Practice Baby?

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

Grew up with dogs , come from a huge extended family grew up with kids

Now have dogs and kids , very different , dogs are easier , human babies are helpless dependant people

I do feel that it can be an experience for learning to consider a living creature before yourself but it is a whole world apart from babies

If you want a child have a child (or adopt foster or go into childcare )

If you want a dog have a dog

I could never substitute one for the other , I love both and would have 50 of each if I could

[Greytmate]

Is it a cav thing do you think?

What do you mean? I guess her breed or cross breed (small) and her temprement/personality makes her a good practice baby. She loves to be with us and is oh so adorable but I think lots of breeds are like that???

Some toy breeds were developed to be baby substitutes. They have large head size compared to their small body, have large round eyes in comparison with their head size, and have had their muzzles shortened to give a round 'baby-face' appearance. They were bred to be house companions and to be cuddled. The phenomenon is called neoteny.

Besides that, I do notice on DOL that a lot of owners of these sort of breeds tend to refer to themselves as their dog's Mummy and refer to their partners as their dog's Daddy. Happens with other breeds as well, but it seems to be more prevalent with young childless couples that own 'baby-faced' breeds like cavs or shih tzus.

[SparkyTansy]

I know of one couple who appeared to get a couple of dogs as practice babies. They lived in the house, they did all the right things with obedience training and socialising... then they had a baby, and the dogs went outside. I heard later that one of the dogs was so distressed being shoved outside after living a life of comfort and companionship inside the home that he became destructive and noisy. Neighbours complained and they rehomed the dog.

I dont like the term "practice baby" if the couple deliberately goes out to get a dog that is their "trial run" for parenting. I also don't like it when people humanise their dogs by treating them the way they would treat a child.

Wanting a dog and then realising that you can successfully look after and be responsible for another living creature is what I don't mind, so long as the committment is there for life. Poppydog you are clearly in this category!

[huga]

Is it a cav thing do you think?

What do you mean? I guess her breed or cross breed (small) and her temprement/personality makes her a good practice baby. She loves to be with us and is oh so adorable but I think lots of breeds are like that???

Some toy breeds were developed to be baby substitutes. They have large head size compared to their small body, have large round eyes in comparison with their head size, and have had their muzzles shortened to give a round 'baby-face' appearance. They were bred to be house companions and to be cuddled. The phenomenon is called neoteny.

Besides that, I do notice on DOL that a lot of owners of these sort of breeds tend to refer to themselves as their dog's Mummy and refer to their partners as their dog's Daddy. Happens with other breeds as well, but it seems to be more prevalent with young childless couples that own 'baby-faced' breeds like cavs or shih tzus.

Or pugs

[Greytmate]

Yes, pugs are like cute lil' bubbas too.

My dogs are not like babies. They are more like teenagers. Lazy, ungrateful teenagers that sleep all day, never lift a finger to help with the housework, and expect all their meals and laundry to be done for them.

[macka]

Some toy breeds were developed to be baby substitutes. They have large head size compared to their small body, have large round eyes in comparison with their head size, and have had their muzzles shortened to give a round 'baby-face' appearance. They were bred to be house companions and to be cuddled. The phenomenon is called neoteny.

Besides that, I do notice on DOL that a lot of owners of these sort of breeds tend to refer to themselves as their dog's Mummy and refer to their partners as their dog's Daddy. Happens with other breeds as well, but it seems to be more prevalent with young childless couples that own 'baby-faced' breeds like cavs or shih tzus.

Fessing up - We do that. It is however meant in a joking way! And I do believe we treat our dogs like dogs and not children.

[silverdog]

Shivers indeed.

I know the OP didn't really mean that they think of their dog as a practice baby.

However, it would be wise to remember that some people actually DO think this way and that it is an all too common story to hear of a much cosseted, pampered and beloved "substitute" child (dog) relegated to the backyard once the "real thing" comes along. Sad to say the next step is often to "re-home" the dog once baby begins to toddle about exploring the world and mommy and daddy decide that their (now neglected, and as a result, not very well behaved) dog poses a risk to the baby, or that they simply don't have the time to put into the dog anymore.

That being said, having human babies sure does prepare you for dealing with the responsibility of caring for a puppy.

[aussielover]

While I don't really agree with the concept of a "practice baby" and would never do it myself, I think if people really do want to go down that path they may like to consider puppy raising for guide dogs or assistance dogs.

This way they receive support from the organisiation, they have to devote a lot of time to the puppy and look after it properly (otherwise they can have it taken away). Also, when the time comes to have a baby, the dog will not be shoved outside but instead go on to be trained to make a difference to someone elses life. They can then choose to get a dog of their own if they wish and raise it in the way they wish it to interact with their baby.

A lot people also do this as a practice puppy thing, before they get a dog of their own.

[PoppyDog]

Everyone always tells me that I'm a natural mother because how I look after Charlie and Emmy. But, I don't know. I watch my friends who are parents, they have it so much harder then i do with my two... I don't think I have the patience for being a parent yet!

Not denying that Charlie and Emmy does bring out the nurturing side of me... I love looking after them, training them, make sure they are happy and give them a lot of attention, but I just thought it was because they make me so happy. They can destroy my favorite handbag because I stupidly left it on the floor, but I can't get mad at them because they are so cute and I can always forgive Emmy when she comes and gives me a cuddle... or when Charlie comes and snuggles right beside me and put his head on my shoulder... I feel everything is right in the world.

Aww! I agree! I do think they bring out the nurturer in you! I sleep on my side with my knees slightly bent and Poppy usually sleeps in the little space in between my tummy and my knees. It makes me feel so content and happy. Especially when my fiance is working night shift or is away for some reason. She always comes up and lies next to my head for a cuddle when I get into bed too then goes down and snuggles in for the night! <3

I have had a few people make that comment to us. My mum told me she ran into an old school friend of mine who asked if I had kids. My mum replied 'well, they have the dogs, honestly I don't know if they will ever have children' Both my parents and inlaws know how much we love our 3 - and they adore their granddogs in return.

Thats funny you say that. My inlaws to be are NOT doggy people but when they came to visit they coo'ed and aww'ed over Poppy so much that they had her up on the couch with them giving them cuddles. My fiance was shocked! He thought they would be very much against that. They still ask how Poppy is everytime the call!

My parents aren't either - we had a dog growing up but he was an 'outside' dog. So to have 3 in the house was a shock for my folks - however they love them and love giving them pats and cuddles when they come over. My inlaws last dog was allowed in the house, slept in the bed etc so they took to our three easily - however they don't quite understand pack dynamics etc as they have never had more than one dog at a time. They actually humanise the dogs more than we do. My MIL is still going on about the fact that she has to buy 2 more dryzabone coats because Oscar and Lilly will get jealous that Patch is the only one with one

It has given me a bit of insight as to how they will be as grandparents - and I see overbearing inlaws in my future We are always told we don't feed the dogs enough etc.

Oh we had that too! Poppy had been sick and we were doing the whole cooked chicken breast then slowly re-introducing kibble thing as the vet reccomended. Meanwhile father in law to be wanted to feed her his left over sausage!

Grew up with dogs , come from a huge extended family grew up with kids

Now have dogs and kids , very different , dogs are easier , human babies are helpless dependant people

I do feel that it can be an experience for learning to consider a living creature before yourself but it is a whole world apart from babies

If you want a child have a child (or adopt foster or go into childcare )

If you want a dog have a dog

I could never substitute one for the other , I love both and would have 50 of each if I could

I agree with the bolded statement. I would never get a dog JUST because I wanted a baby! I just think that there are some aspects of puppyhood that may help prepare you for parenthood.

Is it a cav thing do you think?

What do you mean? I guess her breed or cross breed (small) and her temprement/personality makes her a good practice baby. She loves to be with us and is oh so adorable but I think lots of breeds are like that???

Some toy breeds were developed to be baby substitutes. They have large head size compared to their small body, have large round eyes in comparison with their head size, and have had their muzzles shortened to give a round 'baby-face' appearance. They were bred to be house companions and to be cuddled. The phenomenon is called neoteny.

Besides that, I do notice on DOL that a lot of owners of these sort of breeds tend to refer to themselves as their dog's Mummy and refer to their partners as their dog's Daddy. Happens with other breeds as well, but it seems to be more prevalent with young childless couples that own 'baby-faced' breeds like cavs or shih tzus.

Wow! I had never thought of that before but it is very true! We refer to ourselves as Mummy and Daddy. And the features of a pure Cav are very human baby like! Very interesting. I think if anyone every did a study of this like another poster suggested it would be interesting to see the types of breeds people chose.

I know of one couple who appeared to get a couple of dogs as practice babies. They lived in the house, they did all the right things with obedience training and socialising... then they had a baby, and the dogs went outside. I heard later that one of the dogs was so distressed being shoved outside after living a life of comfort and companionship inside the home that he became destructive and noisy. Neighbours complained and they rehomed the dog.

I dont like the term "practice baby" if the couple deliberately goes out to get a dog that is their "trial run" for parenting. I also don't like it when people humanise their dogs by treating them the way they would treat a child.

Wanting a dog and then realising that you can successfully look after and be responsible for another living creature is what I don't mind, so long as the committment is there for life. Poppydog you are clearly in this category!

See, that makes me SO sad! I never want to replace Poppy. I want her to be part of the family and I want our future children to love and care for her like we do. I will be doing A LOT of research about how to bring home a baby with and ensure that the family dog isn't put out of place when the time does come!

[Greytmate]

Shivers indeed.

I know the OP didn't really mean that they think of their dog as a practice baby.

However, it would be wise to remember that some people actually DO think this way and that it is an all too common story to hear of a much cosseted, pampered and beloved "substitute" child (dog) relegated to the backyard once the "real thing" comes along. Sad to say the next step is often to "re-home" the dog once baby begins to toddle about exploring the world and mommy and daddy decide that their (now neglected, and as a result, not very well behaved) dog poses a risk to the baby, or that they simply don't have the time to put into the dog anymore.

That being said, having human babies sure does prepare you for dealing with the responsibility of caring for a puppy.

No, I wouldn't suggest that the OP sees her dog as a practice baby. But she does recognise that it happens, which is important.

Even if the people with the 'baby dogs' never do go on to have children, there still can be all sorts of problems with owners anthropomorphising their dogs.

The dog may be filling a gap in a person that could sometimes be filled in a healthier way. And it is in the dog's best interests to be treated as a dog, not a little human.

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

Everyone always tells me that I'm a natural mother because how I look after Charlie and Emmy. But, I don't know. I watch my friends who are parents, they have it so much harder then i do with my two... I don't think I have the patience for being a parent yet!

Not denying that Charlie and Emmy does bring out the nurturing side of me... I love looking after them, training them, make sure they are happy and give them a lot of attention, but I just thought it was because they make me so happy. They can destroy my favorite handbag because I stupidly left it on the floor, but I can't get mad at them because they are so cute and I can always forgive Emmy when she comes and gives me a cuddle... or when Charlie comes and snuggles right beside me and put his head on my shoulder... I feel everything is right in the world.

Aww! I agree! I do think they bring out the nurturer in you! I sleep on my side with my knees slightly bent and Poppy usually sleeps in the little space in between my tummy and my knees. It makes me feel so content and happy. Especially when my fiance is working night shift or is away for some reason. She always comes up and lies next to my head for a cuddle when I get into bed too then goes down and snuggles in for the night! <3

I have had a few people make that comment to us. My mum told me she ran into an old school friend of mine who asked if I had kids. My mum replied 'well, they have the dogs, honestly I don't know if they will ever have children' Both my parents and inlaws know how much we love our 3 - and they adore their granddogs in return.

Thats funny you say that. My inlaws to be are NOT doggy people but when they came to visit they coo'ed and aww'ed over Poppy so much that they had her up on the couch with them giving them cuddles. My fiance was shocked! He thought they would be very much against that. They still ask how Poppy is everytime the call!

My parents aren't either - we had a dog growing up but he was an 'outside' dog. So to have 3 in the house was a shock for my folks - however they love them and love giving them pats and cuddles when they come over. My inlaws last dog was allowed in the house, slept in the bed etc so they took to our three easily - however they don't quite understand pack dynamics etc as they have never had more than one dog at a time. They actually humanise the dogs more than we do. My MIL is still going on about the fact that she has to buy 2 more dryzabone coats because Oscar and Lilly will get jealous that Patch is the only one with one

It has given me a bit of insight as to how they will be as grandparents - and I see overbearing inlaws in my future We are always told we don't feed the dogs enough etc.

Oh we had that too! Poppy had been sick and we were doing the whole cooked chicken breast then slowly re-introducing kibble thing as the vet reccomended. Meanwhile father in law to be wanted to feed her his left over sausage!

Grew up with dogs , come from a huge extended family grew up with kids

Now have dogs and kids , very different , dogs are easier , human babies are helpless dependant people

I do feel that it can be an experience for learning to consider a living creature before yourself but it is a whole world apart from babies

If you want a child have a child (or adopt foster or go into childcare )

If you want a dog have a dog

I could never substitute one for the other , I love both and would have 50 of each if I could

I agree with the bolded statement. I would never get a dog JUST because I wanted a baby! I just think that there are some aspects of puppyhood that may help prepare you for parenthood.

Is it a cav thing do you think?

What do you mean? I guess her breed or cross breed (small) and her temprement/personality makes her a good practice baby. She loves to be with us and is oh so adorable but I think lots of breeds are like that???

Some toy breeds were developed to be baby substitutes. They have large head size compared to their small body, have large round eyes in comparison with their head size, and have had their muzzles shortened to give a round 'baby-face' appearance. They were bred to be house companions and to be cuddled. The phenomenon is called neoteny.

Besides that, I do notice on DOL that a lot of owners of these sort of breeds tend to refer to themselves as their dog's Mummy and refer to their partners as their dog's Daddy. Happens with other breeds as well, but it seems to be more prevalent with young childless couples that own 'baby-faced' breeds like cavs or shih tzus.

Wow! I had never thought of that before but it is very true! We refer to ourselves as Mummy and Daddy. And the features of a pure Cav are very human baby like! Very interesting. I think if anyone every did a study of this like another poster suggested it would be interesting to see the types of breeds people chose.

I know of one couple who appeared to get a couple of dogs as practice babies. They lived in the house, they did all the right things with obedience training and socialising... then they had a baby, and the dogs went outside. I heard later that one of the dogs was so distressed being shoved outside after living a life of comfort and companionship inside the home that he became destructive and noisy. Neighbours complained and they rehomed the dog.

I dont like the term "practice baby" if the couple deliberately goes out to get a dog that is their "trial run" for parenting. I also don't like it when people humanise their dogs by treating them the way they would treat a child.

Wanting a dog and then realising that you can successfully look after and be responsible for another living creature is what I don't mind, so long as the committment is there for life. Poppydog you are clearly in this category!

See, that makes me SO sad! I never want to replace Poppy. I want her to be part of the family and I want our future children to love and care for her like we do. I will be doing A LOT of research about how to bring home a baby with and ensure that the family dog isn't put out of place when the time does come!

Never had any issues introducing new babies to our dogs , Poppy will be fine with your new arrival , just watch out for the over protective side

when we brought home my second child no one but direct ( me Hubby and big sis ) were allowed in the upstairs part of the house by our rottie girl , no unattended visits to bubs bedroom MIL was bailed at the top of the stairs a few times ( bailed not bitten)

[kiesha09]

I get SSSOOOOO sick of my SIL saying 'you only got dogs to prepare you for babies, but once the babies come along you won't care about the dogs.' Its a disgraceful comment to make and I feel like slapping her every time she says it!

I love dogs and I love kids but they are not mutually exclusive.

[natamalie]

Is it a cav thing do you think?

What do you mean? I guess her breed or cross breed (small) and her temprement/personality makes her a good practice baby. She loves to be with us and is oh so adorable but I think lots of breeds are like that???

Some toy breeds were developed to be baby substitutes. They have large head size compared to their small body, have large round eyes in comparison with their head size, and have had their muzzles shortened to give a round 'baby-face' appearance. They were bred to be house companions and to be cuddled. The phenomenon is called neoteny.

Besides that, I do notice on DOL that a lot of owners of these sort of breeds tend to refer to themselves as their dog's Mummy and refer to their partners as their dog's Daddy. Happens with other breeds as well, but it seems to be more prevalent with young childless couples that own 'baby-faced' breeds like cavs or shih tzus.

Wow that was a really interesting read Greytmate, thanks for the link!

I have to confess to calling my partner 'Daddy' around our dog, (who is a Ridgeback by the way) and I've heard him call me 'Mummy', but only when we're mucking around. We got him because we wanted a dog and having him in our lives has been extremely rewarding. I think combining our efforts for the welfare of another living thing has been great not only for Zander, but for our relationship, and I guess this could in turn have a positive influence on how we might handle parenting. I say *might* though! Parenting is obviously a whole different ball game.

I have to say one of my pet hates is people that completely disregard their dogs after having children. I appreciate that you wouldn't have as much time to dedicate to your pets after having a baby, but at least put *some* effort into continuing to include them in your lives!

[Greytmate]

Of course people are going to be offended if you suggest that the dog is a practice for their baby.

I think it is important that when people first get a dog, they raise it in the way that they expect it to live for its whole life. If a woman is planning on having a baby, she needs to understand that life with a baby means that she cannot have dogs jumping up on her lap or into her bed while she is trying to breast feed, or cuddle her new baby.

So the responsible thing to do is not to allow the dog to demand affection, but instead to train it to wait until it is allowed to jump up for a cuddle, or have a treat or whatever. From the start. Well before the real baby comes along.

I believe that new babies deserve a lot of attention from their parents, and having a dog constantly demanding attention and closeness from their parents diminishes that. In that busy time when a new baby comes home, it is logical that many people physically isolate their untrained dog from their baby, rather than devote the time to training the dog to be happy lying on the floor nearby.

Responsible dog owners train their dogs to cope with their planned lifestyle. Treating a dog as a baby by giving it affection on demand and excessive physical closeness is not in a dog's best interests when you know there will soon come a time when you cannot possibly do this. It's not going to be good for the dog and may cause a lot of problems.

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

Agree with Greymate , our kids and dogs have always worked because the dogs knew they were dogs , trained with NILF and behaviour was already what you would require from a family dog

It works well the dog does not have the expectation of being the apple of your eye 24 x 7 and can sit on the other side of the room and watch with interest without bumping , nudging new babe and mum

[stormie]

I think you can look at the concept of a 'practice baby' in lots of different ways. Obviously dogs and babies are worlds apart but I don't think the OP was meaning that they treat their dog like a baby or would treat their baby like a dog.

I wouldn't have thought it was that uncommon for couples to get a pet together first, not as a practice baby, but simply as a first step to sharing the responsibility of another life and meeting its specific needs and requirements together.

[Bjelkier]

Ah no my dogs arn't practise babies they are my beloved dogs.

I never want to have kids so I'm not practisng for anything.

[ravenau1]

Ah no my dogs arn't practise babies they are my beloved dogs.

I never want to have kids so I'm not practisng for anything.

Same here, kids are definitely not on the agenda (I like other people's kids ok, but have ZERO interest in having my own), but I love dogs. I want a dog because it's a dog! .

[Fleuri]

Agree with Greymate , our kids and dogs have always worked because the dogs knew they were dogs , trained with NILF and behaviour was already what you would require from a family dog

It works well the dog does not have the expectation of being the apple of your eye 24 x 7 and can sit on the other side of the room and watch with interest without bumping , nudging new babe and mum

agree

edited to add, I think dogs are easier to than children.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Fleuri

[raineth]

I think you can look at the concept of a 'practice baby' in lots of different ways. Obviously dogs and babies are worlds apart but I don't think the OP was meaning that they treat their dog like a baby or would treat their baby like a dog.

I wouldn't have thought it was that uncommon for couples to get a pet together first, not as a practice baby, but simply as a first step to sharing the responsibility of another life and meeting its specific needs and requirements together.

that's more how I see it.

I don't think dogs and children are worlds apart. Dogs and babies are quite different, but babies turn into kids soon enough.

The underlying principles are very similar: they learn in the same ways, both require discipline, consistency, time, commitment and teaching. They have needs that must be met by the owner/parent that require the owner/parent to sacrifice certain things. Also if you there is more than one parent/owner you both need to talk and agree on the way you are going to raise the dog/baby.

in fact my kids are basically raised on NILIF principles they want something, they have to earn it. Although admittedly you can't and wouldn't do that with a baby

so in that way I can see that it may be helful to have a dog before a baby.

Ofcourse I don't like "I need to mother something, so I will mother a dog, and when baby comes along the poor dog might not as well even exist" kind of thinking. But the OP evidently doesn't mean that.