De-sexing Male Dogs?

[Remarkabull]

I have a Dobermann pup (5 months old) and have booked him in to be neutered on Monday. My OH dosn't want to get him done and keeps coming up with excuses why I should wait. Most of them make no sense (This is his first male dog so I think he is 'identifying' with him a bit too much!), however he asked me yesterday if having him neutered now will affect his growth and development? My last Dobermann was not neutered and although he was a very obedient dog he definately developed a 'dislike' of other entire males. I want to avoid this if I can, hence why I want to get it done now but I don't want to 'stunt' his growth (not the best way to put it but you get my drift?)

Anyway, I just wanted some opinions from others in regards to this. What has been your past experience with this?

[Moselle]

I would not recommend desexing a large dog at 5 mths of age, way too young. The growing process isn't complete as yet. Different people have different theories on this subject. I would say that 11-13 mths of age would be preferable.

[Sandra777]

You will get a very wide range of opinions on this.

It is my opinion that larger breeds should not be neutered prior to them achieving their full adult height - which wouldn't be 5 months old in a Dobermann AFAIK.

I personally don't have an issue with allowing a dog to become fully mature (not just height) prior to neutering, provided the owner can train and restrain the dog appropriately.

[Nekhbet]

I wouldnt do a dobe under 12 months of age. Testosterone is used during development. If you want your dog to be good with other dogs it will depend on socialisation, genetics and training, not just whether he's desexed or not

[poodlefan]

This is the classic "how long is a piece of string" question.

For a dobe I'd be considering no younger than 14 months.

[Bundyburger]

We were not going to desex until over 12 mths, on advice from our breeder, however due to some undesirable behaviours our boy has started showing the past two weeks after a surge in hormones, he's off for the snip tomorrow. Can't have him picking fights like he is at the moment, and we just don't have the knowledge to deal with a testosterone charged fully grown dog if he's already causing problems at this age. Luckily I have a great breeder who understands our reasons He's getting the training he needs but he's just erm, a tad distracted at the moment

[poodlefan]

We were not going to desex until over 12 mths, on advice from our breeder, however due to some undesirable behaviours our boy has started showing the past two weeks after a surge in hormones, he's off for the snip tomorrow. Can't have him picking fights like he is at the moment, and we just don't have the knowledge to deal with a testosterone charged fully grown dog if he's already causing problems at this age. Luckily I have a great breeder who understands our reasons He's getting the training he needs but he's just erm, a tad distracted at the moment

I hope you're prepared for the fact that desexing may not solve this issue BM.

[poodlemum]

Another vote here for leaving the desexing till 12 months, at least. That's usually when I would desex a Standard Poodle

[Bundyburger]

We were not going to desex until over 12 mths, on advice from our breeder, however due to some undesirable behaviours our boy has started showing the past two weeks after a surge in hormones, he's off for the snip tomorrow. Can't have him picking fights like he is at the moment, and we just don't have the knowledge to deal with a testosterone charged fully grown dog if he's already causing problems at this age. Luckily I have a great breeder who understands our reasons He's getting the training he needs but he's just erm, a tad distracted at the moment

I hope you're prepared for the fact that desexing may not solve this issue BM.

Yep certainly are. There has been lots of discussion before making the decision, and I'm reasonably confident from knowing his behaviour patterns that he'll settle once they're gone, but if it doesn't, well we have that under control too.

[Remarkabull]

I wouldnt do a dobe under 12 months of age. Testosterone is used during development. If you want your dog to be good with other dogs it will depend on socialisation, genetics and training, not just whether he's desexed or not

Thanks everyone, good to get others opinions. I am aware that desexing him won't make or break him in his ability to get on with other dogs but going by my past experience no matter how well the dog is 'trained' testosterone can make it a whole lot more difficult. eg. my old dobe and an entire male rotti that went to the same obedience club used to be able to do drop, stays so close to each other they were touching and they also competed on the same flyball team for years and while they were focused on the exercise there were no problems but if we happened to be chatting casually we had to be on high alert to make sure they didn't lunge at each other. There was also an issue with a entire SBT at the same club and he was trialling at a high level in obedience. All neutered males and any bitches (speyed or not) he was fine with.

Edited to add that we are holding off on the desexing until he is at least 12 months old

Edited August 3, 2010 by dobesrock

[Nekhbet]

not every dog will get on with every other as well. If your dog had a particular issue with another dog then that was between them. My boys dont get along yet they're friendly to everyone else. My entire male dogue even rolled over the other day for a little staffy pup to lie on top of him If he is over territorial I would count that as a sign of too much testosterone before interdog issues. Some breeds are harder then others despite what we do to them hormonally, again there is a genetic component there.

[Red Fox]

I have a Dobermann pup (5 months old) and have booked him in to be neutered on Monday. My OH dosn't want to get him done and keeps coming up with excuses why I should wait. Most of them make no sense (This is his first male dog so I think he is 'identifying' with him a bit too much!), however he asked me yesterday if having him neutered now will affect his growth and development? My last Dobermann was not neutered and although he was a very obedient dog he definately developed a 'dislike' of other entire males. I want to avoid this if I can, hence why I want to get it done now but I don't want to 'stunt' his growth (not the best way to put it but you get my drift?)

Anyway, I just wanted some opinions from others in regards to this. What has been your past experience with this?

I wouldn't desex him before 18 months - if at all.

I might get flamed for saying so but I see no reason to desex a healthy male dog, in a single dog household, if you are willing to put in the time and effort to be a responsible owner. (ie consistant training, setting ground rules, good leadership skills, etc) Really things you should be doing whether your dog is entire or not

[poodlefan]

I might get flamed for saying so but I see no reason to desex a healthy male dog, in a single dog household, if you are willing to put in the time and effort to be a responsible owner. (ie consistant training, setting ground rules, good leadership skills, etc) Really things you should be doing whether your dog is entire or not

This. Responsible dog owners can manage entire male dogs.. even several of them.

My primary concern with entire males is the risk of theft.

Edited August 3, 2010 by poodlefan

[Red Fox]

I might get flamed for saying so but I see no reason to desex a healthy male dog, in a single dog household, if you are willing to put in the time and effort to be a responsible owner. (ie consistant training, setting ground rules, good leadership skills, etc) Really things you should be doing whether your dog is entire or not

This. Responsible dog owners can manage entire male dogs.. even several of them.

My primary concern with entire males is the risk of theft.

Yep, true on boths counts. But I do think that it's pretty sad when the primary reason for desexing a male dog comes down to the choice between protecting his safety and wellbeing over and above what is on his best interests health wise, but it's definitely something worth considering.

[Remarkabull]

I agree with both of the above posts. I have never previously desexed any of my male dogs in the past and am not particularly keen this time but thought it might help prevent some issues. He is not my only dog, I have 5 , all other dogs in the household are desexed (2 female and 2 male). The other 2 male dogs were desexed because at the time I had an entire JRT bitch (still do but she is desexed now) and didn't want any 'accidents' (both of them are cross breeds).

I understand that desexing alone won't automatically make him a well adjusted, well behaved dog, I just wanted to know from a growth perspective if in others experiences that it would affect him.

I will also state that he is not an aggressive dog and I would not be desexing him to 'fix' a problem, but maybe to try and prevent one from occuring. (Along with training etc). At this stage, I have to say that I am rethinking the whole desexing thing. I might just have to work extra hard with training to make sure that DA is not an issue we will have to deal with .

[tdierikx]

There is anecdotal evidence that shows that dogs who are desexed young can become "leggier" - basically the long bones' growth plates close later than entire dogs.

My own male dogs I didn't have desexed at all (both now gone to the Bridge) - but all my rescue foster pups are done before rehoming, which means that they are quite young when done.

My entire males were definitely big sooks, and trained enough that testosterone never became a factor when they were out in public - but at home we kept them separate because the older boy didn't take kindly to another entire male "on his patch" - the younger boy never had those tendencies - a very laid back and placid lad - all 47kg's of him... *grin*

T.

[Starkehre]

dobesrock, may I make a suggestion...

It sounds as though you have decided to leave off the desexing, at least for the moment or until your lad's growth plates have fully closed. Personally I think that is a good thing, like some others here, I am not a fan of desexing males unless there is a need to.

Then, once he is 12 - 18 months of age, if you are having any behavioural difficulties with him and you were not sure whether they were attributed to hormones or not, you could have him implanted with the Suprelorin Implant (chemical castration -either 6 or 12 month chip), and see what response you got from that. It is temporary and would give you the answer you need to make a more permanent decision on leaving him entire or having him desexed.

Of course chemical castration is not a substitue for training, and I am not suggesting that, but I get the impression you are quite aware of the training involved in owning well balanced dogs.

Edited August 3, 2010 by dyzney

[Remarkabull]

Thanks dyzney, I have been following another thread on on the Suprelorin implant and it might be something to consider if we decide we want him desexed. Kind of 'try before you buy'! I guess even though I don't think all males need to be desexed I kind of bent under the pressure of family telling me I should get him desexed and also pressure from the trainer at the puppy pre-school we attended. In all honesty we probably wont get him done now unless it is for medical reasons as I've decided to stick with what has worked for me in the past and to hell with everyone else!

[Guest belgian.blue]

I have a 5 month old Pointer male at the moment and he won't be getting snipped atleast until he is past 12 months old.

His brother was done at 4 months old so I'm looking forward to seeing if there is any difference between the brothers in a few years. Though his brother does live in Canberra.

[OSoSwift]

I would hold off until he is mature, If I had to, 12 months would be the earliest.

As a general rule I do not deesex my males unless there is a medical reason. I have had entire dogs of different sexes and breeds and not had any issues as long as they were handled correctly ie bitches coming into season can be hormonal bitches that will try and pick fights etc. Our entire male was desexed for medical reasons and we now have Lewis who does not show any "male" behaviours apart from being interested in lovely smelly girls!