Pregnant Lab Girl Found!

[Joel]

Im not saying to not go through proper procedure, I dont think anyone here is. What I am saying is that I doubt the dog has been missing for months. If it has, then the chances of the owner finding it now and not while it had been missing for months up until now is pretty damn slim. Also, I dont think that the pound would put her down immediately.

[Joel]

Hey Ellz

Just wanted to say I could see exactly where you were coming from and I don't think you should feel bad about offering to help this dog IF NEEDED!!! Quite the opposite.

I could see you weren't suggesting they immediately send the dog to you without doing anything else but rather that if it came to it, and there was no other better solution, that you were offering to help. It seemed to me to have come from a genuine place of concern for the welfare of this poor puppy.

I'm not sure why it got turned around like it did - perhaps it's just an internet thing.....

+1

OK, TO CLARIFY (and what I would suggest be done by the finder):

Clarify with the pound to see if they mean put her down immediately (which I HIGHLY DOUBT they meant (that doesn't mean that they're able to hold her though (but then I would assume that they would contact another pound to organize her being held somewhere else or ask the finder if s/he could hold her))), or after her holding time if her owner isnt found.

If they mean immediately, give them a name and a number to contact if the owner comes through, so that they can be recovered at whoevers house they are being held (if its available)

If they dont mean immediately, then drop the bitch off, give them a name and a number to contact if noone comes forward. (they are more willing to handball a dog off to someone than put it down).

Now that Ellz' offer has been withdrawn (and I can't blame her for doing so -_-), homing her might be a problem. Keep posting on here, talk to some other rescue places etc.

If the owner comes forward, give them a smack in the face and tell them that if they want to own an animal that they have to be more damn careful and that next time they might not be so lucky.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Joel

[oakway]

Greytmate, not everybody had an ulterior motive as to why they would care for a dog. Most of us have over the years and received nothing but the satisfaction of helping.

I am appalled that people think it is ok to sell a dog that doesn't belong to them. Regardless of motive.

Who said anybody was going to sell the dog. If this bitch goes into a pound or RSPCA care and is not put down the off spring will be sold along with bitch herself.

[Scarlet]

In Qld the holding period for an unregistered dog is 3 working days.

It can be put down after 3 working days.

The dog does NOT have to be taken to the pound but there is a moral expectation that you contact the pound and give your details and that of the dog to them to put on their data base.

You then only have to hold the dog for 3 working days before the council will let you take ownership if you want to.

IF you surrender the dog to the pound and they decide to put it down you WILL NOT be notified, so you do not get the chance to adopt/take the dog back. If it passes for adopting it's up to the finder to keep checking the website or pound.

The dog will be put down if it doesn't pass the temperament or health test.

Brisbane City Council (and I have been told this by council staff) are unlikely to adopt out a pregnant dog nor are they likely to keep and allow a pregnant dog to whelp.

All I could suggest is for the "finders" to register this dog on the council lost registry then after 3 day without the owners collecting her, she would be the finder's dog.

[LizT]

Okay as I see the only facts known are that a young bitch is lost AND pregnant and that there is "no room at the Inn".

Ellez offer was/is EXTREMELY generous but being an experienced breeder Ellez knows that if the bitch is 'heavily' pregnant then transporting her would be unwise...particularly from one end of the country to the other and 'overseas' to boot.

It is highly likely that this poor young girl got out during her first "season' and has probably been mated with some wondering Lothario. That said Ellez has nothing to gain by offering to take the bitch. In all possibility the puppies are mixed breed and even if they are purebred Ellez is a reputable, registered breeder who can gain nothing from a young (or old) unregistered bitch, or the sale of unregistered puppies, whom by the way would be desexed anyway if she (the bitch)were adopted out to Ellez.

Hyperthetically, IF the puppies were rehomed it would be best to sell them for a modest sum, as "Free to good home" dogs are generally not thought through enough by the potential new owners and can also be 'undervalued' by said new owners. Therefore it would be best if puppies were SOLD and proceeds DONATED to a Rescue Group or such.

Also Greytmate, with regards to the original owners, won't their claim on the dog become defunk once she has been unclaimed for a period of time in any case????

By all means go through legal channels, it really is the only way to do these things without recourse, and I can see the logic behind what you imply by saying no one has the right to resell someone elses property (which Ellez never mentioned doing, her thoughts were still at that 'troubleshooting stage' trying to 'nut out' the logistics behind the problem). But people do have that right after a period of time. If the owner of a horse doesn't pay their agistment fees and becomes uncontactable the property owner can send that animal to market after a certain period of time and provided they place an advert in the paper can sell the animal and recoupe costs.

Ellez offer was a kind and extemely generous one, motivated purely by the desire to see this young dog through what will be a diffcult time and also fueled by what sounded to me like a desperate call for help by a person faced with whelping a litter and having no knowlege and experience in this area.

Edited August 5, 2010 by LizT

[Red Fox]

Genuine question:

If an owner rings the pound looking for a lost dog do the pound keep any kind of record of that call in case the dog turns up at a later date or does the owner have to ring continuously to check if the dog has been handed in?

Is there the option of the "finder" calling and notifying all pounds in the region giving their details (even emailing a pic to them) and holding the dog for the period of time which it would otherwise spend in the pound?

As far as I was aware the holding period is 72 hours after which the dog may be "disposed of" if it is not claimed by the owner. It is certainly the case where I live, does this differ in QLD?

eta, Scarlets post answers my last 2 questions

Edited August 5, 2010 by SecretKei

[aussielover]

In Qld the holding period for an unregistered dog is 3 working days.

It can be put down after 3 working days.

The dog does NOT have to be taken to the pound but there is a moral expectation that you contact the pound and give your details and that of the dog to them to put on their data base.

You then only have to hold the dog for 3 working days before the council will let you take ownership if you want to.

IF you surrender the dog to the pound and they decide to put it down you WILL NOT be notified, so you do not get the chance to adopt/take the dog back. If it passes for adopting it's up to the finder to keep checking the website or pound.

The dog will be put down if it doesn't pass the temperament or health test.

Brisbane City Council (and I have been told this by council staff) are unlikely to adopt out a pregnant dog nor are they likely to keep and allow a pregnant dog to whelp.

All I could suggest is for the "finders" to register this dog on the council lost registry then after 3 day without the owners collecting her, she would be the finder's dog.

Thanks for clarifying that! I was unaware that there was a different system in QLD. 3 days is not very long imo!

That sounds like a good plan- that way the dog will be collected by the owner (unlikely) or safe with the finder ;)

[Joel]

In Qld the holding period for an unregistered dog is 3 working days.

It can be put down after 3 working days.

The dog does NOT have to be taken to the pound but there is a moral expectation that you contact the pound and give your details and that of the dog to them to put on their data base.

You then only have to hold the dog for 3 working days before the council will let you take ownership if you want to.

IF you surrender the dog to the pound and they decide to put it down you WILL NOT be notified, so you do not get the chance to adopt/take the dog back. If it passes for adopting it's up to the finder to keep checking the website or pound.

The dog will be put down if it doesn't pass the temperament or health test.

Brisbane City Council (and I have been told this by council staff) are unlikely to adopt out a pregnant dog nor are they likely to keep and allow a pregnant dog to whelp.

All I could suggest is for the "finders" to register this dog on the council lost registry then after 3 day without the owners collecting her, she would be the finder's dog.

Thanks for the clarification ;) I think your suggestion is absolutely on the money.

[Joan of Arc]

Time and time again I log on and see that some poor dog is in strife and several very generous people are stepping in to help him /her. And then it turns into the mandatory bunfight over who gets the money, what happens to the animal, who intends to do what etc etc etc...

Get over it. If the bitch isnt chipped its going to be hard to prove ownership anyway. The 'finder' has obviously tried to do the right thing and so has the original poster. AND I might add that Ellz' offer was extremely generous and altruistic. I too would like to offer our services but its still a long way to Albury form Brisbane. We have a litter on the ground leaving in two weeks so dont really need another one at this stage but would help out.

However, I am not prepared to put myself or my family in the firing line from people who are determined to see the worst in every situtation.

Ellz if you decide to proceed PM me and I will see what I can do to help.

[Joel]

Its lovely to see people willing to help. As I said to Ellz, if more people were like this then the world would be a better place. Sometimes I think the world is a bit doomed when I look around and everyone is just out there to help themselves, but at times like this, when people put their hands up to help with no real benefit in it for them other than a good feeling knowing that they've done the right thing, the coals of the fire that is my hope for the world get a little hotter.

Please keep us informed of what happens to her, I'm very interested.

[t-time]

WOW! I was really shocked to see 5 pages this morning! ;)

Firstly, I am reporting what I know - the bitch was found by a workmate of my partner and what I have posted is all the information I have at this stage....my partner called me from work to see if I could help or had suggestions, hence the post here.

There have been many good suggestions and offers of help - thankyou SO MUCH to all those people!

I don't know whether or not the pound would PTS after 3 days or 7 days - We are in Moreton Bay RC but I don't know where the workmate lives.

My parents, also with this council had a miniature pony turn up in their backyard year before last and the council were notified and they said my parents could do what they wanted with it!! Lots has changed with Animal laws recently due to the amalgamations.......

Vets guessing the age of a dog - perhaps it *is* an older but a smaller-type Lab - don't know....apparently no chip and by all accounts very pregnant.

So that's it!

I will let you guys know what happens once something is sorted out.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

FORGOTTEN TO BE CHIPPED? Give me a break. Its one of the first things I and my family does when getting a new dog. If you dont want your dog lost, then make sure every step is taken to prevent it, and if it is lost, you had better have taken every step to make sure you get them back.

i wait until i desex to chip. maybe they did the same?

ets i have small dogs so desex at 6 months

Edited August 5, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[Tubbles]

Why is it that beauracracy so often overides commmon sense and the greater good!

I dont know about other areas, but here it is mandatory to microchip and register a pup at 12 weeks.

I know I was at the vet at 12 wks exactly because as a responsible owner I wanted to make sure that if my "baby" ever accidently became lost, that I maximised my chances of recovering her.

This poor dog is young, pregnant, not microchipped and unregistered at approximately 8 months!

She is in grave danger of being put down, or worse still having her pups at the pound where they are less likely to survive. Surely it is better to keep her out of the pound and just inform them of any relevant contact details should the owners come looking?

I took in an abandoned cat that otherwise risked being seized and put down at the pound.

I knew who the owners were .... and sorry but they were deadbeats who did not vaccinate, microchip or desex the cat and allowed her to become pregnant very early. When they were finally evicted they took a leftover kitten that hadn't been fortunate enough to find a better home and abandoned the mother with no food; leaving her to scrounge amongst the ample rubbish as best she could!

I took her home vaccinated, chipped and desexed her and have since rehomed her.

I make no apologies for not following so called due process and sentencing her to further trauma in a pound where her future was extremely uncertain!

Btw not once have those owners returned to try to pick up their cat!

[ninahartland]

Well I dont know about anything else and sincerely hope that something gets sorted for this young girl, but I think that was a brilliant offer of Ellz ;)

Good on ya girl!!!!

[WreckitWhippet]

We don't have the right to pick and choose what we think is the "right" thing for an animal and ignore legislation in the process. It's there for a reason and it's there to protect the rights of an owner, who DOES want to be reunited with a lost pet.

Heaven help me if I lost one of my Whippet girls, she'd find the nearest mud puddle and get herself looking and smelling pretty and in less than a day she can drop weight and look like no one owns her. I'd never get her back if she was subjected to the "common sense and greater good " attutide , that some have here.

I doubt I'd get one of my other girls back either, she looks like a bit of a wreck at the moment, she's skinny, is suffering hair loss and of course deserves to be kept in someone's back yard too, as clearly I'd be judged an irrepsonsible owner.

People avoid handing in dogs to pounds for fear that they might be euth'd but there just might be an owner looking for a missing dog too.

[Joel]

We don't have the right to pick and choose what we think is the "right" thing for an animal and ignore legislation in the process. It's there for a reason and it's there to protect the rights of an owner, who DOES want to be reunited with a lost pet.

Heaven help me if I lost one of my Whippet girls, she'd find the nearest mud puddle and get herself looking and smelling pretty and in less than a day she can drop weight and look like no one owns her. I'd never get her back if she was subjected to the "common sense and greater good " attutide , that some have here.

I doubt I'd get one of my other girls back either, she looks like a bit of a wreck at the moment, she's skinny, is suffering hair loss and of course deserves to be kept in someone's back yard too, as clearly I'd be judged an irrepsonsible owner.

People avoid handing in dogs to pounds for fear that they might be euth'd but there just might be an owner looking for a missing dog too.

Would you agree that a good middle ground would be for people to leave their details with the pound (maybe along with a picture if available (that can be emailed) and house the dog (again, if possible) themselves? This way, there is no fear of the dog being euth'd if the owner doesn't show, and if they do, they can go pick up the dog. What do you think?

I assume that your dogs are microchipped, so this problem would most likely not occur with you. Also, looking a bit scruffy is a little different than being pregnant so young. I hear what you're saying, people should follow the rules, but there are ways that you can follow the rules and not risk euthanisation.

[WreckitWhippet]

We don't have the right to pick and choose what we think is the "right" thing for an animal and ignore legislation in the process. It's there for a reason and it's there to protect the rights of an owner, who DOES want to be reunited with a lost pet.

Heaven help me if I lost one of my Whippet girls, she'd find the nearest mud puddle and get herself looking and smelling pretty and in less than a day she can drop weight and look like no one owns her. I'd never get her back if she was subjected to the "common sense and greater good " attutide , that some have here.

I doubt I'd get one of my other girls back either, she looks like a bit of a wreck at the moment, she's skinny, is suffering hair loss and of course deserves to be kept in someone's back yard too, as clearly I'd be judged an irrepsonsible owner.

People avoid handing in dogs to pounds for fear that they might be euth'd but there just might be an owner looking for a missing dog too.

Would you agree that a good middle ground would be for people to leave their details with the pound (maybe along with a picture if available (that can be emailed) and house the dog (again, if possible) themselves? This way, there is no fear of the dog being euth'd if the owner doesn't show, and if they do, they can go pick up the dog. What do you think?

I assume that your dogs are microchipped, so this problem would most likely not occur with you. Also, looking a bit scruffy is a little different than being pregnant so young. I hear what you're saying, people should follow the rules, but there are ways that you can follow the rules and not risk euthanisation.

I think that's treading on dangerous ground and I certainly wouldn't want any of my dogs housed in someone's back yard. The pound is secure and there is little chance of escape.

There is also the issue of members of the public taking in dogs, when their temperaments are unknown. They could pose a danger to their own animals and their family.

They also risk the introduction of disease and parasites into their yards and homes.

[Joel]

I think that's treading on dangerous ground and I certainly wouldn't want any of my dogs housed in someone's back yard. The pound is secure and there is little chance of escape.

There is also the issue of members of the public taking in dogs, when their temperaments are unknown. They could pose a danger to their own animals and their family.

They also risk the introduction of disease and parasites into their yards and homes.

I wouldn't mind my dog housed in someone elses backyard, SO LONG AS the pound was contacted and the pound let me know the whereabouts of my dog.

I think the issue of temperaments, potential danger, disease, parasites etc would have to be taken into account by the person who would be homing them temporarily. If they have no issue and know the possible dangers, then so be it.

If you look at it how you've described, just owning a dog seems like a bad idea. After all, a dog can bite an owner after 10 years of being their companion. They could bite a child. They could introduce parasites and disease. They could escape. They could leave you in a whole heap of trouble with the law, your neighbors and anyone that they attack. They can fight with another dog. This could also land you with huge medical bills. With all that in mind, just the idea of keeping a dog is scary. And yet, we do. Why? Because we've weighed up the risks and decided to go with it anyway. Because the benefit of going with it is something great, whereas if we were scared by the possibilities then we would never move forward in life.

I mean, far out, lets be a little bit realistic and less pessimistic. People are generally pretty cautious when they are taking on an unfamiliar animal (i learnt my lesson when i was young by getting bitten by a 3 legged cat that i was trying to help). If somebody is going into it with a clear mind of the potential dangers, then I dont see a problem.

Oh, thought I would add... I have had Honey escape (we left her in the care of someone else for a morning while we were out) and be housed at someone elses house around the corner. They called the pound, she was microchipped with her tag (and now she has our ph number on a separate tag as well) and they gave us a call. We went around and picked her up. She was having a great time playing with their little JRT. Try and see the positives before jumping straight to the negatives. Sure, they could have just taken her collar off, put a new one on and we would never have found her. But then again, that could happen with any dog that ends up in the pound - they already had the chance to be stolen and weren't.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Joel

[megan_]

Would you agree that a good middle ground would be for people to leave their details with the pound (maybe along with a picture if available (that can be emailed) and house the dog (again, if possible) themselves? This way, there is no fear of the dog being euth'd if the owner doesn't show, and if they do, they can go pick up the dog. What do you think?

I assume that your dogs are microchipped, so this problem would most likely not occur with you. Also, looking a bit scruffy is a little different than being pregnant so young. I hear what you're saying, people should follow the rules, but there are ways that you can follow the rules and not risk euthanisation.

Joel - - the dog isn't at risk of euthanasia just because it is at the pound. The person who called the pound obviously has things mixed up. A dog that is handed into the pound as a stray (and not as a surrender) does not get put down immediately ANYWHERE in Australia. It is against the law. The person handing in the dog can put their name against the dog and pick it up if the owner doesn't come forward.

The reason why your suggestion above isn't followed (and doesn't comply with the vast majority of councils' rules) is because people get descriptions of dogs mixed up and owners need to be able to see the dogs in order to identify them (after all, there are hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of brindle staffy x's that are in pounds across the country). Teh law is in place for a reason - to give people a chance to pick up their dog (the waiting period is too short IMO, but I would like to think that if someone picked up my dogs they would hand them in so that I could find them).

Just because a scan shows no chip doesn't mean that the dog isn't chipped. Chips are notorious for moving around. The age of the dog is just a guess by a vet. Many vets are not experienced in breed and age identification.

If this thread had been posted in the rescue section - where people are used to dealing with strays and have saved thousands and thousands of dogs from being put down - the advice would have been very straight forward. Hand the dog into the pound. Wait for the waiting period. Pick dog up.

As per RSG, I would hate to think what would happen if my girl got out. She has been abused in the past and is very scared of strangers. She is a mini schnauzer so one day in the rain and she'd look awful. If someone found her and posted how scared she was and how awful she looked on here I'm sure there would be a mob who would condemn me as an owner and try to find her a "good" home without actually doing the right thing.

[Moselle]

damn if she was in vic i would take her in a heart beat poor maggot i really hope someone can help out - god i hate people sometimes!!

Is that right?