Should Aggressive Dogs Be Taken To Offleash Parks?

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/con...998174/s13.html

The NSW companion animals act suggests that dogs in off lead parks are still supposed to be under "effective control".

And the clincher is this - the fine print

Note: Just because a dog is not on a lead in an off-leash area, or is secured in a cage or vehicle or is tethered to a fixed object or structure, does not mean that an offence under section 16 is not committed if the dog rushes at, attacks, bites, harasses or chases any person or animal, whether or not any injury is caused.

Here is section 16

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/con...998174/s16.html

So an aggressive dog is fine in an off leash park - so long as it never attacks or harasses anything. If an attack happens, then the council should be called and the dog and owner reported just the same as if the attack occured outside the off leash park on a council footpath.

So that's the legal side of it. I don't know why some of you are arguing it could be ok to have a dog attack on public land. That's just bonkers.

[megan_]

Thanks for the legal side of things. I don't know who is saying it is okay to have an attack on public land though?

If I had a DA dog on a leash, and a dog rushed up to it and it responded by attacking, wouldn't the rushing dog be the instigator?

[dee lee]

If the owner takes them to a fenced offlead park and removes them at the first sign of another dog, then I say yes. Otherwise no.

With a DA dog comes a huge responsibility to protect all other dogs from your dog. If that means no offlead walks, that's far better than risking a situation where another dog can potentially be injured or killed.

I had a DA dog, she was high energy and entirely walked on lead. I felt terrible about it but as we have no fenced parks nearby, I had no alternative. We walked over an hour a day, every day, and she jogged with my OH a couple of times a week. She was very fit.

I didnt use a muzzle. Perhaps I should have- it would have reduced my stressing over roaming dogs, but I really struggled with the idea.

It was hard enough living with the stigma of owning a DA dog ("yes, I trained her to viciously gnash her teeth at your dog" ), I wasn't up for advertising the fact from afar.

Kudos to all of you who do the best you can to manage your DA dogs. Its a bloody tough and heartbreaking gig.

[Skitch]

Like I said, my post was just my opinion. I completely expect people to disagree with me but I dont think an offlead park is a suitable place to exercise an aggressive dog. I dont really like using dog parks at all really, the last time I went to one my parents dog was attacked by another dog and required long term veterinary care.. this experience has also probably helped to form my opinion because that dog was known to be dog aggressive and at the time I was disgusted that it was at an offlead park.

Maybe my dog is more DA than some of the other dogs being spoken about here? Basically I wouldn't feel comfortable with taking her anywhere where I know there will be offlead dogs where I couldn't control the situation.. I suppose there's also a legal aspect to it, too.. I imagine that if your dog aggressive dog attacked another dog at a dog park and killed/hurt it you would be fully liable and the courts would go to hell on you for taking a dog that was known to be aggressive to place where you knew there would be offlead dogs. I love my dog too much to risk her life over something like that so we'll stick to exercising on lead and at private properties.. at least if she was to somehow attack another dog in either of these circumstances it would the fault of the other owner for not containing/restraining their dog effectively. Dog Aggressive dogs are entitled to exercise too!

[dee lee]

If I had a DA dog on a leash, and a dog rushed up to it and it responded by attacking, wouldn't the rushing dog be the instigator?

I believe so. I had this happen to me and the ensuing discussion on here indicated that legally the leashed dog is under effective control whereas the rushing offlead dog is not.

The discussion on ethics was not so cut and dried though!

[Skitch]

Thanks for the legal side of things. I don't know who is saying it is okay to have an attack on public land though?

If I had a DA dog on a leash, and a dog rushed up to it and it responded by attacking, wouldn't the rushing dog be the instigator?

I would think so? But I wonder if being at a dog park would affect this.. I wonder if because you knowingly took your dog to a place where you knew it was possible to come across other dogs offload if you would end up being the one at fault, even if your dog was on a lead at the park.

[SparkyTansy]

ALL dogs, DA or not, should be under effective control of their owner when off lead, or otherwise placed on lead, IMO...

Friendly or fearless dogs might naturally approach any dog on lead or off, but it's up to the owner to control that dog, because the risk is always there, just as it is up to the owner of the leashed dog to let others know their dog isn't approachable. I don't think it's fair to say no DA dogs should be allowed at dog parks, i think it's fairer to say all dogs should be under control at all times at a dog park while off lead.

[corvus]

Depends on what you mean by "aggressive". Roger Abrantes, PhD in ethology, says there's no such thing as an aggressive animal, only an animal behaving aggressively. Because they can't behave aggressively all the time. I see his point.

I'm happy to share my dog park with pushy dogs, dogs that behave inappropriately, and dogs that are protective of their personal space/toys. My dogs can learn to pick them and how to handle them. I'm not happy to share the dog park with a dog that would attack another dog without plenty of warnings and bite to do damage. One time we were walking down to the river and just before we got there someone called out to us to please wait as their dog (who was off leash) was aggressive to other dogs. We asked them if it was okay if we just walked the boys up the wharf beside the little beach where this dog was playing fetch in the water. They said that was fine, just don't come onto the beach. So we walked along the wharf and a few minutes later the owners of the other dog wrapped up their fetch game, put their dog on leash, and left the beach to us with a wave and a "thanks". It can work with good communication. Mind you, I was pretty on edge until they had left, but it's a public space and they need to exercise their dog. I thought it was responsible choosing a quiet place early in the morning to do it and was happy to give them the space they needed.

I have seen dogs that readily start fights in dog parks and am thankful my older dog can pick them well before he gets close enough to trigger them, and chooses to sensibly leave them alone. My younger dog follows his lead and if his curiosity gets the better of him I know to call him back because of what my older dog is doing. I've also seen my older dog go and get him from a tense scene between two other dogs and lead him to safety. He looks out for his little bro. I think I see way more shy dogs that shouldn't be in dog parks than aggressive dogs. If your dog is terrified of other dogs, it's not fair to take them to a dog park when it's teeming with friendly dogs.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I do not regularliy take my dog to the fully fenced off leash areas because so many people use them because they have no effective control. If only council rangers would show up occasionally and one by one, ask each person in there to call their dog.

And yes the SWF that harasses another dog is breaking the law and I think they ought to be reported too. Especially so that there is a record of the SWF behaviour when it finally meets a big dog that defends itself. It would be much harder to blame the big dog if the council has full knowledge of SWF history.

Most off leash parks are public land. Arguing a DA dog should be allowed in there when there are other dogs because it "needs to be exercised too", is asking for a dog attack. Unless the owner can be sure that their dog won't hurt any of the other dogs - no matter how silly (or normally) the other dogs behave. It is fairly normal for dogs to check out each other in a park or the beach or whatever. It isn't normal for that to automatically mean the approached dog would attack - depending on how it was approached (my dog crawls and rolls over). A dog that runs full pelt at another dog barking loudly and aggressively probably shouldn't be allowed off lead in a dog park either - no matter what size it is. That's definitely rude - even in dog language.

[Dame Aussie]

This is what I do with my DA dog and this leaves control of her environment entirely in my hands- which allows me to provide her with safe socialisation and exercise.

so she never leaves your property? She never goes to the vet? What should those of us with tiny yards do?

I'm sure she goes to the vet

All that is being said is that if you have an aggressive dog, you have the reponsibility to keep it away from situations where it could cause harm. Such as off lead areas.

ETA: Of course if the dog is under effective control, it can go where it likes, but how often do we see this at dog parks??? At the one near me...never, which is why we don't use them.

I also think it's unfair to imply that dogs who don't go to dog parks dont get enough exercise?? Mine don't and they are very well exercised, to the point where we struggle to keep the weight on them.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Aussie3

[megan_]

Why the eye rolling? It was a genuine question. If people say you need to keep control of their environment etc there are places that you have no control over - the vet is just one example.

[Dame Aussie]

Why the eye rolling? It was a genuine question. If people say you need to keep control of their environment etc there are places that you have no control over - the vet is just one example.

Sorry, I just thought it would be obvious her dogs would go to the vet if needed.

[Maddy]

Why the eye rolling? It was a genuine question. If people say you need to keep control of their environment etc there are places that you have no control over - the vet is just one example.

Obviously there are going to be times when you have to relinquish some control- but in situations like that, there are still ways to ensure minimal risks to yours or other dogs.

[Henrietta]

My girl is not offleash unless on my property or another secure private property.

I do frequently go to quiet areas at quiet times (not offleash parks though) where I can have a clear view of the environment around me. I then let her on a long line and we run and train and play together. I believe offlead exercise is important and I do try and get out and about a bit more than just our leashed walks, backyard exercise or visiting friends. It's not quite the same as an offleash romp, but I find she is much more worn out when she goes and explores an area on a long leash, complete with running, sniffing and some training and play thrown in for good measure.

[spyda62]

I have a dog aggresive dog. There is no way I would ever take her to an off leash dog park.

If another dog got in my dogs face I could not guarantee that she would not come out fighting. In my opinion that is just setting my dog up to fail!

I have spent far too long training and gaining control over her to set her up like that.

I also think it is a shame for people with happy social dogs doing what dogs do nicely...to be subjected to a bad experience with my dog.

[HugUrPup]

An aggressive dog should be muzzled when out.

[Kavik]

I don't see why a dog aggressive dog should be muzzled when out if it is only ever walked on lead and in control . We give other dogs as much space as possible - I go into driveways or the far end of the footpath, and she does not lunge at dogs passing by thanks to lots of training I have done (can't say the same for some 'friendly' dogs that I see!).

[HugUrPup]

It depends how much control over the dog the owners has.

Some larger breeds when wanting to attack will get away, so the muzzle is a good idea...especially when at an off lead park, because even if you go there and are on your own, you never know when someone else is going to arrive and you can't always call back an aggressive dog once it catches eye of another.

[Kavik]

If you can't hold the dog when it sees another dog and it can escape, you shouldn't be walking it in public at all! You can avoid peak walking times and go early morning or late at night when less likely to meet other people and dogs.

And if you can't recall your dog offlead and it is aggressive, it should NOT EVER be allowed offlead, even if no other dogs are around. I don't care if it is muzzled or not.

[Staranais]

As a general rule, I'd say aggressive dogs have no place in an offleash park.

But it also depends on the size & layout of the park. It depends on how aggressive the "aggressive" dog is. And it also depends how obedient the DA dog is.

In my experience, aggression issues at dog parks tend to be with people who don't understand (or don't want to believe) that their dog is aggressive or rude, not so much with the people who accept their dog is DA and take appropriate precautions.