Show Dog Bite Judge

[klink]

Sorry, off topic.

Just a general question and I'm not commenting on this case, it's just a question that sprung to mind while reading about this.

If a big black dog is hot and panting or any dog for that matter, and panting being the only way it can cool itself should we be asked to close the dogs mouth or hold it shut, aside from quickly showing scissor bite.

I always put a hand on the side of the dogs head to prevent it from looking around when the judge goes down the side or checks teslicles as a matter of courtesy. Many judges have checked my dogs heads on hot days while they are panting and they have put a hand either side of the dogs head while checking but I have never been told to hold their mouth closed or to close the mouth preventing a dog from panting.

I know it would probably only be held shut for a short time but owning a big black dog I am very aware at how hot they can get even when only standing in the ring for a short time especially when we are usually required in the ring during the hottest part of the day (as the luck of the alphabet has it)

Just thinking out loud about what we ask of our dogs sometimes

Cheers Lee

[klink]

Just a final comment on this topic, after having read all the comments re this topic, I still find it amazing that nobody feels that the denial of correct procedure, as regulated by dogs' nsw. for all affiliates to follow was as judged by the NSW Supreme court ruling was not followed. Never have I in any of my comments condoned an ill dog being shown, only the handling of the incident. I personally dont' care what the breed is or who the exhibitor is the regulations are not there as far as i know just to use paper. If Clubs' are unaware of these regulations they should take time to study and learn the correct procedure.

Another thing I find strange as a previous forum member mentioned is the judge asking to hold the dogs' mouth closed to reexamine the dogs' head after already having done so,particularly on a hot day in Feb. I have NEVER in 25plus years of showing large breeds been asked by any judge to hold my dogs' mouth closed so than can have another look.

Before you all jump in with all the usual comments re the showing of a dog that is ill,I will say again that I am only discussing the lack of correct procedure. simple! The result may well have been the same,I dont' know but I feel these incidents must be handled correctly. Tomorrow this could be you or myself in the same position, but wait I hear you all say it would never happen to me !

[yarracully]

Just a final comment on this topic, after having read all the comments re this topic, I still find it amazing that nobody feels that the denial of correct procedure, as regulated by dogs' nsw. for all affiliates to follow was as judged by the NSW Supreme court ruling was not followed.

In all fairness it could be argued that if correct procedure had not been followed then the hearing with the CC would be the place for this to be redressed. However since the decision was upheld by the CC then the actions of the club really don't count. Providing the CC followed procedure then the matter is dealt with accordingly.

[Danois]

The judgment stated it clearly - there was some procedural issues with the Bega Show Committee's declaration as the decision to declare aggressive was made before statements had been prepared (sounds like it had been verbally discussed). The (court) judge was of the view that the claimant was denied a fair hearing in front of the Show Committee Inquiry BUT that these were cured by the DogsNSW hearing which was the 'operative' decision (i.e. the one which the dog was banned for 6 months) and which heard all the evidence. (see para 93).

That aside, the dog should not have been in the ring if it was so unwell it was requiring that much imodium.

[raz]

Tomorrow this could be you or myself in the same position, but wait I hear you all say it would never happen to me !

Well it wouldnt happen to me because I'd never be downright dumb enough to take a sick dog into the ring. Either way it's done and dusted. Take it up with DogsNSW if you have a problem...which you obviously do so sort your grievance out with them.

[Jsk]

Tomorrow this could be you or myself in the same position, but wait I hear you all say it would never happen to me !

Well it wouldnt happen to me because I'd never be downright dumb enough to take a sick dog into the ring. Either way it's done and dusted. Take it up with DogsNSW if you have a problem...which you obviously do so sort your grievance out with them.

[asal]

in all this the talk is about the dog "biting" the judge.

ok i dont show. well havent for decades but i thought you cannot show a sick dog?

is that not just as much an issue if not more so? biting, mouthing call it what u like its not contagous the runs certainly can be, its still one of the symptons of parvo and corona?

and look at the heartbreak that introduced to grounds has caused.

was watching a episide of james herriot and in it he disqualified a dog with what? the runs.. it couldnt be exhibited in those days surely its the same now isnt it?

if it isnt it SURELY SHOULD BE.

Edited October 24, 2010 by asal

[Diva]

Yes asal, that point has been made many times in this thread, from page 1 onwards. The fact that the dog was exhibited with very bad diarrhoea is much more worrying to me than his behaviour in the ring - and as pf mentioned on page 10, it's against the rules.

I'm glad that the judge has no serious injury..

I don't know much about showing.. but I think it's wrong to show a dog who's isn't feeling well. Are those points really worth it?

CW its actually against CC rules to show a dog with an illness. The dog really shouldn't have been on the grounds.

[asal]

Yes asal, that point has been made many times in this thread, from page 1 onwards. The fact that the dog was exhibited with very bad diarrhoea is much more worrying to me than his behaviour in the ring - and as pf mentioned on page 10, it's against the rules.

I'm glad that the judge has no serious injury..

I don't know much about showing.. but I think it's wrong to show a dog who's isn't feeling well. Are those points really worth it?

CW its actually against CC rules to show a dog with an illness. The dog really shouldn't have been on the grounds.

sorry missed noticing, the owner is a worry

[Diva]

sorry missed noticing, the owner is a worry

Sure is, if he thinks showing a sick dog is OK.

[poodlefan]

sorry missed noticing, the owner is a worry

Agree. It's hard to fathom why klink thinks other exhibitors should feel sympathy OR unity with a person who's actions may have endangered other people's dogs.

[raz]

Yes asal, that point has been made many times in this thread, from page 1 onwards. The fact that the dog was exhibited with very bad diarrhoea is much more worrying to me than his behaviour in the ring

Well it's all the same thing really. Maybe the dog had a go at the judge because the poor bugger had been sick for days with tablets being 'shoved' down his throat and finally he had enough. I would have bitten the judge as well if I was that poorly.

Upshot is, the owner took it all the way to the Supreme Court and clogged up the list trying to justify being an imbecile. The dog should never have been in the ring in that state. If he'd pulled the dog from the ring for the weekend he'd be well on the way to grand champ at this point so he has no one to blame but himself. I hope it cost him a shitload in legals!

[Diva]

Yes asal, that point has been made many times in this thread, from page 1 onwards. The fact that the dog was exhibited with very bad diarrhoea is much more worrying to me than his behaviour in the ring

Well it's all the same thing really. Maybe the dog had a go at the judge because the poor bugger had been sick for days with tablets being 'shoved' down his throat and finally he had enough. I would have bitten the judge as well if I was that poorly.

Yep, agree entirely. The owner should have hit himself over the head for putting the dog and the judge in that position.

[Bisart Dobes]

It is against regulaions to exhibit a dog when it is sick. This dog was obviously sick and the owner has admitted as much. My question is was the owner / exhibitor taken to task and reported for exhibiting a sick dog under the regulations by the appropriate authority ? If not - why the hell not !!!

[WreckitWhippet]

It is against regulaions to exhibit a dog when it is sick. This dog was obviously sick and the owner has admitted as much. My question is was the owner / exhibitor taken to task and reported for exhibiting a sick dog under the regulations by the appropriate authority ? If not - why the hell not !!!

If that was the excuse used as to why the dog was not feeling itself and resulted in the judge reporting it, then hell yeah, take the owner to task on that one too.

If he was sick, he shouldn't have been on the grounds, let alone in the ring.

[Aussienot]

I do think this is a timely reminder for all show committees to brush up on the fair handling of aggression complaints (thanks poodlefan). The Bega team tried, but seemed to be a bit unprepared.

The actions of the trial committee may only be a preliminary filter, but if they do their jobs right (due process, fair treatment, documentation), it makes the Kennel Club's process easier. There are some massive egos in the show world, so kid gloves should be in every show committe's toolkit.

[ellz]

What it boils down to is that regardless of which owner has their knickers in a twist, or who was at fault, or which committee made errors in procedure or whatever...the fact is that NONE of it would have been needed had the dog not appeared to show unacceptable aggression to a judge. And this perhaps would not have happened if the dog had been fit and healthy and feeling well in himself.

So probably the lesson to all of us "so that it doesn't happen to us" is to exercise our common sense and keep sick dogs out of the ring! If ANY dog requires Immodium to stop diarrhoea or has been sick for 3 days prior to a show, then surely it would make more sense to leave the dog at home.

[raz]

So probably the lesson to all of us "so that it doesn't happen to us" is to exercise our common sense and keep sick dogs out of the ring! If ANY dog requires Immodium to stop diarrhoea or has been sick for 3 days prior to a show, then surely it would make more sense to leave the dog at home.

Gee you'd think so but obviously not, ellz. Makes you scratch your head, doesnt it.

[ellz]

So probably the lesson to all of us "so that it doesn't happen to us" is to exercise our common sense and keep sick dogs out of the ring! If ANY dog requires Immodium to stop diarrhoea or has been sick for 3 days prior to a show, then surely it would make more sense to leave the dog at home.

Gee you'd think so but obviously not, ellz. Makes you scratch your head, doesnt it.

It does. I used to think I'd seen everything.......but surprisingly there are some out there who do still seem to have the ability to amaze!

[FranVT]

Interesting thread. If my dog caught a gastro bug because someone brought a sick dog to a show / trial I'd be very, very cross.