dogs Be Taken To Offleash Parks?

[Dame Aussie]

As a general rule, I'd say aggressive dogs have no place in an offleash park.

But it also depends on the size & layout of the park. It depends on how aggressive the "aggressive" dog is. And it also depends how obedient the DA dog is.

In my experience, aggression issues at dog parks tend to be with people who don't understand (or don't want to believe) that their dog is aggressive or rude, not so much with the people who accept their dog is DA and take appropriate precautions.

So true Staranais, "Oh he's fine" muttered whilst said dog proceeds to try and eat one of mine

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

No, absolutely not. DA dogs should be kept muzzled and on the lead in the street only. Yes, I'm very strict on this.

Dog parks are not safe, I don't go but not only should DA and HA aggressive dogs NOT be taken to them, nor should puppies or dogs that have an issue with dogs of a certain breed/colour/sex.

Timid dogs should not be taken in either, it doesn't help them "toughen up", it gets them attacked.

Toddlers should not be taken into a dog park either.

Don't mix the sizes, it's dangerous.

I've actually written a whole article full of advice on how to use dog parks if appropriate. Dogs are always getting killed or injured in local dogs parks here.

[Cosmolo]

I think it is very misleading to say "aggressive dogs shouldn't go". Who gets to define aggression? What threshold to aggression is acceptable? Should a dog tolerate being ran at by another? What about being jumped on if the dog is 'friendly'? Should dogs that go to dog parks have to tolerate being mounted? Your going to eliminate most of the dog population if you say dogs that go to dog parks should like EVERY dog.

I have a dog here who will very appropriately tell other dogs off for being rude. Many people though- would think she was aggressive if they watched her do this.

What about dogs with a low tolerance for other dogs who are exercised off lead, with a reliable recall and owner leaves when other dogs arrive? Is that not okay because of the what if the dog doesn't recall/ dog gets surprised? There are lots of what ifs that people don't think about- what ifs that relate to dogs being dogs, not doing anything terribly wrong.

As someone else said- issues often occur with people not understanding their dog has an issue, not often with those who do. Aggressive dogs have as much right as anyone else to be RESPONSIBLY exercised.

Dogs are not robots.

[rastus_froggy]

I went to a leash free park yesterday (with my dog on lead), usually I will not go to this park as it is notorious for incidents, but a friend who takes their dog there regularly and invited me out, so I went.

While there I met a whippett who had been attacked there some weeks before, it required surgery that cost over $600 (I don't know if he paid it or the owner of the attacking dog) and yet he still returns to the park with this dog

I also met a large cross breed who had recently (at the same park) "accidently" grabbed a small dog (supposedly thinking it was a ball) and started shaking it violently, don't know what happened in the end to the other dog. But this large dog was off lead at the park while I was there! People were throwing balls and there were little dogs everywhere, this dog did not have a decent recall and the owner really was not that phased about what had previously occurred!

So to me NO everyone just stay away from these leash free hell holes dog parks.

[Guest belgian.blue]

I just don't let my dogs off lead these days. They have a backyard to run around in.

Makes me dog walking more relaxed if both my dogs are on lead, safe and sound.

Don't think I've been to an off lead park since Ivy caught canine cough.

[tarope]

No, but you can't tell some people as they have no brains in the first place. Both my GSD's don't like other dogs but my Rottie is OK. Even if all mine were OK, it's not mine I'm worried about and IMO off lead parks are an accident waiting to happen.

[lanabanana]

I have a dog who can be LA. Usually meeting other dogs off lead at home he is fine and in fact a bit sooky.

However, I do not and owuld not take him to an off leash dog park. Not because I am concerned that he might attack someone as when he is offlead I think the chance is pretty much non existent (he would definitely fight back though) but because his recall is terrible and if something did happen, he gets a case of the major deaf ears.

He has had one fight at the beach once. I had my two dogs down there onlead as it was quite busy with dogs (my other dog was fine with other dogs even on lead) and I didn't want any dramas. Anyway, we had stopped and were watching the sunset when a lady came down off the street with her 3 dogs off lead. The started runnign round us, which was causing my LA dog to get wound up. The lady said, you can let him off the lead. I said, hes got all worked up so I am not sure. Anyway she insisted so I let him off. He met and sniffed two of her dogs, lots of waggy tails and moving on. Then the third dog came over, he looked like a big black retriver (gorgeous) and they had a sniff...and then her dog attacked my LA dog. Naturally he fought back. Anyway, the fight was broken up very quickly. He generally stops any shenanagans from a harsh word from mum or dad so I told him to stop and he started backing off - the woman actually bashed him on the head with her stupid plastic retractable lead case (I dont know why she even had it, she wasnt using it) which caused me to give her a bit of a abuse. She then proceeded toblame me for the whole thing. Luckily, another woman came alone with her dog and starte din at the lady as apparently the lady makes a habit of allowing her dogs to wind up other dogs and start fights.

Anyway, that was the last time that dog went anywhere offlead where we might run into another dog. When we go walking I sometimes let him have a very quick blat at the park across the road to get out some excess energy but he is always put back on very quickly in case another dog shows up.

Unfortunately, it appears our wee dog has the same issue. When on lead if she sees another dog she becomes very aggressive (its kinda funny coz she is so small - but its not funny IYKWIM) and in fact attacked a large dog the other day. I was actually carrying her ready to cross a busy road and th eother dog actually jumped up onto me to sniff her so she bit his face....really the other dog owners fault IMO as he shouldnt have been jumping on me. Anyway, I digress, she has the same problem and they are not walked together so it is not a leartn behaviour. She went to puppy preschool too and off lead is actually scared of other dogs until she knows them.

I thought maybe it was me, but our two previous dogs were both very dog friendly so it must just be the two I have chosen lol

Anyway, the point was I will take neither to an offlead area, or even to an area where I think there will be a lot of other dogs (well I take the same one coz if she starts getting all agro I can just remove her quite easily).

Someone mentioned the vets, My boy has only been once here so far, but I made my appointment the last of the day and then rang from outside to make sure no dogs were about.

He did stay in a kennel before he came here though and they said he was fine with other dogs....it is most likely just the lead thing though as he has met and does like other dogs.

*waffle waffle waffle*

[Zug Zug]

I have a DA dog. We don't go to dog parks because it is just too much for her.

Even on lead - dog parks seem to be full of untrained hyper-enthusiastic goober dogs that want to jump all over her (and their owners can't stop them). Much better to take her somewhere quiet and keep her safely on lead.

I also have a non-DA dog - the ultimate little socialite. But I still don't take him to dog parks. There are too many bonkers-dogs out there and it's a very high-intensity, high-risk environment.

There are safer places to go.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Another thing you shouldn't do (for safety reasons mainly but also for being responsible ie poop scooping), is don't stand gossiping with other dog walkers.

Far too many people whe were busy chatting, didn't notice the beginnings of incidents between dogs and fights/injuries could be prevented if they had been paying attention.

We have a huge dog park in this area and the other owners usually stand in one area chatting. This park has had many attacks and I didn't like it last time I went when 3 out of control labradors nearly knocked me over and harassed my dogs. They might have been wanting to have "fun" and were not nasty but they were certainly dangerous in that the three of them together was far too much for some people and small dogs to cope with physically.

Dogs out of control and bouncing all over other dogs - No. Undesexed dogs - no, esp not if females are in season (you shouldn't have to tell anyone but from posts on DOL, I'm afraid you do). Greyhounds and other dogs with uncontrollable high prey drive - no.

There's just so much that can go wrong isn't there?

[aussielover]

I think it is very misleading to say "aggressive dogs shouldn't go". Who gets to define aggression? What threshold to aggression is acceptable? Should a dog tolerate being ran at by another? What about being jumped on if the dog is 'friendly'? Should dogs that go to dog parks have to tolerate being mounted? Your going to eliminate most of the dog population if you say dogs that go to dog parks should like EVERY dog.

I have a dog here who will very appropriately tell other dogs off for being rude. Many people though- would think she was aggressive if they watched her do this.

What about dogs with a low tolerance for other dogs who are exercised off lead, with a reliable recall and owner leaves when other dogs arrive? Is that not okay because of the what if the dog doesn't recall/ dog gets surprised? There are lots of what ifs that people don't think about- what ifs that relate to dogs being dogs, not doing anything terribly wrong.

As someone else said- issues often occur with people not understanding their dog has an issue, not often with those who do. Aggressive dogs have as much right as anyone else to be RESPONSIBLY exercised.

Dogs are not robots.

I think I would define aggression as a history of causing injury to another dog. My dog was like yours and used to tell off other dogs for inapproporiate behaviour, it sounded bad and some thought she was aggressive but no actual injury was done to the other dog. However, i still tried to avoid other people with dog i though might cause her to get annoyed.

Obviously a dog can still be aggressive without having attacked another dog, but dogs with a known history of attacking and causing injury are definitely aggressive and should be exercised and controlled as thus.

Dogmad- do you have a link to the article, i would be interested to have a read

Edited August 9, 2010 by aussielover

[Henrietta]

Hi Aussie, I'm not sure that aggression can be defined as a history of injury to another dog (although I can see where you are coming from). My dog is aggressive, but has never caused injury due to a combination of what I am sure was dumb luck initially and then through management once I realised for sure I had some issues. For me, there were heaps of signs that something was not quite right, that let me know that there were certain situations I couldn't put my dog in. Looking back, I'm sure I missed a lot right at the beginning as I was quite inexperienced.

I have a definition of aggression in my head, but I'm no behaviourist. I think it comes down to what is appropriate behaviour and what is inappropriate behaviour.

The dog that corrects another for 'rude' behaviour is displaying appropriate behaviour, whilst a dog that barks, lunges and growls simply because a dog is in the general vicinity is not displaying very appropriate behaviour. I don't know if that is very helpful, is it?

If people are being responsible about exercising their dogs, I don't have a problem. But this comes down to the individual dog and owner. There are things I would never do, because I simply do not have the confidence to do so, even if we had a very high level of training under my belt. This is just me though.

[Odin-Genie]

I have seen dogs that readily start fights in dog parks and am thankful my older dog can pick them well before he gets close enough to trigger them, and chooses to sensibly leave them alone.

This is not always an option. One fear aggressive dog at one of the dog parks was playing chase with other dogs. My dog, who doesn't like group games, was at a distance drinking water. This fear aggressive dog, while being chased by other dogs, suddenly panicked and because my dog was in front of her, jumped on him and attacked him. No serious injuries since we pulled this dog off immediately, but if we weren't there my dog wouldn't have had the option of walking away. The idiot owners of couse refused to put this dog on lead and said that if their dog didn't like mine, perhaps my dog is the problem

If I ever see them approaching the park, I would leave immediately.

[Greytmate]

We have two dog parks near our house.

One park is small, well-grassed, hardly used. There is plenty of time to see who is approaching the gate, and everyone generally puts their dogs back on lead or asks them to wait back until the new dog comes in.

The other park is huge, bare, and full of dogs. Dogs rush at the gate at full speed while the owners congregate in the centre of the park. It is in a different area of housing, and that makes a very big difference as to the demographic of who goes in there, and the breeds they have chosen as pets.

One I feel very safe to take my dogs into, one I do not. I don't like the b-dog park at all.

[ash&elar]

when i was younger my dad had a black lab, i took him to dog ob from 6months old he was great with the other dogs until one day a gsd the same age (about 12months) but at least twice his size jumped him as we were doing zig zagging through the dogs, from then he became more n more dog aggressive, but i knew what he was like and kept him far enough away from the other dogs as to not be a problem, we got up to the last level in dog ob in the off leash classes, being able to drop stay him in the line and walk away leaving him sitting next to the other dogs, i was always looking for any body language that would indicate he was uncomfortable or possiblie going to do something, he never attacked another dog at dog ob because i never gave him the chance. BUT if i hadn't of had that control over him i wouldn't of had him there, so think it really depends like others have said the level of DA and the level of control.

[minxy]

I think it's fine to take them out for exercise if the park is empty, and then put their leash back on and leave if other dogs arrive. I don't think any dog should be deprived of exercise, but I don't think it's acceptable at all to bring a DA dog into an off leash area/dog park when it's busy, or these is no way of avoiding the other dogs.

[DerRottweiler]

I don't really care if DA dogs miss out.

That's what they get for being DA, there are plenty of other places to exercise your dog.

My dog is dominant, but he is a loner, he won't go up to other dogs, he just spends his time marking the park. If a dog comes up to him, he is fine, so long as the dog doesn't show any dominance.

He was attacked out of the blue recently, he defended himself and pinned/bit the aggressor, who then ran away to its owner. The owner of the other dog blamed me and left......others at the park agreed that I was not at fault.... but had my dog the evil Rottweiler mauled the other dog, guess who gets put down? I'd rather not have my dog hurt another dog, even in self defense.

[Joel]

I think it depends on a few factors. The first being the park. If the park is small and fenced like the one greytmate talks about, then so long as there is time for the owner to put a leash on the dog before anyone comes in, then sure, no problem. But (from my experience) many people aren't lucky enough to have a park like that. There are a lot of dog parks near my house and none of them are.

Also, it must be kept in mind that a dog may be alert to the presence of another dog well before you are. If a DA dog is aware of another dog before you see them, theres a good chance that its too late.

I think the general concensus is: if a dog is under complete control (i mean, if you can call your dog back no matter the situation or temptation and have them do nothing if you tell them to) then you are well within your right to take your dog to a dog park if you choose. The problem is, most people don't have this level of control with their dogs (DA or not). Most dogs at the dog parks that ive been to are out of their minds with excitement and a lot of them show dominance towards other dogs. I personally think they're a recipe for disaster unless you can be there when nobody else is or are there with people and dogs that both you and your dog are familiar and comfortable with. In a perfect world, everyone would have complete control over their dogs and it wouldn't be an issue (well, i guess in a perfect world there wouldnt be any DA dogs - YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN ). In this world, unless you have your dogs aggression completely under control, I don't think a dog park is a place for a DA dog unless you can be certain that either you can warn people or leash the dog and move on before its too late.

EDIT to add:

I don't really care if DA dogs miss out.

That's what they get for being DA, there are plenty of other places to exercise your dog.

Woooooah.

A dog doesn't understand that because its aggressive towards other dogs that it misses out. All it understands is that it doesn't get to go anywhere. I do agree however that there are plenty of places to exercise a dog if you're determined to find them. Hell, if I had no option, I would be walking around knocking on peoples doors asking if we could use their yard. Even if I had to pay them. If someone who has a DA dog is determined to find a place that they can exercise it off leash without the worry of running into another dog, then they will. I think it was a bit unfair to say that a dog should know that if its DA it doesn't get to play. (I kinda understand what you meant, but I don't think it really works that way)

Edited August 10, 2010 by Joel

[DerRottweiler]

EDIT to add:

I don't really care if DA dogs miss out.

That's what they get for being DA, there are plenty of other places to exercise your dog.

Woooooah.

A dog doesn't understand that because its aggressive towards other dogs that it misses out. All it understands is that it doesn't get to go anywhere. I do agree however that there are plenty of places to exercise a dog if you're determined to find them. Hell, if I had no option, I would be walking around knocking on peoples doors asking if we could use their yard. Even if I had to pay them. If someone who has a DA dog is determined to find a place that they can exercise it off leash without the worry of running into another dog, then they will. I think it was a bit unfair to say that a dog should know that if its DA it doesn't get to play. (I kinda understand what you meant, but I don't think it really works that way)

How about going for a run with the dog on lead? I do that with my dog almost daily. Dog pools? Going early when no other dogs are around? The options are numerous. I don't see no off-leash dog park time= no exercise. Maybe if the owner is lazy.

If a dog is DA, it doesn't deserve to be off-leash with other dogs, it is just common sense.

Sure, if the park is empty, or the dog is muzzled, then no problems, but in normal circumstances, a DA dog shouldn't be amongst other dogs.

Again, my dog isn't aggressive, but he will defend himself. Given that he is more powerful than the majority of dogs that come to my local dog park, it isn't in my best interests to have DA dogs attacking him and then ending up hurt because he defended himself....

Edited August 10, 2010 by DerRottweiler

[Greytmate]

I dislike the use of the word 'deserve' when it comes to dog behaviour. It is sometimes used to justify terrible cruelty.

The dog has learnt that it is beneficial to react in certain ways to certain stimuli. The dog has no control over its training or breeding. Humans have bred or trained the dog to be what it is, the dog has no agenda.

[DerRottweiler]

Of course it is the owner's fault, but at the end of the day, the dog is the one that either gets to play off-leash or not, based on the merits of its own behaviour, not the owner.

I could rephrase it to, the owner of the dog doesn't deserve to take their dog to an off-leash park, but the owner isn't really missing out on anything.