Show Dog Bite Judge

[keetin]

Sorry, off topic.

Just a general question and I'm not commenting on this case, it's just a question that sprung to mind while reading about this.

If a big black dog is hot and panting or any dog for that matter, and panting being the only way it can cool itself should we be asked to close the dogs mouth or hold it shut, aside from quickly showing scissor bite.

I always put a hand on the side of the dogs head to prevent it from looking around when the judge goes down the side or checks teslicles as a matter of courtesy. Many judges have checked my dogs heads on hot days while they are panting and they have put a hand either side of the dogs head while checking but I have never been told to hold their mouth closed or to close the mouth preventing a dog from panting.

I know it would probably only be held shut for a short time but owning a big black dog I am very aware at how hot they can get even when only standing in the ring for a short time especially when we are usually required in the ring during the hottest part of the day (as the luck of the alphabet has it)

Just thinking out loud about what we ask of our dogs sometimes

Cheers Lee

Just in reply to this Lee it was torrential rain and thunderstorms on the weekend of the show the ground was under water for 2 of the 3 days

[keetin]

Would all you experts explain to me how you get "Bitten" or grabbed by a 50kg. Rottweiler and have no marks' on your arm ? Did he have any teeth.? The judge appears to me to have problems with many dogs' if history is any indication.On the matter of the dogs' illness on the day, over the years i have seen and heard many dogs' at show with health problems, lameness, vomiting . and coughing, so dont' throw stones if you live in glass houses.This case has been handled very poorly and the next case could involve you!

I would like to know what you mean by your comment of 'The judge appears to me to have problems with many dogs' if history is any indication'

[OSoSwift]

My dog as a 9 month old went to Perth for the Breed Champ show. Within 2 days she was hospitalised on a drip. It took three days for her to become well enough to come home.

The dog should never have been in the ring in the first place as the risk to the other dogs was not acceptable.

The owner is an idiot and it was the likes of him that saw my bitch extremely unwell.

[OSoSwift]

Sorry double post

Edited October 26, 2010 by OSoSwift

[rotts4ever]

Sorry, off topic.

Just a general question and I'm not commenting on this case, it's just a question that sprung to mind while reading about this.

If a big black dog is hot and panting or any dog for that matter, and panting being the only way it can cool itself should we be asked to close the dogs mouth or hold it shut, aside from quickly showing scissor bite.

I always put a hand on the side of the dogs head to prevent it from looking around when the judge goes down the side or checks teslicles as a matter of courtesy. Many judges have checked my dogs heads on hot days while they are panting and they have put a hand either side of the dogs head while checking but I have never been told to hold their mouth closed or to close the mouth preventing a dog from panting.

I know it would probably only be held shut for a short time but owning a big black dog I am very aware at how hot they can get even when only standing in the ring for a short time especially when we are usually required in the ring during the hottest part of the day (as the luck of the alphabet has it)

Just thinking out loud about what we ask of our dogs sometimes

Cheers Lee

Just in reply to this Lee it was torrential rain and thunderstorms on the weekend of the show the ground was under water for 2 of the 3 days

That may have been the case, like I said just a general observation, but if a dog is panting regardless of the weather I wouldn't want to hold it's mouth shut and I have never been asked to by any judge to date. I have been asked to mouth my dog which is amusing when the judge has mouthed every other breed before mine themselves.

My comment was only general as I found it a strange thing to ask.

I must admit I have seen some other things I didn't find very smart over the years, Like a judge stradling my dog to go over him, another had two males facing each other (eye Balling) or the few that feel the need to tug on the tail. One year at Sydney Royal, in the male challenge class, the judge kept getting us to move closer to the dog in front and was getting quite cranky if a handler wasn't moving closer, in the end we had a line of male Rottweilers where you could hardly see where one stopped and the other began (and a few nervous people on the end of the leads). I have seen judges rush over to my Rotts from behind and go straight to the head or bend over with their faces very close to my dogs face in an act that from my dogs point of veiw could look like they are eye balling the dog.

I am confident of my dog's temperaments and always try to do what is asked of me in a ring but some things asked just lack common sense and no matter how good a dogs temperament some things asked are on the verge of setting them up to fail.

Don't get me wrong I am in no way judge bashing, most judges approach and handle the dogs in a safe manner but some don't and some are that worried about certain breeds they really should consider if they should be judging that breed at all.

I don't and will never defend having a sick dog at a show and that is not what my comment was about and I guess we could take it further by adding all the people that turn up to a show with a dog that appears healthy but they have some sickness doing the rounds through their kennels.

Cheers Lee

[Linda K]

guess that dogs are very lucky that the whole process like that even occurs in the first place - in the cat world, if a cat shows aggression or bit a judge, it will be declared unable to be handled (UTH), and banned for 3 months - no need for a committee to convene on this decision, it is part of the overall show rules that all our GCCFV shows run under.. For a second offence, it is then disqualified for life - no chances of appeal at all there. If they merely unable to be safely carried to the table or be handled sufficiently for judging, they may be declared unable to be judged (UTJ), this does not carry a suspension.

Whilst I am not a dog shower, I do show cats, and feel that the owner who showed such an appalling lack of judgment on showing a dog that was clearly sick just to get some points has taken his "hobby" that he does for "fun" way too far - nothing worse than someone forcing a sick animal onto the showbench and risking everyone else's cats or dogs then coming down with that illness too (and have seen it too in local and National shows), despite animals being vetted in (and also know of a fellow competitor who brought home ringworm from another exhibitors animal, who then had a horrible time for the next several months clearing up her own animals, quarantining them (so could not attend any shows herself or have her own cats on the bench) and trying to make her home spore free) Common sense at times does really seem to take a back seat to a title, or the idea that we might miss out since we have paid that entry fee anyway, but really, it is not worth it to risk a suspension if the animal lets the judge know in no uncertain terms that it does not want to be there.

[ellz]

Whatever anybody says about how the dog was handled by this particular judge on the day, the fact still remains that a) it wasn't well b) it was packed to the gills on Immodium BECAUSE it wasn't well c) it mouthed the judge d) it was dismissed from the ring.

It really doesn't matter whether a judge handles a dog correctly or not, NO dog should retaliate with a bite, whether intended aggressively or whether a "mouthing" action.

I daresay many of us who have been showing for a while have had our dogs pretty badly mishandled by some pretty ordinary judges and yet none of OUR dogs have responded in this manner....even when the judge has almost literally been "asking for it". By that I mean judges who for whatever reason decide to stare dogs down, or put their faces right up close to them, or pounce on them from behind with no warning....just to name a few scenarios.

Whatever the judge did, whatever the committee or DogsNSW did or didn't do....the fact is that the dog should NOT have been exhibited on the day and that is that. And yes, I like many others have shown dogs which were "slightly" under the weather, or which had suffered car sickness or were lame or which managed to injure themselves on poor ring surfaces, but I have NEVER exhibited a dog which has required medication to stop vomiting or diarrhoea. And I have NEVER exhibited a dog with a known communicable illness. That is just plain STUPIDITY on the part of the owner/handler. THAT is the real "issue" behind all of this....everything else is just smoke and mirrors.

[Aziah]

...It really doesn't matter whether a judge handles a dog correctly or not, NO dog should retaliate with a bite, whether intended aggressively or whether a "mouthing" action.

Nothing more to add, this says it all.

ETA: ( I know it contradicts my post above!) it's not like the judge handled the dog poorly.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Aziah

[Ashanali]

...It really doesn't matter whether a judge handles a dog correctly or not, NO dog should retaliate with a bite, whether intended aggressively or whether a "mouthing" action.

Nothing more to add, this says it all.

ETA: ( I know it contradicts my post above!) it's not like the judge handled the dog poorly.

I agree with everyone that the owner shouldn't have had the dog at a show but this post above doesn't sit well with me.

I have a nice scar on my arm from aiding a dog who was injured. Dog didn't bite me when I first had hands on (and inadvertently hurt dog), but dog certainly did bite me when I went close the second time. Dog was terrified I was going to hurt again and was simply in protection mode. It's normal for a dog to defend itself when it feels cornered.

It was all totally my doing. The dog gave me the warning signs and I didn't follow them. I do not blame the dog whatsoever as they were just protecting themselves against 'pain'.

[ellz]

...It really doesn't matter whether a judge handles a dog correctly or not, NO dog should retaliate with a bite, whether intended aggressively or whether a "mouthing" action.

Nothing more to add, this says it all.

ETA: ( I know it contradicts my post above!) it's not like the judge handled the dog poorly.

I agree with everyone that the owner shouldn't have had the dog at a show but this post above doesn't sit well with me.

I have a nice scar on my arm from aiding a dog who was injured. Dog didn't bite me when I first had hands on (and inadvertently hurt dog), but dog certainly did bite me when I went close the second time. Dog was terrified I was going to hurt again and was simply in protection mode. It's normal for a dog to defend itself when it feels cornered.

It was all totally my doing. The dog gave me the warning signs and I didn't follow them. I do not blame the dog whatsoever as they were just protecting themselves against 'pain'.

A dog in pain shouldn't be in the ring. A dog being shown, should be temperamentally sound and never be put in the position where it does feel "cornered". If a dog doesn't like being approached by strangers, or if a dog is sufficiently ill or injured that it takes the approach of a stranger as a threat....it shouldn't be in the ring.

[Aziah]

Again I agree with Ellz - a dog who is injured or in pain (and enough pain for it to bite someone touching it) should never be in the ring!

ETA: we are talking about a dog in the showring - not a dog at home or injured on the road or anywhere else.

Bottom line is owner should never have taken dog to show.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Aziah