Show Dog Bite Judge

[W Sibs]

Show dog bite Judge

THE owner of a champion Rottweiler has applied to the Supreme Court for a judicial review after his dog was banned from dog shows for biting a judge.

Glenn Smith claims the reputation of his two-year-old Rottweiler, Swanee, who competes under the name "Fast N Furious,'' is at risk of damage after Dogs NSW deemed him ``aggressive'' and disqualified him from competitions for six months.

The ban came after an incident at the Bega Show in February, when Swanee - an Australian champion - was found guilty of biting judge Yanina Smith (no relation to Mr Smith) on the forearm as she examined his head.

But Mr Smith, who on the judge's instructions was holding the dog's mouth shut at the time, claims Swanee didn't bite her but merely moved his head quickly towards her arm.

The court heard no teeth marks or blood were found on the judge's arm after the alleged bite, however she reported the incident to the show's committee and Swanee was instantly disqualified and removed from the show ring.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

In stating his case to the committee, Mr Smith, from Canberra, said Swanee was suffering from a bad case of diarrhoea and he had given him Imodium tablets earlier and was holding his mouth closed to make him swallow the medication which ``put him in a defensive position.''

A separate hearing by Dogs NSW upheld the committee's decision, resulting in Swanee's six-month ban and jeopardising his chances of being named a ``grand champion.''

It is understood Swanee needs 1000 points to reach this elite status and had amassed 456 points when he was ousted.

Before being allowed back into competitions, he must pass a temperament test set by Dogs NSW.

Mr Smith's lawyer, Douglas Knagg, argued the Bega Show's committee did not abide by Dogs NSW regulations in coming to the view that Swanee was aggressive.

Mr Knagg said contrary to the rules, the correct committee members were not present to make such a decision and his client was not given an appropriate right of reply.

His claims were refuted by barrister Margaret Allars for Dogs NSW, who said the regulations were not enforcable by law and were provided simply as guidelines for clubs.

Associate Justice Joanne Harrison has reserved her decision.

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I just read this and found it interesting...

Edited August 2, 2010 by CW EW

[ellz]

For those of you who were interested in this topic originally prior to Troy locking it .....

I spoke to Yanina Smith on Wednesday about this incident with the Rottweiler.

She actually showed me what she did to the dog just prior to the bite occurring and no, it didn't break the skin or leave a mark or anything else but it WAS an aggressive "overture" and as it was witnessed by the steward and other people around the ring, under ANKC rules it had to be reported. The dog was panting and had his mouth open when she moved up to him to judge his head so she moved her hand towards his face and asked his handler to close his mouth, whereupon she took the head in her hand and he apparently then took his head out of her head, swung it around and clamped her forearm with his jaws on either side. It did not use a lot of force but there was definitely an unhappy dog look about it and she did feel it serious enough to be classified as a bite.

She said that, in her opinion, the dog concerned would have had no trouble passing a temperament test after the incident and he really was a nice boy.

Yanina said that even with the bite aside, something about which she wasn't even overly concerned, her biggest issue was with the exhibition of a sick dog who would have probably been a whole lot happier left at home on a hot day rather than being dragged around a show ring.

And she has heard nothing more for quite a few months about this either and has no knowledge at this stage of the outcome.

[sas]

For those of you who were interested in this topic originally prior to Troy locking it .....

I spoke to Yanina Smith on Wednesday about this incident with the Rottweiler.

She actually showed me what she did to the dog just prior to the bite occurring and no, it didn't break the skin or leave a mark or anything else but it WAS an aggressive "overture" and as it was witnessed by the steward and other people around the ring, under ANKC rules it had to be reported. The dog was panting and had his mouth open when she moved up to him to judge his head so she moved her hand towards his face and asked his handler to close his mouth, whereupon she took the head in her hand and he apparently then took his head out of her head, swung it around and clamped her forearm with his jaws on either side. It did not use a lot of force but there was definitely an unhappy dog look about it and she did feel it serious enough to be classified as a bite.

She said that, in her opinion, the dog concerned would have had no trouble passing a temperament test after the incident and he really was a nice boy.

Yanina said that even with the bite aside, something about which she wasn't even overly concerned, her biggest issue was with the exhibition of a sick dog who would have probably been a whole lot happier left at home on a hot day rather than being dragged around a show ring.

And she has heard nothing more for quite a few months about this either and has no knowledge at this stage of the outcome.

Are you allowed to discuss such things if it's in court?

In addition, this is just her side of the story, not nececssary what actaully happened.

[poodlefan]

The matter has been heard and decided.

For those interested, a copy of the decision is here,

Score one for Dogs NSW. Exhibitor shouldn't have had a dog with the runs in the ring in the first place IMO.

Edited October 21, 2010 by poodlefan

[ellz]

For those of you who were interested in this topic originally prior to Troy locking it .....

I spoke to Yanina Smith on Wednesday about this incident with the Rottweiler.

She actually showed me what she did to the dog just prior to the bite occurring and no, it didn't break the skin or leave a mark or anything else but it WAS an aggressive "overture" and as it was witnessed by the steward and other people around the ring, under ANKC rules it had to be reported. The dog was panting and had his mouth open when she moved up to him to judge his head so she moved her hand towards his face and asked his handler to close his mouth, whereupon she took the head in her hand and he apparently then took his head out of her head, swung it around and clamped her forearm with his jaws on either side. It did not use a lot of force but there was definitely an unhappy dog look about it and she did feel it serious enough to be classified as a bite.

She said that, in her opinion, the dog concerned would have had no trouble passing a temperament test after the incident and he really was a nice boy.

Yanina said that even with the bite aside, something about which she wasn't even overly concerned, her biggest issue was with the exhibition of a sick dog who would have probably been a whole lot happier left at home on a hot day rather than being dragged around a show ring.

And she has heard nothing more for quite a few months about this either and has no knowledge at this stage of the outcome.

Are you allowed to discuss such things if it's in court?

In addition, this is just her side of the story, not nececssary what actaully happened.

Yes I am allowed to discuss this. And I asked Troy to unlock the thread and he complied so I would imagine he has no issues about it being discussed.

And it may only be "her side of the story" but as she was the judge involved, one would think that "her side of the story" would be rather important....don't you?

[ellz]

Score one for Dogs NSW. Exhibitor shouldn't have had a dog with the runs in the ring in the first place IMO.

Exactly. And that is what Yanina said as well.

Aside from the dog feeling off colour and possibly out of sorts, it was also exposing other dogs to the possibility of illness as well.

[poodlefan]

Actually all dog show committee folk and CC reps would do well to read that judgement - holes in the process of conducting the inquiry on the day were identified.

Edited October 21, 2010 by poodlefan

[whippets]

poor dog, poor judge, idiot owner.

[W Sibs]

I'm glad that the judge has no serious injury..

I don't know much about showing.. but I think it's wrong to show a dog who's isn't feeling well. Are those points really worth it?

[poodlefan]

I'm glad that the judge has no serious injury..

I don't know much about showing.. but I think it's wrong to show a dog who's isn't feeling well. Are those points really worth it?

CW its actually against CC rules to show a dog with an illness. The dog really shouldn't have been on the grounds.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

The matter has been heard and decided.

For those interested, a copy of the decision is here,[/url

I love a judge with a sense of humour:

On 4 February 2010, Swanee began experiencing very bad diarrhoea. Mr Smith administered Imodium tablets to him. Unsurprisingly, Swanee did not appreciate this.

ETA if not obvious from the context, I'm referring to a judge presiding over a court case, not a show judge!

Edited October 22, 2010 by SkySoaringMagpie

[yarracully]

I'm curious how such an incident could "Jeopardise his dogs chance of becoming a grand champion". Apart from a spell from the ring, which would probably benefit the dog (I know mine are always better after a spell) there is no other reason why this dog could not obtain this title.

Except if it isn't good enough in which case this matter would not be the only reason it won't get titled and would have no affect.

We have found with many of our dogs that after a period of constant showing the seem to get bored with it. So we spell them from the ring for a few weeks and when they come back they are all excited and rearing to go.

[W Sibs]

I'm glad that the judge has no serious injury..

I don't know much about showing.. but I think it's wrong to show a dog who's isn't feeling well. Are those points really worth it?

CW its actually against CC rules to show a dog with an illness. The dog really shouldn't have been on the grounds.

oh

what a stupid owner.

[Christina]

Silly dog owner.

How to win friends & influence people. Not

Would have been better to accept what the CC wanted & show later.

Every judge will now know who this dog & owner are.

Without the fuss it may have been forgotten in 6 months.

[ellz]

Kicking up a fuss was certainly a very expensive exercise for him considering he had to pay all costs! Not to mention what it may have done to his reputation.

Yanina said quite plainly that she has little doubt that the dog would have definitely passed a temperament test but she had to judge on the day and on the day, the dog was not himself.

The owner is silly for not accepting that "every dog has his day" and just moving on. And even sillier for showing a dog that was ill. He's lucky there wasn't action taken against him by DogsNSW for that in itself.

[klink]

Would all you experts explain to me how you get "Bitten" or grabbed by a 50kg. Rottweiler and have no marks' on your arm ? Did he have any teeth.? The judge appears to me to have problems with many dogs' if history is any indication.On the matter of the dogs' illness on the day, over the years i have seen and heard many dogs' at show with health problems, lameness, vomiting . and coughing, so dont' throw stones if you live in glass houses.This case has been handled very poorly and the next case could involve you!

[poodlefan]

Would all you experts explain to me how you get "Bitten" or grabbed by a 50kg. Rottweiler and have no marks' on your arm ? Did he have any teeth.? The judge appears to me to have problems with many dogs' if history is any indication.On the matter of the dogs' illness on the day, over the years i have seen and heard many dogs' at show with health problems, lameness, vomiting . and coughing, so dont' throw stones if you live in glass houses.This case has been handled very poorly and the next case could involve you!

Dog grabs with mouth but doesn't bite down - bite inhibition at work. Good boy Swanee - you gave a warning that you were not happy. Had the judge persisted rather than sending you from the ring, you might well have been facing a life ban for a PROPER bite. What part of a 50kg dog (or any dog) grabbing a judges arm in its mouth do you find acceptable klink?

The fact that other people care to risk the health of their dogs and their fellow exhibitors dogs with potentially infectious illnesses hardly makes what this person did appropriate. It is also a clear breach of CC rules that, by the way, the exhibitor appears to have escaped unscathed from. As this judgement contains clear evidence of this breach, IMO the exhibitor should count his blessings he's not suspended as well.

The next case certainly won't involve me because:

* I would never show a dog that had had the runs for several days. From the judgement:

On 4 February 2010, Swanee began experiencing very bad diarrhoea.

So this is Day 3 of this condition and the dog is still in the ring. Wonderful NOT. My dog would be visiting a vet, not a dog show. This wasn't a case of a dog ill on the day but for three days. The poor bugger had had two Imodium tablets that morning. Exhibitor should probably thank his lucky stars the dog didnt' collapse from dehydration or heat stress.

* I know how to get a tablet down a dog's throat without having to forcefully hold its muzzle to get it to swallow.

* If my dog grabbed a judges arm in its mouth, I'd be counting my blessings that it wasn't banned for longer and accepting the suspension.

Don't own a Rottie named Swanee do you klink?

Edited October 22, 2010 by poodlefan

[ellz]

Would all you experts explain to me how you get "Bitten" or grabbed by a 50kg. Rottweiler and have no marks' on your arm ? Did he have any teeth.? The judge appears to me to have problems with many dogs' if history is any indication.On the matter of the dogs' illness on the day, over the years i have seen and heard many dogs' at show with health problems, lameness, vomiting . and coughing, so dont' throw stones if you live in glass houses.This case has been handled very poorly and the next case could involve you!

Hmmmmm.....I've known the judge for 24 years....I've seen her handle many, many dogs in many different capacities so I'd love to know where this "history" is coming from?????

She said that the dog did not appear aggressive. She said the dog did not bite her hard and she also told me on Wednesday that the dog essentially "mouthed" her arm. And she said that she really did believe that the dog would pass any subsequent temperament test. BUT...the rules state quite clearly that the dog does not even NEED to bite hard, leave a mark or draw blood, just the "act" of aggression is enough and a dog which has a person's forearm in his mouth with no apparent cause is, under the rules, acting aggressively.

The only person who has handled the case poorly was the owner....perhaps you klink????.....and if this is your dog klink, then you need to get over it and move on.

[ellz]

I will also state here, that I value the temperaments of my dogs, whatever the breed. I would NOT have a dog which had displayed unprovoked aggression towards a human in my house.

ANY dog of ANY breed that displays abnormal or excessive aggression or unprovoked aggression towards a human goes straight to doG!

[Secret Santa]

Oops

Edited October 22, 2010 by Secret Santa 2010