Colour Possibility In Stafford Pups

[loveastaff2010]

hi all i posted a couple of weeks ago about finding a red stafford pup and thanx to a lot of help are awaiting a litter hopefully from a mating planned for later this year.

from a very reputable breeder who from reputation doesnt put money before the welfare of her dogs etc,

anyway i was talking to a friend of mine who was looking for a stafford or as she calls them english staffys,now no matter what i tell her she doesnt see the point in buying a puppy with papers if she only wants a pet lol i have been over it hundreds of times with her.

anyway she has found a upcoming litter of unregistered pups due next week.

the dad is black brindle and the mum is blue fawn she is trying to tell me its possible to get blues,reds and blacks i dont know much about the genetics of colour would this be possible.

the pups come vacc,wormed and microchipped apparently

i asked about health testing but the people have told her both parents are healthy and thats all she cares about.

oh and she wants a girl i wonder why?????

anyway was just wondering on possible colour combinations if anyone would know

hopefully the bitch is just faking being pregnant although i doubt it

again just wanted to say a huge thanx for helping me find a great breeder

[TeamSnag]

:D

[Borderpower]

hi all i posted a couple of weeks ago about finding a red stafford pup and thanx to a lot of help are awaiting a litter hopefully from a mating planned for later this year.

from a very reputable breeder who from reputation doesnt put money before the welfare of her dogs etc,

anyway i was talking to a friend of mine who was looking for a stafford or as she calls them english staffys,now no matter what i tell her she doesnt see the point in buying a puppy with papers if she only wants a pet lol i have been over it hundreds of times with her.

anyway she has found a upcoming litter of unregistered pups due next week.

the dad is black brindle and the mum is blue fawn she is trying to tell me its possible to get blues,reds and blacks i dont know much about the genetics of colour would this be possible.

the pups come vacc,wormed and microchipped apparently

i asked about health testing but the people have told her both parents are healthy and thats all she cares about.

oh and she wants a girl i wonder why?????

anyway was just wondering on possible colour combinations if anyone would know

hopefully the bitch is just faking being pregnant although i doubt it

again just wanted to say a huge thanx for helping me find a great breeder

As far as I know BOTH sides of the parents MUST carry the colour, in order to get it in the litter(well at lest in my breed it is)

[poodlefan]

I hope to hell your friend who is going to buy an unregistered SBT doesn't live in Queensland.

To buy a bull breed without papers in the home of BSL is nothing short of total stupidity IMO. Sadly, it won't be your friend who pays the price for that stupidity if the dog comes to the attention of council.

Politeness precludes me expressing my opinion of anyone who'd breed such dogs without papers in a BSL state. :D:

Edited August 5, 2010 by poodlefan

[Sandra777]

anyway she has found a upcoming litter of unregistered pups due next week.

the dad is black brindle and the mum is blue fawn she is trying to tell me its possible to get blues,reds and blacks i dont know much about the genetics of colour would this be possible.

anyway was just wondering on possible colour combinations if anyone would know

hopefully the bitch is just faking being pregnant although i doubt it

Everything else aside.

Blues - could happen if dad carries the dilute gene which is a recessive.

Reds - could happen if dad carries the "not brindle" gene which is a recessive.

Blacks, well that can't happen cause Staffords don't come in *black* but as dad is black brindle there could certainly be black brindles in the litter.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Sandra777

[Little Gifts]

Sandra, what do you mean they don't come in black? Are black coloured SBT's referred to as something else? And what about whites or pieds? And is there a term for brindles that are different coloured brindles like red brindles or grey brindles or dark brindles?

Just trying to learn some new info is all as I find all this stuff strangely fascinating!

Oh and why do they call greys blues? Is that just being fancy?

Edited August 6, 2010 by Puppy_Sniffer

[ellz]

Genetically, black staffords CANNOT be the "true" black seen in other breeds. Even the blackest looking Stafford is still a black brindle.

There can be many different coloured base coats with the brindle striping as the overlay. A black dog is simply a brindle dog with very wide brindle stripes that almost completely mask any base colour. A mahogany brindle is a rich red with stripes. A tiger brindle is a yellow/fawn with stripes etc etc.

In very basic terms which Sandra will be able to elaborate more on. This is just Stripes 101 - the generic version!

[Sandra777]

Sandra, what do you mean they don't come in black? Are black coloured SBT's referred to as something else?

"Black" Staffords are black brindle. The gene for Black as in Black Labrador does not exist in the breed, Staffords which appear to be black are actually black brindle and all of them IME have some brindling on them somewhere.

SOME densely black Staffords are actually tan patterned (like Dobermanns) but instead of tan markings they have brindle markings. Some black-and-brindles have very bright brindle markings in the tan-pattern places (legs, cheeks, chest, eyebrows, under the tail) and it's really obvious what they are - others have dark dark brindle markings so may have only one or two flecks of colour on the tan-pattern places. If the flecks happen to be on the lower legs chances are most people would never even see it. Interesting thing is when these dogs start to go grey all is generally revealed

And what about whites or pieds?

What about them White is a different gene to pied and the definition is blurry. What even consititutes a pied as opposed to flashy white markings can cause lots of arguments too.

White is an absence of colour, a masking gene which covers up the actual colour of the dog - underneath the dog is still brindle or red or blue and will reproduce these colours just like any other brindle or red or blue.

Brindle and Black and Tan are patterns not a colour - they work with other genes to determine the pattern in which the dog's actual colour will be displayed.

And is there a term for brindles that are different coloured brindles like red brindles or grey brindles or dark brindles?

Not officially no.

Oh and why do they call greys blues? Is that just being fancy?

Because blue is so much more sale-able than grey.

The blue the old-timers were referring to was dark steel blue like a good blue Great Dane. Unfortunately it seems it's easier to breed grey and muddy brown.

[Little Gifts]

Yep, I think I'm understanding it now! I know from experience that my 'white' dogs with 'black' markings seem to get darker over the years and if they ever get a cut in the 'black' areas the hair will usually grow back a different shade giving more of a brindle look in that area.

So here is another question for you. I have a very old black brindle. Her legs, bum and face are now nearly all white. So does the colour fade or lose intensity in old age like with people? In her youth she only had a very small strip of white on her face and some patches on her chest. The chest has actually darkened while the rest has lightened considerably.

Oh another question - is the brindle gene also why most whites have ticking? And is ticking just the hair or hair and skin? Based on mine it has seemed like it started as just the skin but that's also where the darker hair came from over time. Would that be right?

This makes me all laugh now when I know that we basically all have spethal brindles!!!!!!

[Curlybert]

anyway she has found a upcoming litter of unregistered pups due next week.

the pups come vacc,wormed and microchipped apparently

oh and she wants a girl i wonder why?????

Please, you must convince your friend to get her pup desexed before her first season. Dog knows there are more than enough staffies and staffy-crosses awaiting the green dream in pounds across Australia.

[Sandra777]

So here is another question for you. I have a very old black brindle. Her legs, bum and face are now nearly all white. So does the colour fade or lose intensity in old age like with people?

Not sure what you mean here

Oh another question - is the brindle gene also why most whites have ticking? And is ticking just the hair or hair and skin? Based on mine it has seemed like it started as just the skin but that's also where the darker hair came from over time. Would that be right?

No - ticking is a separate gene again and can be red or brindle (or both if you have a very special black and tan white ticked dog (have a good look at the next Fox Terrier clan you see, black ticks on the body red ticks on the legs is not uncommon)

Skin ticking is common and AFAIK isn't genetically the same as coat ticking, nor are they related to coat colour, all colours can have skin ticking

Coat ticking is a pain in the butt and if I remember correctly is recessive?

[Little Gifts]

QUOTE (Puppy_Sniffer @ 6th Aug 2010 - 12:23 PM)

So here is another question for you. I have a very old black brindle. Her legs, bum and face are now nearly all white. So does the colour fade or lose intensity in old age like with people?

Not sure what you mean here

I mean how come dogs hair turns 'grey' like people? Does the colour fade or is it new hair growing through without pigment? Sorry, we are possibly moving into hairdresser territory now! And why do snouts go grey first in dogs? I even notice the greying in my sisters husky/shep cross.

I hope there wont be a quiz on this later....

[Sandra777]

I mean how come dogs hair turns 'grey' like people? Does the colour fade or is it new hair growing through without pigment? Sorry, we are possibly moving into hairdresser territory now! And why do snouts go grey first in dogs? I even notice the greying in my sisters husky/shep cross.

Ah!

No idea - I vaguely remember something about a break down in the cells where the hair is formed. Everything with hair greys - including Elephants

EFS

Edited August 6, 2010 by Sandra777

[ellz]

I think pretty much hair is hair and the breakdown is the same no matter what the species.

As for pattern....I believe it is very much the same no matter what breed. Much the same as people where generally the first signs of grey are the beard and moustache (if male), the temples and along the part.

[ellz]

Something else that occurred to me when I was watching my 2yo Arabian filly at play this morning......the greying gene must be same in most species....even the location of the start. She is a classic example.

Born bay and now greying rapidly...it started at the tip of her muzzle and along her mane and now her entire face is almost white with greying starting to occur over the rest of her body as well.

If anybody is interested, I can post before and after photos when I get home tomorrow.

[Kirty]

I met a staffy pup the other day who was a really interesting colour. My brain has just gone blank but I *think* it was either chocolate or fawn... It was from a reg'd breeder and VERY cute. It was a colour I had never heard of before and was definitely not a red.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Kirty

[~SL~]

By the description I'm thinking your talking about the colour Liver Kirty.