Canine Blood Serum

[GoldenGirl85]

Yep - fatty blood looks more like a strawberry milkshake. When Orbit was sick with an upset tum with what we think was from a meal a bit too fatty, we took blood to run some tests and the blood we didn't use, once cooled, had a thick layer of white fat cooled on the surface - much like what you see on a baking dish after the meat etc you've cooked is cold...white lard

Isnt it disgusting? lol

The strawberry look comes from damaged red cells, they leak into the serum, if the red cells arent damaged it just looks like a vanilla milkshake

[anniek]

- much like what you see on a baking dish after the meat etc you've cooked is cold...white lard

I will never be able to look at my dogs the same way ever again!

[Erny]

Yep - that's what Mandela's looked like, although I didn't think the serum looked as yellow as in the picture. The clear part was just like gel.

The Vet didn't take quite enough blood to be able to satisfy the thyroid testing requirements, so needed to take some more from Mandela. When that bit was spun down and he pulled the serum off, the serum did seem more milky. I only got to glance at it as the Vet's hand was holding the tube with the spun down blood in that sample.

Gosh .... I'd love it if they could stop and explain what was what and what they were doing etc. so that I wouldn't regret not thinking to look at things more closely. I love having things explained, especially when it is about my own dog. But I know they don't have a lot of time and the Vet was already rushed.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Erny

[Erny]

wbc is white blood count

Pretty obvious now that you've answered . I should have been able to guess . Thanks, though.

[Erny]

OT ..... Gosh! Bloods were only drawn and sent Fed-Ex the day before yesterday and following the tracking system, I see they've already arrived in Memphis Tennessee and now departed the Fed-Ex port there, presumably on their way for delivery to Dr Dodds in California. Talk about fast!

[anniek]

Erny, if you like to study - this is excellent

linky

[Erny]

Thanks AnnieK. I already have the Pet Health Manual (and sometimes forget that), but wouldn't mind one two or three of the others as well. Although I can well imagine that some of the terminology in the more technical books may serve to confuse me.

[Erny]

OT ..... Gosh! Bloods were only drawn and sent Fed-Ex the day before yesterday and following the tracking system, I see they've already arrived in Memphis Tennessee and now departed the Fed-Ex port there, presumably on their way for delivery to Dr Dodds in California. Talk about fast!

Bloods were delivered by Fed-Ex to the point of destination this morning (Saturday)! They were only taken to Fed-Ex by me at about mid-day on Wednesday. That's fast going. Well done, Fed-Ex. This transaction was the best and smoothest transaction I've had with them, when it comes to blood serum delivery to the USA, yet.

[Staranais]

OT ..... Gosh! Bloods were only drawn and sent Fed-Ex the day before yesterday and following the tracking system, I see they've already arrived in Memphis Tennessee and now departed the Fed-Ex port there, presumably on their way for delivery to Dr Dodds in California. Talk about fast!

Bloods were delivered by Fed-Ex to the point of destination this morning (Saturday)! They were only taken to Fed-Ex by me at about mid-day on Wednesday. That's fast going. Well done, Fed-Ex. This transaction was the best and smoothest transaction I've had with them, when it comes to blood serum delivery to the USA, yet.

Let us know how it goes, I am really interested to hear what they find. Fingers crossed the results are helpful.

I have also been told that fasting hyperlipidaemia can be associated with hypothyroidism in dogs. It can also be associated with other disorders such as Cushings, DM, liver disease, pancreatitis, etc. I believe they like to take several fasting samples before getting excited about it, though. One sample doesn't really mean much, can just be a spurious result, e.g. if he managed to have a snack you didn't know about before the test.

[Erny]

Thanks Staranais. But what is "fasting hyperlipidaemia"?

It's besides the point, but there is no way he could have had a snack I didn't know about.

ETA: Last thyroid test he had was back when he was 10 months old. It was a bit young, as they don't normally suggest testing until a dog is 12 months or older. But because of the health issues that were present back then, we all agreed it might be worth conducting the test, regardless of his youth. The results came back reporting "excellent" thyroid levels. I'm running this second test just in case thyroid could still be an issue, but not detected due to his young age when first tested. He's now 2yo.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Erny

[Staranais]

Thanks Staranais. But what is "fasting hyperlipidaemia"?

It's besides the point, but there is no way he could have had a snack I didn't know about.

Oh I'm sorry Erny, hyperlipidaemia just means lots of fat in the blood (hyper = too much, lipid = fat, aemia = blood) after the dog has been fasted. Fat in the blood is totally normal after a meal, but not so normal if the dog has been fasted for a while.

If you can actually see it in the serum, I think it has to be actual fat (triglycerides), not cholesterol? Cholesterol is transparent, I believe.

Keep us posted!

[Erny]

Oh I'm sorry Erny ...

LOL .... don't worry, Star. I'm proud of the Vet you are becoming . Come over here. Share house with me. My dog will give you plenty of Veterinary practice . LOL

If you can actually see it in the serum, I think it has to be actual fat (triglycerides), not cholesterol? Cholesterol is transparent, I believe.

Ah ... ok. I think? It was clear and I'm not even sure the Vet knew it was 'fatty' (gel like) until he had trouble drawing it up with a syringe.

Keep us posted!

Certainly will do . And thanks for the explanation and interest.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Erny

[Staranais]

Oh I'm sorry Erny ...

LOL .... don't worry, Star. I'm proud of the Vet you are becoming . Come over here. Share house with me. My dog will give you plenty of Veterinary practice :D. LOL

Aw, thanks Erny.

I was actually seriously considering coming to Aussie in a few years, until one of the other vet students on DOL told me the pay was really bad over there, LOL. Perhaps I'll head to the states for a bit!

Ah ... ok. I think? It was clear and I'm not even sure the Vet knew it was 'fatty' (gel like) until he had trouble drawing it up with a syringe.

Oh, how interesting.

When I have seen animals with fat in the blood, the whole plasma/serum part of the blood looked cloudy instead of transparent (until you refrigerate it anyway, then the fat can separate off & look a bit funny).

If the thin cream layer between the serum and red blood cells looks thicker (the buffy coat) then that usually means more white blood cells than normal in the blood, suggesting inflammation.

If the serum was still clear but unusually viscous, then I honestly have no idea what it might be! So much to learn - so little time left to do it in *sigh*

[Erny]

Don't let it baffle you, Staranais. I didn't get a lot of chance to see the blood in the vial when it was spun down. It was mainly after the Vet had drawn off the serum that he then pointed out the fat/gel bit. So I probably have just glanced things and not properly understood what I was looking at. There was quite a lot of the fat - about half inch. According to the body blood work-up we've just done, red and white cell count are in the normal range. I don't know where abouts in the "normal" range. I'm going to ask for a copy of the results.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Erny

[Erny]

Full body blood work-up came in with "unremarkable" results.

Lead blood test came in as negative.

Iron came in as "slightly elevated" (sufficiently enough for the laboratory to suggest the Vet ask if Mandela could possibly have had access to rat bait poisoning - the answer to which is no, he could not have).

Interestingly, thyroid just came back today as well, and the interpreted results of that are :

"Thyroid levels are very low here, and likely contribute to his heavy metal exposure/detox. TgAA is normal, so this is not hypothyroidism from heritable thyroiditis."

<Sigh> .... why does one answer always lead me to at least one (if not more) more question?

If the thyroid issue is not a heritable one, what has caused the thyroid to dysfunction in the first place?

I have worked really hard since day dot at trying to work my way to the actual cause of Mandela's health woes and it seems to continue to elude me.

I'm just talking out loud. The Vet is going to everything together and then talk about this tomorrow - he's just about to start consulting now so he'll need some time to think/work through it.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Erny

[Staff'n'Toller]

I was wondering about your dog this week...whether you had the results back.

Do they say anything else about the thyroid? As in how you should treat it?

[anniek]

Have you thought about tryng kelp powder Erny? It is a very good natural "cure" for greyhounds with thyroid issues rather than using drugs.

[Erny]

Hi SnT and AnnieK.

The suggested thyroid treatment is fairly low dose Oroxine (or equivalent) - a re-check in about 6 weeks to make sure dosage is correct.

I will wait until the Vet calls me tomorrow to inform me of the recommended "plan of attack" so to speak. Dr. Carl Muller does acupuncture and works with Chinese Herbal medicines as well, so I'm sure he'll be open to entertaining the idea of Kelp Powder if he thinks that's the way to go.

But this puzzles me - Kelp Powder is an iron suppliment, isn't it? The laboratory (Australia) tested for Iron and found it to be elevated. So I wouldn't want to be increasing that even more, would I?

At the moment, I'm only glad that I insisted on the Thyroids being re-done and being sent through to Dr Jean Dodds in USA. Given his levels were reported as being "excellent" when he was a 10mo lad, it was very tempting to assume they'd be ok now.

Can thyroid affect digestive function? (That's another question I have in my head.) Or perhaps a dysfunctional digestive system is what has caused the thyroid dysfunction.

I won't dwell, LOL. It would send me .

Edited August 10, 2010 by Erny

[Staranais]

lts of that are :

"Thyroid levels are very low here, and likely contribute to his heavy metal exposure/detox. TgAA is normal, so this is not hypothyroidism from heritable thyroiditis."

<Sigh> .... why does one answer always lead me to at least one (if not more) more question?

If the thyroid issue is not a heritable one, what has caused the thyroid to dysfunction in the first place?

Very interesting. I'll love to hear what happens to Mr M's health (if anything) if you supplement the thyroid deficiency.

[Erny]

lts of that are :

"Thyroid levels are very low here, and likely contribute to his heavy metal exposure/detox. TgAA is normal, so this is not hypothyroidism from heritable thyroiditis."

<Sigh> .... why does one answer always lead me to at least one (if not more) more question?

If the thyroid issue is not a heritable one, what has caused the thyroid to dysfunction in the first place?

Very interesting. I'll love to hear what happens to Mr M's health (if anything) if you supplement the thyroid deficiency.

Oh gaaaaawd, Star - I kind of wish that thyroid will be the reason for his digestive (and other) woes and that simple supplementation will see the end to all the problems and I can get back to a dog who will eat anything, including bones, who will not need so much to eat just to maintain weight (he's only put on 1kg since he was 10mo .... weighed on different scales); who will no longer have to endure any skin issues; who will be more comfortable for a better functioning digestive system and who will not FART such fowl smelling farts as he does (this last being the least of my concerns).

Now, wouldn't THAT be lovely .