Vaccinating An Allergic Dog

[Mas1981]

I am in a bit of a catch 22 situation, my dog has a number of allergies and he was due for his yearly booster in July, I have waited until now to consider giving it to him as he has just had his allergy testing done. My dermatologist recommends not vaccinating him and only titre testing him from now on, the trouble is he has only ever had his puppy vacs, this would have been the first year he has had a booster. My vet wants to do a C3 and then only vaccinate him every 3 years after this ( I would rather titre test after this) his argument is that there is parvo in our area and he feels the vaccination may at the worst cause him to have a flare and it may be worth it if he is protected against these diseases. I trust both my vet and the derm and I can see both of their points of view - so now what do I do??

[stormie]

I would titre test. That will tell you whether or not he needs the annual. Either he has immunity or he doesn't and if he does, it shouldn't matter if there's parvo around cause and the extra vacc will make no difference anyway.

Orbit only ever had his puppy shots and he's never been ill. I'm yet to titre him but he's been out and about to many places and always come to work in the clinic so I can only assume he has adequate immunity.

[pie]

I would titre test. That will tell you whether or not he needs the annual. Either he has immunity or he doesn't and if he does, it shouldn't matter if there's parvo around cause and the extra vacc will make no difference anyway.

Ditto, Kyzer only ever had his puppy shots and his titres came back with good levels (did the titre when his first yearly booster was due). If I were you I would titre first. I'm going to get Trixie titred soon too, she will have only had puppy shots.

[sas]

Dante's an allergic dog, his last shots were his puppy ones.

He was titre tested recently and did not required revaccinating and he is 3.5 years old.

[Erny]

My dermatologist recommends not vaccinating him and only titre testing him from now on, the trouble is he has only ever had his puppy vacs, this would have been the first year he has had a booster. My vet wants to do a C3 and then only vaccinate him every 3 years after this ( I would rather titre test after this) his argument is that there is parvo in our area and he feels the vaccination may at the worst cause him to have a flare and it may be worth it if he is protected against these diseases. I trust both my vet and the derm and I can see both of their points of view - so now what do I do??

I agree with your dermatologist.

A Titre test will confirm sero-conversion and antibodies to the core diseases.

My boy received 2 x puppy vaccinations. I goofed, with his second vaccination being administered before 14 weeks of age, so it was recommended to me that he receive a booster at 12 months after the 2nd puppy vaccination and that should be it. At age 15 months, my boy was showing allergy symptoms and other complications so I opted to NOT administer the booster and instead had a titre test which revealed sufficient immunity.

Here's some links you might be interested in reading, to help you come to a confident decision :

http://rrcus.org/rhodesianridgebackhealth/...nprotocols.html

http://rrcus.org/rhodesianridgebackhealth/...nevaccines.html

[OSoSwift]

I would titre test, no point giving him something that could cause a flair up if it is not necessary

[silverdog]

I would titre test. That will tell you whether or not he needs the annual. Either he has immunity or he doesn't and if he does, it shouldn't matter if there's parvo around cause and the extra vacc will make no difference anyway.

Another ditto.

Titre first. Boost only after you know if he really needs it.

[stormie]

Might retract what I said about titre testing giving a definite answer as to immunity. A talk last night held by an Internal Medicine Specialist said that actually they don't really know 100% that the titre levels we get back from the lab mean what we think they mean. ie. >1:80 is currently accepted as covered, however apparently they have seen dogs seroconvert levels to >1:160, so they're still learning about the whole titre level thing and it's not 100%.

I will update my topic in the vacc seminar with a basic run down on the talk and when its available, give a link to the talk notes.

[Mas1981]

Might retract what I said about titre testing giving a definite answer as to immunity. A talk last night held by an Internal Medicine Specialist said that actually they don't really know 100% that the titre levels we get back from the lab mean what we think they mean. ie. >1:80 is currently accepted as covered, however apparently they have seen dogs seroconvert levels to >1:160, so they're still learning about the whole titre level thing and it's not 100%.

I will update my topic in the vacc seminar with a basic run down on the talk and when its available, give a link to the talk notes.

Thanks Stormie, this is what my vet is worried about and i guess with valid reason, I am still undecided now as to whether to vaccinate. With the titre how often do you test them, is it just the once or is it yearly?

[Guest Tess32]

Might retract what I said about titre testing giving a definite answer as to immunity. A talk last night held by an Internal Medicine Specialist said that actually they don't really know 100% that the titre levels we get back from the lab mean what we think they mean. ie. >1:80 is currently accepted as covered, however apparently they have seen dogs seroconvert levels to >1:160, so they're still learning about the whole titre level thing and it's not 100%.

I will update my topic in the vacc seminar with a basic run down on the talk and when its available, give a link to the talk notes.

Hasn't that always been the case? I would have thought that titre levels would change constantly because different areas would have different exposure levels, so if they titred a dog that had just come across the virus, the levels would be much higher than usual?

I don't think they would ever be able to give an exact, 100% "you're dog is covered" answer unless they could measure the memory cells?

But still, all vaccination is going to do is boost the number of antibodies temporarily, isn't it already proven that once the dog has seroconverted, the titre levels would mostly drop back to normal in the absence of a threat anyway?

[stormie]

Tess what I mean is that it sounds like they don't actually know that the levels they have, mean immunity. The tests they've done involved exposing dogs to a certain amount of virus particles to learn about titre levels, but they don't know whether they are mimicking the number of particles they come across in the environment etc. They don't really know what is considered a 'high titre' because they are finding out new things all the time. So now, we think >1:80 is high, but further research might actually realise that it's quite low - they just don't know.

I don't think they know that once they have seroconverted, they are covered for life. Take the KC vaccine for example - they know that this really only lasts about 10months. So what's different about that vaccine to not cover them for life?

Keep in mind too that these vaccines don't actually prevent the disease. There are different levels of vaccines and only the Feline AIDS vaccine actually prevents the cats from contracting the disease. The Parvo vaccines still allow the disease to multiply within the dogs body but they don't become symptomatic.

I'm not saying don't titre, because I still would. But just keep in mind that this is all still new and there's still a lot they don't really know, so people need to be aware that whilst the labs currently say a titre of >1:80 is sufficient, new research may come about in the future to say something different.

[zayda_asher]

Jean Dodds says that if they show any titre level at all then they can mount a response.. it doesn't have to be at a certain amount, and that this level in the system will change depending on exposure etc.

I don't vaccinate, Mas, I have this uncomfortable discussion with our vet every annual check... I'm with our Derm on this one.

[Staranais]

I would titre test. That will tell you whether or not he needs the annual. Either he has immunity or he doesn't and if he does, it shouldn't matter if there's parvo around cause and the extra vacc will make no difference anyway.

Yup. Me too.

[Mas1981]

Jean Dodds says that if they show any titre level at all then they can mount a response.. it doesn't have to be at a certain amount, and that this level in the system will change depending on exposure etc.

I don't vaccinate, Mas, I have this uncomfortable discussion with our vet every annual check... I'm with our Derm on this one.

I do see his point but on the other hand I dont like to vaccinate, the only animal of mine I vaccinated annually etc was my old horse and that was because of agistment he had to have those etc but none of my other pets I have vaccinated anually, I did my cats before they left RSA as they needed to be done for quarantine laws and they had to be titre tested for rabies ( called something like RNN) but thats it! All of my other animals have never had a health concern and lived to ripe old ages.

[zayda_asher]

I do see his point but on the other hand I dont like to vaccinate, the only animal of mine I vaccinated annually etc was my old horse and that was because of agistment he had to have those etc but none of my other pets I have vaccinated anually, I did my cats before they left RSA as they needed to be done for quarantine laws and they had to be titre tested for rabies ( called something like RNN) but thats it! All of my other animals have never had a health concern and lived to ripe old ages.

My guys haven't been done since they were 1yr and 2yrs and they are around other dogs all the time, I think our "herd immunity" is good and they are very healthy At least we know he is discussing this with us because he really cares about our dogs!

I've been meaning to ask our derm if she has any more info on this we can pass on to vet... just haven't got around to it! So that might be something to do if you see / talk to her first... (let me know if she has any info!).

Edited August 10, 2010 by zayda_asher

[zayda_asher]

I believe also the best time to titre is in the week or two (not sure of exact time frame) after vaccination - then you see if the dog has mounted a good response... if they have done so, then you know they are covered. Dr Dodd's again, suggests that If they haven't mounted a good response then its an immune issue and they are a dog for whom boosters will not improve their immune response anyway (so no point to keep jabbing them).