Sit Stays

[Mas1981]

My dog is 16 months old and I have taken him to obedience classes right after he finished pup classes, he was always brilliant at sit stays and never moved a muscle. About 2 months ago he started dropping in the sit stays and nothing I do seems to fix it, I have so far tried the following:

- changing the word I use to tell him to stay

- changing mys signal

- going back and feeding him every few seconds

The only way he will sit for more than 4 seconds without dropping is if I stand so close to him that he has no choice but to sit - I did this for a month now thinking that maybe it would help if I just move back a foot at a time per week etc but it does not help as soon as there is a gap he lays down again.

If i have his dinner bowl full of food and he can smell it or see it he will do a perfect sit stay from any distance.

I really dont know what to do to fix this and I am feeling very dispondent with my obedience at the moment as I know I wont be able to compete with a dog who wont do a sit stay!!

[Erny]

Firstly - avoid training ANY drop/stays for the time being. ONLY sit/stays. The slide to drop often occurs when we've done more training on the drop/stays than on the sit/stays. Sometimes though, the dog just finds it more comfortable to be in a drop position. We need to teach them that regardless, when we say "sit" it means we want the sit and not the drop. When you do re-introduce drop/stays to randomise (this will be when you have the sit/stays beginning to happen again) reward high for the sit/stays and lower for the drop/stays until both are equally reliable.

Second - what is it that you do, verbally and/or physically when you return to him to re-adjust him to the sit position? Also, what distance (regardless of how small) can you get before he will slide to the drop? How many times have you returned to him to adjust him back to the sit, in one session?

If you're that close, then I'd use the lead to prevent the slide to drop before it happens. I'd also use my voice.

I'm thinking there's something in your body language (which includes facial expression) which might be affecting your dog's interpretation of what you want from him.

[bedazzledx2]

If he will do a sit stay for his dinner at home you can generalize it by taking it on the road. Go back a few steps and start like he is a puppy. Take his normal dinner bowl and all the makings with you and let him see you prepare his dinner. Get him to do a short sit stay, return and release him to his dinner. Take it to another place and do the same. Gradually increase the duration...remember duration and distraction before distance. Stop doing group stays for now as he is just rehearsing the behaviour you don't want.

[The Spotted Devil]

Firstly, relax If you're getting anxious, your body language won't help his confidence.

Secondly, do you know the 'steady feet game'? It's designed for stand for exam preparation but I love it for sit stays too - makes it fun and allows the dog to feel in control.

Edited August 9, 2010 by The Spotted Devil

[Mas1981]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Here is some more info:

I have not done any drop/down stays since he has started this and the only group stay I have done is one in class yesterday but he was miles from another dog and I was going back and feeding every few seconds ( I was only about 3 feet away anyway and he managed to do it for a minute), this past month I have been doing only really short stays for a few seconds to try and correct this - trouble is if I leave him for more than say 15 seconds or so I am guaranteed that he will drop.

[BMAK]

hi there

trying to find out some more info first,

say you just halted from heeling he automatically sits beside you waiting for further comand/footwork, if you were to stay there (beside on right side of him) for 5-10 without giving any commands or movement does he laydown ??

if not you probably just need to work on your stays

i would deffinatley go back to basics and repitition.

he knows the exercise he is probably being lazy and seeing what he can get away with,

keep your sessions very short and always finish in a exercise he can do great or altinate your treats or reward system maybe a toy or tug might influence him better?

after you halt give the command strong and firm and tell him stay dont move just stay right beside him heel position.

Have your leash lose enough that it has a small loop but short enough that you can correct straight away, if he is to break correcting him straight away staying calm without using tone or saying ahh nooo cos your are transfuring your frustration.

pull him up by the leash until his body is back in the sit dont speak he is still on the same command STAY if he is to chuck a wobbly when you use the lead to correct reach over with both hands GENTLEY grab his fur around his neck/jaw area pull him up this isnt being harsh his own mum would grab them but there neck to correct them with out saying anything calmly place him in the sit if he does it again with the next few second grab him again slightly pulling his body higher and placing it in the sit position again this is your dog protesting if he does it again and dont let him get away with it because he knows he can get away with it if he doesnt move after the first time wait untill he is calm them throw a ball or play tug this is his reward for staying.

NEXT step: rocking motion then pivoting directly infront of his nose your dog must master the basics before your move on, tell him to stay in sit, right leg comes foward and rock back and forth but you must be able to reward him after your first rocking motion then you can build on distance and time he soon realises he reward is tug-o-war when he does the right thing if he breaks back to basics and no reward or interaction just firm handling

hope this works some dogs respond different to each particualar type of training ie conventional and motivational

[sas]

I'd have the dogs back checked as well...just being slightly out can cause them to drop in a sit stay as it's uncomfortable.

[Mas1981]

I'd have the dogs back checked as well...just being slightly out can cause them to drop in a sit stay as it's uncomfortable.

I was thinking about this, he does what they call ' a slack sit" so I thought that it may be his hips - his hips are fine so maybe it is his back?

[Mas1981]

Catherine B thanks for your reply - with food treats its a bit hard to alternate as he is basicallly allergic to everything besides roo meat and veggies and he is not really interested in tugs or toys as a reward, I find food is the biggest motivating factor for him. I will give your suggestions a try though

[Staranais]

If i have his dinner bowl full of food and he can smell it or see it he will do a perfect sit stay from any distance.

I would wonder if this is because food is exciting, he does not relax into a drop as he feels excited not relaxed. Sit is a more alert posture than drop is. It could reflect this, rather than being a sign he actually understands "sit stay". Something to think about.

If this were my dog I think I would go back to releasing/rewarding the sit/stay before he can break it, & gradually extend the duration. Sounds to me like he just doesn't understand.