Pregnant Lab Girl Found!

[Moselle]

FFS Greytmate, I would never have figured you to be so deliberately stupid, obtuse or whatever it is that you are being.

OK, my offer is withdrawn, happy now?

Apparently you know more about me and my motives and intentions than I do. I hope the poor girl is healthy and that the rest of her pregnancy is trouble free and that whomever whelps the litter and DISPOSES of the puppies meets with your esteemed approval.

NOBODY was talking about breaking laws or stepping on toes. All I was offering was a solution, temporary or otherwise and a means of getting a healthy outcome if possible for bitch and pups.

I couldn't have cared less if the bitch was sent to me for whelping and then she and the pups were sent back to wherever.....the prospect of money was never in my thoughts.....although apparently according to you, it was paramount.

No wonder people are reluctant to step up to the plate. I sure as hell won't make the same mistake again.

It is sad that you are withdrawing your offer to help; if only there were more people like yourself. Don't concern yourself with what is being assumed; you know your intentions were genuine in trying to help and not for financial gains so stick with it. You have to ask yourself what is more important....the animal whose life may be at stakes or the unfounded suspicions of some people. I know which I would pick.

[SueM]

The dog needs to be taken to either the pound or yes the RSPCA and serve her time or at least she must be listed on the pounds and RSPCA's date base as found , when I ran Save a Pound Dog Qld we helped a small heavily pregnant dog and it was through the RSPCA they desexed and aborted the babies I am sure they would do it again if a rescue group was interested in her, but this dog could of been stolen a while ago before she got pregnant for all we know. I find it very strange that they said they would put her down straight away.

Edited August 5, 2010 by varicool

[casowner]

If my dog was lost and kept in someones backyard I would never get him back as 1 they would never get his breed correct and also would the finder take him in to be scanned for a microchip? Who would be responsible if he got out of their yard/he bit one of the people/if he attacked their pet or vise versa/who would pay for his food etc/what if he was injured/what if he caught a disease from their animals or vise versa?

If he went missing I would automatically go to pounds, ring vets etc would I be expected to check everyones house too? It may sound like a nice theory but there are major complications that could arise including legal implications for all involved.

[Joel]

Would you agree that a good middle ground would be for people to leave their details with the pound (maybe along with a picture if available (that can be emailed) and house the dog (again, if possible) themselves? This way, there is no fear of the dog being euth'd if the owner doesn't show, and if they do, they can go pick up the dog. What do you think?

I assume that your dogs are microchipped, so this problem would most likely not occur with you. Also, looking a bit scruffy is a little different than being pregnant so young. I hear what you're saying, people should follow the rules, but there are ways that you can follow the rules and not risk euthanisation.

Joel - - the dog isn't at risk of euthanasia just because it is at the pound. The person who called the pound obviously has things mixed up. A dog that is handed into the pound as a stray (and not as a surrender) does not get put down immediately ANYWHERE in Australia. It is against the law. The person handing in the dog can put their name against the dog and pick it up if the owner doesn't come forward.

The reason why your suggestion above isn't followed (and doesn't comply with the vast majority of councils' rules) is because people get descriptions of dogs mixed up and owners need to be able to see the dogs in order to identify them (after all, there are hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of brindle staffy x's that are in pounds across the country). Teh law is in place for a reason - to give people a chance to pick up their dog (the waiting period is too short IMO, but I would like to think that if someone picked up my dogs they would hand them in so that I could find them).

Just because a scan shows no chip doesn't mean that the dog isn't chipped. Chips are notorious for moving around. The age of the dog is just a guess by a vet. Many vets are not experienced in breed and age identification.

If this thread had been posted in the rescue section - where people are used to dealing with strays and have saved thousands and thousands of dogs from being put down - the advice would have been very straight forward. Hand the dog into the pound. Wait for the waiting period. Pick dog up.

As per RSG, I would hate to think what would happen if my girl got out. She has been abused in the past and is very scared of strangers. She is a mini schnauzer so one day in the rain and she'd look awful. If someone found her and posted how scared she was and how awful she looked on here I'm sure there would be a mob who would condemn me as an owner and try to find her a "good" home without actually doing the right thing.

First off, being scared, wet and looking sorry for herself is not the same as unchipped, no collar, PREGNANT, young and scared.

Secondly, I am not saying that the pound would immediately put her down. If you have read my previous posts (which obviously you havent) I have said that I doubt this would happen for the reason you have stated. What HAS been stated however is that the pound can and very likely WILL put her down after the waiting period has expired and she hasn't been claimed. And from just talking with a family member about it, who has personal experience regarding taking a dog to the pound and telling them that if nobody claimed them that she would take them only to learn that they then got put down, I would say that taking a dog to the pound is a crappy idea. Of course, they could just wait until the final day of the waiting period, and go down to the pound in person (instead of waiting for a call) to check whether they have been recovered or not, and if not then take them, but far out, not everyone is in a position to do that.

The reason that people would have just gone "take her to the pound, wait, pick her up" is because they're used to giving the same, generic advice to everyone. Secondly, there is nothing stopping someone calling the pound going "hey, ive lost my young lab bitch who is really pregnant, have you got her" and the pound going "well yes we've had someone call in saying that they've found a dog of that description, heres their details". Problem solved. This is not a case of a brindle staffy cross, this is a case of a young, pregnant lab.

EDIT:

Edited to include a reply to this post:

If my dog was lost and kept in someones backyard I would never get him back as 1 they would never get his breed correct and also would the finder take him in to be scanned for a microchip? Who would be responsible if he got out of their yard/he bit one of the people/if he attacked their pet or vise versa/who would pay for his food etc/what if he was injured/what if he caught a disease from their animals or vise versa?

If he went missing I would automatically go to pounds, ring vets etc would I be expected to check everyones house too? It may sound like a nice theory but there are major complications that could arise including legal implications for all involved.

Maybe they wouldn't get his breed correct, but im sure they'd get a description correct. Its not hard - just tell them what they see. Of course the idea is for them to be scanned for a microchip. If you look at it like "would the finder take them to get scanned" then you might as well look at it like "would they take them to the pound at all". As to the who would be responsible... well, i would look at it as follows: If it got out of their yard after they had agreed to take responsibility for the dog for the waiting period instead of the pound, then obviously, its their responsibility (in reality though, you wouldnt be in any worse a position than you were originally), if your dog bit one of them - again, their responsibility (they took it on knowing the risks), same goes for if it attacks their pets, if they fed him/her then you (the owner) should reimburse them, if he was injured while in their care (which you wouldnt know happened while in their care unless they were asked by the pound exactly what kind of condition they were in) then its their responsibility and the same goes for diseases.

Im not saying that everyone who finds an animal automatically become their own pound for god's sake. OBVIOUSLY the finder would contact at least the local pound to register the find with them so the owner can have someone to call.

EDIT:

The only problem that I can see at this point in time with people caring for the animals that they find for the waiting period is that if they have to work, then the dog is by themselves for the day (which isn't a big issue). The issue is: if the owner calls the pound at 10 in the morning, the person holding the dog has to be available to receive calls then. This also means that the owner (or, possible owner i should say) doesn't get to come see the dog until after hours.

LETS KEEP IN MIND PEOPLE THAT YOUR DOG SHOULD NOT GET INTO THIS SITUATION. IT SHOULD BE CHIPPED AND WEARING A COLLAR WITH ITS CHIP NUMBER, REGISTRATION TAG AND PREFERABLY A PERSONAL TAG WITH YOUR CONTACT NUMBER. It should be as simple as someone finding them, looking at a tag and calling you. Does it really matter if for the half an hour or so it takes you to get to their house they are in a backyard or inside? Lets be realistic.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Joel

[WreckitWhippet]

People give out the same " generic" advice because in most states it's the law and it's also the best way to ensure that an owner can be reuinted with their missing pet.

ETA: you are not going to miss your pet if you are walking down the rows in the pound looking for it and there's not going to be an issues of the animal being misidentified or a breakdown in communication between the pound, yourself or the person who has your dog in their back yard.

Edited August 5, 2010 by ReadySetGo

[casowner]

A young pregnant lab (whether she is pure or not) is no less important than a brindle staffy cross.

There are procedures in place to protect the owner, the dog, the council and the finders and unfortunately hundreds of pure and cross breed dogs die very day, it is a hard, sad fact of life and until owners are more responsible it will continue to happen regardless of how we feel.

[megan_]

First off, being scared, wet and looking sorry for herself is not the same as unchipped, no collar, PREGNANT, young and scared.

Could be from an ethical, registered breeder for all we know. Plenty of people don't leave collars on their dogs (strangulation risk), plently of chipped dogs register as unchipped (chips moves), plenty of pregnant dogs are young - they are bred young.

Th reason why rescuers give the same generic advice is because they know how to comply with the law and actually save dogs. Not because they churn out the same advice without thinking.

[Greytmate]

Time and time again I log on and see that some poor dog is in strife and several very generous people are stepping in to help him /her. And then it turns into the mandatory bunfight over who gets the money, what happens to the animal, who intends to do what etc etc etc...

Get over it. If the bitch isnt chipped its going to be hard to prove ownership anyway. The 'finder' has obviously tried to do the right thing and so has the original poster. AND I might add that Ellz' offer was extremely generous and altruistic. I too would like to offer our services but its still a long way to Albury form Brisbane. We have a litter on the ground leaving in two weeks so dont really need another one at this stage but would help out.

However, I am not prepared to put myself or my family in the firing line from people who are determined to see the worst in every situtation.

Ellz if you decide to proceed PM me and I will see what I can do to help.

There are ethical and legal ways of obtaining dogs, and then there is just taking them and keeping them or selling them.

Your family wouldn't be put in a firing line if you were to illegally take this dog or encourage others to do the same, it would just be you doing the wrong thing.

Joel, there is no middle ground. A dog either belongs to you or it does not. If you want to claim ownership you must do this through the council. That isn't my opinion. It is the law.

I hope my old sick dog never gets out, some of you people would try to ensure I would never see it again. ;)

[megan_]

LETS KEEP IN MIND PEOPLE THAT YOUR DOG SHOULD NOT GET INTO THIS SITUATION. IT SHOULD BE CHIPPED AND WEARING A COLLAR WITH ITS CHIP NUMBER, REGISTRATION TAG AND PREFERABLY A PERSONAL TAG WITH YOUR CONTACT NUMBER. It should be as simple as someone finding them, looking at a tag and calling you. Does it really matter if for the half an hour or so it takes you to get to their house they are in a backyard or inside? Lets be realistic.

There is no need to shout :-).

You will find that a lot of experienced dog owners on this site don't actually have collars on their dogs as they are a strangulation risk (if you have active dgos, exp when you have a pack).

Even good owners sometimes have issues and their dogs get out - fences blow down etc.

[Joel]

Collars as a strangulation risk is dependent on the collar. Personally I see the likelihood that a dog will strangle itself on a properly fitting collar very unlikely, but to each his own. There are breakaway collars for a reason.

A young pregnant lab (whether she is pure or not) is no less important than a brindle staffy cross.

There are procedures in place to protect the owner, the dog, the council and the finders and unfortunately hundreds of pure and cross breed dogs die very day, it is a hard, sad fact of life and until owners are more responsible it will continue to happen regardless of how we feel.

I'm not at all saying that a young, pregnant lab is more important than a brindle staffy cross, or any dog for that matter. What I AM saying is that it would be easier to identify as there are less of them. Your comment also makes me think that you would be fine if the pound put this dog down. I personally am not fine with putting a dog down unless all other avenues have been considered.

Greytmate, I think you are misunderstanding mine (and many other peoples) standpoint and comments thus far. I am not saying that a lost dog is fair game for anyone who finds it - far from it. Do you know how many lost animals I and my family have found? HANDFULS. Did they go to the pound? No. Why? Because finding them does not give us ownership. One case in particular comes to mind - a kitten that was stuck up a power poll at quarter to 6 in the morning. It had obviously been there all night. My mum called the fire brigade to get it - they wouldnt come. So up a ladder I went on a slippery wooden power pole, pulled the poor kitty down and took it inside. Now, this cat had no collar and no microchip and we still managed to find its owner. How? Well, the owner wanted it back and so they put out posters (and so did we if I remember correctly). If someone is REALLY looking for their dog, they will find it (unless someone has stolen it and is keeping it from them).

I am in no way saying that people should snatch up dogs and put them in their backyard and wait for a call and if it doesnt come in 3 days then sell it. What you are misunderstanding is that firstly, nobody here was trying to profit from anything (in fact, it would COST them time, money and effort) and secondly that there was no intention to claim the dog BEFORE the waiting period (for the owner to claim the dog) had expired.

ETA: you are not going to miss your pet if you are walking down the rows in the pound looking for it and there's not going to be an issues of the animal being misidentified or a breakdown in communication between the pound, yourself or the person who has your dog in their back yard.

This IS a problem with not having a dog in a pound. Whats the solution? Put in systems to minimize the chances of communication breakdown? Have a council ranger (or similar) come to inspect the dog and take a photo (which means then that the owner could walk through the pound and flick through some photos)? <--- I think thats a good one. Or, do we just take the dog to the pound and hope for the best? If there was a way to guarantee that the finder be contacted if the owner didn't show up, then I would say that every dog should go to the pound when it is found. But the fact is, it doesnt happen that way. There are countless animals that are put to sleep because the owner didnt claim them and the person who found them wasnt contacted. And these animals, apart from having crappy owners, are perfectly fine to go to another home.

If you're worried about losing your dog, keep a collar on it. If you're 100% sure that your dog cant get out and its chip is in the same place that it was put, then leave it off if you like. I think the chances of a dog getting out far outweigh the chances of them strangling themselves with a proper collar.

EDIT:

I hope my old sick dog never gets out, some of you people would try to ensure I would never see it again.

God I hope you werent serious writing that. If you were, lets switch it and look at it from my perspective. From what it sounds like, you would be fine handing over my dog to the pound when theres a good chance that she'll get put down if I cant get to her in time. One of my family's dogs has run more than 3 councils over when they got out. It was just LUCK that she found him. I know of dogs that have gone further! How is someone supposed to find their dog in that situation in 3 days? I would rather that someone had her, even if I was too late and she was given away, at least she'd be alive.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Joel

[casowner]

Collars as a strangulation risk is dependent on the collar. Personally I see the likelihood that a dog will strangle itself on a properly fitting collar very unlikely, but to each his own. There are breakaway collars for a reason.

"A young pregnant lab (whether she is pure or not) is no less important than a brindle staffy cross.

There are procedures in place to protect the owner, the dog, the council and the finders and unfortunately hundreds of pure and cross breed dogs die very day, it is a hard, sad fact of life and until owners are more responsible it will continue to happen regardless of how we feel."

I'm not at all saying that a young, pregnant lab is more important than a brindle staffy cross, or any dog for that matter. What I AM saying is that it would be easier to identify as there are less of them. Your comment also makes me think that you would be fine if the pound put this dog down. I personally am not fine with putting a dog down unless all other avenues have been considered.

Please do not ASSUME anything when it comes to me, I have worked in shelters putting down dogs/cats every day. Is it something people enjoy - NO. Why is it necessary - BECAUSE IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE LOSE THEIR ANIMALS AND DON'T CLAIM THEM OR HAND THEM OVER BECAUSE IT IS AN EASIER OPTION!

The cold simple fact is that Legislation and policies exist, people are not a law unto themselves and can not make up the rules as they go along.

I have been asked to help rehome a 2 1/2 year old purebred desexed male Labrador as the owner was going to send it the the RSPCA or AWL and I said I will help with other options. WHY? Because anyone walking into a shelter and sees a lab and then in the next pen a cross breed anything will pick the lab for the simple fact it is a lab. Does it matter if a lab is suitable, no they are getting a bargain so who cares.

Naivety whilst noble does not reunite lost pets with their owners, procedures and the owners wanting to find them does

[Joel]

Please do not ASSUME anything when it comes to me, I have worked in shelters putting down dogs/cats every day. Is it something people enjoy - NO. Why is it necessary - BECAUSE IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE LOSE THEIR ANIMALS AND DON'T CLAIM THEM OR HAND THEM OVER BECAUSE IT IS AN EASIER OPTION!

The cold simple fact is that Legislation and policies exist, people are not a law unto themselves and can not make up the rules as they go along.

I have been asked to help rehome a 2 1/2 year old purebred desexed male Labrador as the owner was going to send it the the RSPCA or AWL and I said I will help with other options. WHY? Because anyone walking into a shelter and sees a lab and then in the next pen a cross breed anything will pick the lab for the simple fact it is a lab. Does it matter if a lab is suitable, no they are getting a bargain so who cares.

Naivety whilst noble does not reunite lost pets with their owners, procedures and the owners wanting to find them does

My apologies for assuming, but how can you have worked in shelters and not support these people who are doing everything they can to make sure this lab survives and produces her litter safely (while still giving the owner the ability to claim her)? Again, I am not condoning people taking found pets and keeping them. What I am saying is, if there is a way that the dog can be HOUSED somewhere other than the pound (for the pure purpose of it not getting put down once the deadline is up), but still with the ability for the owner to come forth and claim it, then I think this is a better option than risking that the girl be put down because the finder wasn't contacted beforehand.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Joel

[Maddy]

This seems kind of simple to me

Ethical rescue requires obeying council, state and federal laws regarding the animals and to actively break laws or encourage others to do so (even if you disagree with those laws, happen to think the animal will be better off or assume that you know best in the situation) is simply not ethical.

Laws are in place for a reason.

[casowner]

Joel, I do not want to sound as if I am at all criticising anyone that wants to help this dog as my life is dedicated to my animals, many of which had no other chances left. But not surrendering her can hamper her returning home, the simple fact is her owners may not even want her back or even look for her but if they are her chances are minimised if she is kept somewhere else. She may not be a lab at all and if she is described as one and the owners are looking for a different breed or cross which is similar then she may not get matched up. Her short tem chances of being reunited are better at the shelter, her long term prospects of finding a new home may not be but again unfortunately that is the case for thousands of animals every year.

If we choose what laws to abide to when it comes to Animal Control we will never be able to make positive steps forward in the future as why would laws get changed if current ones are ignored?

Edited August 5, 2010 by casowner

[Joel]

Is it law that a found animal must be sheltered at the pound? I didn't think it was

If the law states that a lost dog MUST be impounded, then so be it. From the OP, it seemed like the shelter didnt want anything to do with it. THATS why I suggested housing it elsewhere (while it still would have been recorded with the pound).

EDIT: (Far out it seems like I edit every post that I write)

With that said, I think then there should be penalties if the finder has said that they wish to be contacted if the owner doesnt show before their time is up.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Joel

[megan_]

Is it law that a found animal must be sheltered at the pound? I didn't think it was

If the law states that a lost dog MUST be impounded, then so be it. up.

Joel - this is what Greymate's, my posts and many other posts have said. The law states that the dog must be physically handed into the pound. The only expection to this is when it is a small country town and the pount manager agrees to let someone keep the dog at their house.

A shelter is different from a pound. Teh shelter wouldn't want it because legally they aren't allowed to take it until it has served time in the pound.

That is why people have been rabbiting on and on about it. The law states that they have to take the dog to the pound, intentions regardless!

Edited August 5, 2010 by megan_

[Rebanne]

I assume that your dogs are microchipped, so this problem would most likely not occur with you.

not all microchips are found.

[Joel]

what difference does it make if its a small country town or not? and which law is it specifically (i like to read official things like this so i can understand them completely)?

[megan_]

what difference does it make if its a small country town or not? and which law is it specifically (i like to read official things like this so i can understand them completely)?

council bylaws.

My understanding is that some country pounds are tinya nd don't have the space. Either way, the law is the same.

[Joel]

which law is the same?

Like I said though, it sounded to me like the pound wanted nothing to do with them...? What would happen in that case...?