Show Dog Bite Judge

[poodlefan]

Oops

Damn - Santa was here and I missed him.

Edited October 22, 2010 by poodlefan

[ellz]

Oops

Damn - Santa was here and I missed him.

Story of my life really!

[Jsk]

On the matter of the dogs' illness on the day, over the years i have seen and heard many dogs' at show with health problems, lameness, vomiting . and coughing, so dont' throw stones if you live in glass houses.This case has been handled very poorly and the next case could involve you!

Yep and those people who have shown dogs that are sick need there bums kicked for it! Just like Swanee's idiot owner!! I dont live in a glass house but I am a "die hard" show person I love showing and have done so since I was 5 yrs old. BUT even I have gotten to a triplw show almost 4 hours away, it has been stinking hot. The first day of shows the afghan I had wasnt enjoying the show because of the heat so back in the car air con blasting and I drove home! My dog wasnt even sick but because he could have become sick because of the heat i took him home.

Don't own a Rottie named Swanee do you klink?

Yes I'm wondering the same thing!!

Oops

Damn - Santa was here and I missed him.

Hmmm Santa was quick to delete ......... me thinks Santa said something not very christmassy and realised he was posting as Santa ;)

Bad Santa

The question that I have is:

Why didnt Glenn Smith take Swanee home when he was sick?? Or even better why didnt he simply stay home and miss that weekend of showing?? After all if he had of done that theres a good chance that swanee would have missed just that weekend of showing, so 3 shows instead of 30 odd shows.

[Rileys mum]

There is nothing more unacceptable than someone trying to justify an agressive dogs behaviour.

I think the judge did the right thing in reporting it. As has been said previous..... The dog in question clearly was unwell and unhappy and let the judge know this with a warning ( witnessed by others) Don't need blood or marks for it to be a bite.

The poor dog... The last thing it needed was to be in a show ring getting examined.

Wish the owner would take some responsibility n stop blaming everyone else. Quite pathetic if u ask me.

Big thumbs up to the magistrate with some common sense.

[Aziah]

JSK - I agree, Swanee's owner knew he was ill prior to leaving for the shows, he should have stayed at home!

I saw a dog just the other weekend in the ring with terrible diarrhoea and straining for a long period after...the handler should have taken the dog from the ring but no...it was shown AND that judge then handled other dogs right through the classes.

People will NEVER stop, they just cannot help themselves

[Fit for a King]

yarracully - maybe the owner thought the dog's potential grand might suffer because word would leak out (and it certainly has now thanks to the owner himself) about potential temperament issues and future judges may treat the dog with caution. This SHOULDN'T happen as the dog should be judged impartially on the day but maybe that's what the owner's beef was.....

But based on the facts AS WE KNOW THEM - I'm in agreeance with the CCC, the judge and the courts...absolutely the right call.....

[poodlefan]

JSK - I agree, Swanee's owner knew he was ill prior to leaving for the shows, he should have stayed at home!

I saw a dog just the other weekend in the ring with terrible diarrhoea and straining for a long period after...the handler should have taken the dog from the ring but no...it was shown AND that judge then handled other dogs right through the classes.

People will NEVER stop, they just cannot help themselves

And they leave the show fancy wide open to claims of animal abuse - which IMO some of their behaviour IS.

[asal]

JSK - I agree, Swanee's owner knew he was ill prior to leaving for the shows, he should have stayed at home!

I saw a dog just the other weekend in the ring with terrible diarrhoea and straining for a long period after...the handler should have taken the dog from the ring but no...it was shown AND that judge then handled other dogs right through the classes.

People will NEVER stop, they just cannot help themselves

And they leave the show fancy wide open to claims of animal abuse - which IMO some of their behaviour IS.

worse than that too. how many remember all the dogs that died after being shown at a particular venue?

think it was about 4 years ago now? not sure have to admit.

Nancy gate turned to me and said "this is the last show i will ever go too. your husbands right. Look at that?" i looked where she pointed and there in a pen were three.. or was it four. anyway Pug puppies spewwing bloody diroeea into the grass.

Nancy said 'they have parvo, i would bet on it" That show was i think in early october. the next show was the beginning of a number of breeders dogs comming down with parvo after the subsequent shows. I do know one family ws blamed for taking a sick dog but it wasnt the family with the pugs named, i know that for sure.

i believe it continued till i was told anyway the grounds were disinfected. although how you disinfect soil i do not have a clue.

I wont name names but a number of people i know lost dogs and puppies after subesequent shows. so sad and so unnecessary.

my hubby is a fanatic and believes taking your dog to a show is simply taking it to pick up and bring home every pathogen available floating round the grounds back to those at home. soo i am banned from showing for some odd reason.

Edited October 22, 2010 by asal

[poodlefan]

worse than that too. how many remember all the dogs that died after being shown at a particular venue?

think it was about 4 years ago now? not sure have to admit.

I can recall an agility dog dying of Coronavirus and some parvo cases after different Spring Fairs at Erkky Park.

I think its entirely possible to bring a dog incubating an infectious disease onto showgrounds without realising it - dogs can be asymptomatic.

To bring a clearly unwell dog onto a show ground is to disregard the health of that dog and the safety of all others. Personally I'd like to see a few more exhibitors kicked into touch for it. Some will hunt points at all costs. Perhaps a few suspensions might make folk reflect on that attitude.

[Stolzseinrotts]

I think its entirely possible to bring a dog incubating an infectious disease onto showgrounds without realising it - dogs can be asymptomatic.

To bring a clearly unwell dog onto a show ground is to disregard the health of that dog and the safety of all others. Personally I'd like to see a few more exhibitors kicked into touch for it. Some will hunt points at all costs. Perhaps a few suspensions might make folk reflect on that attitude.

OT - I agree that Exhibitors should be held accountable for their actions at all times. Sadly as we know we don't see these offenders getting suspensions as they should.

These offenders are happy to continue on their merry ignorant way. It brings us ALL down by those that offend in such a manner with no regards to anybody else.

I am personally sick of being tarred with that brush and highly embarassed by the arrogance and ignorance of those small minded, must win at all costs, sheep station, bounty hunters!

You do the wrong thing than you should learn by it and do the time so to speak........................sadly not all will learn nor want to learn.......

[klink]

I am amazed at the response to my mail re the incident with the Rottweiler at Bega. Whilst everybody does not want sick dogs' at shows you all seem to be missing the point of the court case. The hearing into the incident was conducted contary to the regulations set down by dogs' NSW. If you take the time to read the judgement transcipt the judge makes reference to the handling of the matter by the club involved. This is irrespective of the health of the said dog at the time. Correct procedure was not carried out.This same mistake and or flouting of the regulations may have affected many other people who perhaps have not been as dedicated to obtaining a correct hearing. As an earlier member asked ,I do own Rottweilers and have done for 25years and my name is not Glenn Smith. The trouble with the dog scene is that everyone does' their own thing and seems oblivious to any other problems. Its' about time we all stood up and were counted instead of just burying our heads in the sand because its' not your breed. Incidently, I have not been aware of any comments' or support from within Glenns' own breed clubs.

[Silvawilow]

There is nothing more unacceptable than someone trying to justify an agressive dogs behaviour.

I think the judge did the right thing in reporting it. As has been said previous..... The dog in question clearly was unwell and unhappy and let the judge know this with a warning ( witnessed by others) Don't need blood or marks for it to be a bite.

The poor dog... The last thing it needed was to be in a show ring getting examined.

Wish the owner would take some responsibility n stop blaming everyone else. Quite pathetic if u ask me.

Big thumbs up to the magistrate with some common sense.

[poodlefan]

I am amazed at the response to my mail re the incident with the Rottweiler at Bega. Whilst everybody does not want sick dogs' at shows you all seem to be missing the point of the court case. The hearing into the incident was conducted contary to the regulations set down by dogs' NSW. If you take the time to read the judgement transcipt the judge makes reference to the handling of the matter by the club involved. This is irrespective of the health of the said dog at the time. Correct procedure was not carried out.This same mistake and or flouting of the regulations may have affected many other people who perhaps have not been as dedicated to obtaining a correct hearing. As an earlier member asked ,I do own Rottweilers and have done for 25years and my name is not Glenn Smith. The trouble with the dog scene is that everyone does' their own thing and seems oblivious to any other problems. Its' about time we all stood up and were counted instead of just burying our heads in the sand because its' not your breed. Incidently, I have not been aware of any comments' or support from within Glenns' own breed clubs.

Ah yes, here's the appeal for us to all circle our wagons because "we" must all stand together. Sorry but one dog got suspended here and very appropriately IMO. I'll stand up and be counted as one who supports the right of judges to detemine when a dog has behaved aggressively toward them and to excuse them from the ring.

I dont' stand shoulder to shoulder with exhibitors who, in my opinion, have done the wrong thing. That dog should never have been in the ring. It may well have put other exhibitors dogs at risk. If it had been pulled it would never have been suspended.

Perhaps you missed my post where I recommended that CC reps read the judgement so that they wouldn't make the mistakes the Club made on the day.

The point of the court case is crystal clear. The appeal on procedural matters FAILED. The facts are that a dog that had been unwell for some days, that resisted handling and THEN mouthed the judge was suspended. I don't see how procedural errors by the club influence the facts or the outcome in any way. Clearly the magistrate also held that view.

Breed has NOTHING to do with this so you can put that card away. I fail to see how this is in any way amounts to a travesty of justice.

I'll ask again. Exactly what part of this dog mouthing the judge do you find acceptable? Do you think dogs with severe diahorrea should be in the show ring?

FYI I know of one incident of quite severe unprovoked aggression that was tossed out by DogsNSW because the club had not followed procedure. So it can happen.

Edited October 22, 2010 by poodlefan

[Ashanali]

The dog should have been taken home.

I was at the Ekka a couple of years ago and suddenly one of my dogs started having gastro issues. He had obviously had a sudden onset of a bug and it was bad. I had to kick and scream a little but the powers that be ended up letting me take the dog home to get him better. (and he was fine to go back in a couple of days later... he must have eaten something bad).

Common sense. No matter what show it is, it's just not worth it.

[shihtzufan]

The dog should have been taken home.

I was at the Ekka a couple of years ago and suddenly one of my dogs started having gastro issues. He had obviously had a sudden onset of a bug and it was bad. I had to kick and scream a little but the powers that be ended up letting me take the dog home to get him better. (and he was fine to go back in a couple of days later... he must have eaten something bad).

Common sense. No matter what show it is, it's just not worth it.

where you at the Ekka this year by any chance

[Jsk]

No way do I want to be counted if it is standing up for Glen Smith! His dog mouthed a judge not on!! But even more despicable is that he Glen smith knew that Swanee was ill but still took him to the show regardless

I am amazed at the response to my mail re the incident with the Rottweiler at Bega. Whilst everybody does not want sick dogs' at shows you all seem to be missing the point of the court case. The hearing into the incident was conducted contary to the regulations set down by dogs' NSW. If you take the time to read the judgement transcipt the judge makes reference to the handling of the matter by the club involved. This is irrespective of the health of the said dog at the time. Correct procedure was not carried out.This same mistake and or flouting of the regulations may have affected many other people who perhaps have not been as dedicated to obtaining a correct hearing. As an earlier member asked ,I do own Rottweilers and have done for 25years and my name is not Glenn Smith. The trouble with the dog scene is that everyone does' their own thing and seems oblivious to any other problems. Its' about time we all stood up and were counted instead of just burying our heads in the sand because its' not your breed. Incidently, I have not been aware of any comments' or support from within Glenns' own breed clubs.

Ah yes, here's the appeal for us to all circle our wagons because "we" must all stand together. Sorry but one dog got suspended here and very appropriately IMO. I'll stand up and be counted as one who supports the right of judges to detemine when a dog has behaved aggressively toward them and to excuse them from the ring.

I dont' stand shoulder to shoulder with exhibitors who, in my opinion, have done the wrong thing. That dog should never have been in the ring. It may well have put other exhibitors dogs at risk. If it had been pulled it would never have been suspended.

Perhaps you missed my post where I recommended that CC reps read the judgement so that they wouldn't make the mistakes the Club made on the day.

The point of the court case is crystal clear. The appeal on procedural matters FAILED. The facts are that a dog that had been unwell for some days, that resisted handling and THEN mouthed the judge was suspended. I don't see how procedural errors by the club influence the facts or the outcome in any way. Clearly the magistrate also held that view.

Breed has NOTHING to do with this so you can put that card away. I fail to see how this is in any way amounts to a travesty of justice.

I'll ask again. Exactly what part of this dog mouthing the judge do you find acceptable? Do you think dogs with severe diahorrea should be in the show ring?

FYI I know of one incident of quite severe unprovoked aggression that was tossed out by DogsNSW because the club had not followed procedure. So it can happen.

Poodlefan

[Ashanali]

The dog should have been taken home.

I was at the Ekka a couple of years ago and suddenly one of my dogs started having gastro issues. He had obviously had a sudden onset of a bug and it was bad. I had to kick and scream a little but the powers that be ended up letting me take the dog home to get him better. (and he was fine to go back in a couple of days later... he must have eaten something bad).

Common sense. No matter what show it is, it's just not worth it.

where you at the Ekka this year by any chance

yes, as were many people. I fail to see what that has to do with anything when the issue with my dog happened years ago?

[yarracully]

yarracully - maybe the owner thought the dog's potential grand might suffer because word would leak out (and it certainly has now thanks to the owner himself) about potential temperament issues and future judges may treat the dog with caution. This SHOULDN'T happen as the dog should be judged impartially on the day but maybe that's what the owner's beef was.....

But based on the facts AS WE KNOW THEM - I'm in agreeance with the CCC, the judge and the courts...absolutely the right call.....

Not doubting the decision in the slightest. The dog if it was unwell should not have been shown. The owner knowing the dog was unwell should not have put it in the position. And the judge had every right to report for the actions as they occured. We once travelled over 500k's for a show, arriving two days earlier, we had a dog that was off and under advice from the vet gave it treatment and on the day of the show the dog was OK. But having said that if the dog had not recovered it would not have been shown.

But I still fail to see how its chances of the title are damaged. When the dog goes in the ring under any other judge neither the dog or the owner should be identified. So even though we all know his name and the dogs name if you were the judge at a future show and a dog is presented to you, you should not know who the dog or the owner are. So in reality its chances of titling have not been deminished or damaged in any way. Although he himself has actually identified himself and his dog by certain statements provided in court.

In other words the judge should not know who I or even you, Fit For a King, are and so his reputation does not come into it. Unless he likes to follow certain judges for some reason.

As far as I can see by the owners own claim in court he has done more damage to his reputation than the judge, show committee, CCC, and courts did.

Also in court evidence it was mentioned that the judge themselves stated they had no doubt the dog would pass a temperment test. But on the day involved it was not to be.

However upon reading up on the final verdict of the report there seems to be a lot of misdirected blame for various reasons

[rotts4ever]

Sorry, off topic.

Just a general question and I'm not commenting on this case, it's just a question that sprung to mind while reading about this.

If a big black dog is hot and panting or any dog for that matter, and panting being the only way it can cool itself should we be asked to close the dogs mouth or hold it shut, aside from quickly showing scissor bite.

I always put a hand on the side of the dogs head to prevent it from looking around when the judge goes down the side or checks teslicles as a matter of courtesy. Many judges have checked my dogs heads on hot days while they are panting and they have put a hand either side of the dogs head while checking but I have never been told to hold their mouth closed or to close the mouth preventing a dog from panting.

I know it would probably only be held shut for a short time but owning a big black dog I am very aware at how hot they can get even when only standing in the ring for a short time especially when we are usually required in the ring during the hottest part of the day (as the luck of the alphabet has it)

Just thinking out loud about what we ask of our dogs sometimes

Cheers Lee

[Jsk]

At the end of the day it simply comes down to the idiot owner should NOT of had Swanee at that show because he was sick.

One thing I am curious about is:

As the 6 months suspenssion is over as of 2 months ago has Swanee since passed the temperament test and is he back in the ring?

And I think Glenn smith is damned lucky he didnt have his arse nailed to the wall for showing a sick dog because DogsNSW (??) Could have very easily done that too!!

Edited October 23, 2010 by JSK