Canidae - Too High Protien?

[MalteseLuna]

I was thinking about switching to Canidae (salmon, grain free formula) as I'm finding that Luna is still itching/chewing her feet/weeping from her eyes on Eagle Pack (Sardine etc formula). I dislike the fact that Eagle Pack has beet pulp in it which can contribute to tear staining as well.

However I am worried at the very high protein levels - 41% for the Canidae compared to ~20% for the Eagle Pack.

Luna has had elevated ALT levels in the past - not a liver shunt but something might be going on. She is healthy so the specialist didn't want to continue with testing at this point. Would a high protein diet be a bad idea given her past elevated ALT levels? Note whilst they were elevated they were only slightly elevated and they started to normalize last year (she hasn't been tested this year yet - I generally test her every vet visit).

She had no tear staining and didn't lick her feet excessively until she was around 2 years old - for the last year she has been staining alot around her mouth, eyes and feet. Vet seems to not think it a big deal. She has been on Eagle Pack for the last 6-8 months but before that was on royal canin dental diet.

Does anyone have an alternative diet (besides raw - I wish to feed her a kibble/dry food) that might be hypoallergenic, high quality and grain free but without the high protein levels?

[poodlefan]

If you go grain free, as far as I can figure, all kibbles will have very high protein levels.

Artemis Maximal is around the 40% protein level too from memory.

[cj-b]

I was thinking about switching to Canidae (salmon, grain free formula) as I'm finding that Luna is still itching/chewing her feet/weeping from her eyes on Eagle Pack (Sardine etc formula). I dislike the fact that Eagle Pack has beet pulp in it which can contribute to tear staining as well.

However I am worried at the very high protein levels - 41% for the Canidae compared to ~20% for the Eagle Pack.

Luna has had elevated ALT levels in the past - not a liver shunt but something might be going on. She is healthy so the specialist didn't want to continue with testing at this point. Would a high protein diet be a bad idea given her past elevated ALT levels? Note whilst they were elevated they were only slightly elevated and they started to normalize last year (she hasn't been tested this year yet - I generally test her every vet visit).

She had no tear staining and didn't lick her feet excessively until she was around 2 years old - for the last year she has been staining alot around her mouth, eyes and feet. Vet seems to not think it a big deal. She has been on Eagle Pack for the last 6-8 months but before that was on royal canin dental diet.

Does anyone have an alternative diet (besides raw - I wish to feed her a kibble/dry food) that might be hypoallergenic, high quality and grain free but without the high protein levels?

There is California Natural, has very few ingredients, so less chance of it irritating allergies etc. There is a Herring and Sweet Potato, that is meant be really good. Unfortunately PetsParadise chains inc petgooddirect are the only people that stock it atm. And because of this it is rather expensive. But hopefully there time will be up soon, and someone will be able to stock it, as I would definitely give it a go. But if price isn't an issue for you, than it might be worth trying. Check out the website first.

[Ptolomy]

My little allergy girl does very well on Calafornia Natural Herring and Sweet Potato - but its $36 for just over a 2kg bag.

[MalteseLuna]

I really don't want to buy from PP or any of their stores ;)

I suspect that Luna has Microvascular Dysplasia (MVD) - meaning her liver doesn't filter properly. This is why she has elevated ALT levels but is generally in good health (and doesn't have a shunt). Apparently it's common in Maltese but has no real side effect (unless it's a severe case) except elevated ALT/Bile Acid levels. Don't think much is known about it here in Australia though.

Does anyone know if such a high protein diet would be bad for a dog with MVD?

Was thinking of alternatively trying a lamb or venison diet - neither of which Luna has had before.

Kylie

[karly101]

From what I understand .. yes a high protein diet would not be great for her ..... perhaps if you read labels carefully a senior one may be more suitable for her as they are generally reduced protein...

Would you consider one of the prescription diets (Hills l/d or k/d or Royal Canin - am not familiar with their range of low protein diets)...my friend put one of her dogs onto the k/d and he has been doing very well on it.

[Sagittarian]

If you want grain free with a lesser protein then Canidae ALS has 34%.

If you really want to stay closer to that 20%, then you won't find any grain free that comes close. The Canidae Lamb and Rice is 21% protein and like their other formulas, doesn't contain beet pulp.

Also beet pulp free are the whole Artemis range, and the new Earthborn Holistic range, which includes a full fish based dry food.

Sags

[stormie]

If you suspect food to be the cause, why don't you try doing a proper food elimination diet, rather than switching kibble?

[MalteseLuna]

If you suspect food to be the cause, why don't you try doing a proper food elimination diet, rather than switching kibble?

I'm not sure if it's food - tbh the fact that she is still staining on the eagle pack indicates to me that it might not be food at all (she was on royal canin dental when the staining started)... but it doesn't hurt to put her on as low allergen a diet as I can find right? I would prefer to feed a kibble as I am worried that I might mess up the ratios of nutrient or miss something she needs if I tried cooking something for her - If someone could point me to a EASY to make diet that isn't too messy (she is an indoor house dog with LONG white hair around her face) I might try it out though.

My vet isn't helpful - whenever I bring up the staining and feet chewing they just say 'oh it's nothing she probably just likes chewing her feet' or 'all white dogs stain'.

I've had her on the l/D science diet before but I don't like it and she doesn't need it - the vet and specialist have both said this.

Canidae ALS has 34% has it's protein from beef, lamb, chicken and turkey, I would prefer a single protein source i.e. just lamb or venesion or salmon.

[Sagittarian]

Canidae ALS has 34% has it's protein from beef, lamb, chicken and turkey, I would prefer a single protein source i.e. just lamb or venesion or salmon.

No beef in the product at all - animal protein sources are chicken, turkey, lamb & fish meal.

What about Artemis Maximal - it is chicken based, not mixed protein, and is grain free?

Maybe trial one food for a few weeks and keep an eye on the things that are of concern to you.

Sags

[Nekhbet]

if you're worried have the liver enzymes checked more regularly. Royal Canin make a low protein liver diet available through the veterinarian. Or you can try making your own diet.

Vets all natural make a skin and coat supplement you can add to the food, or there is a canine nutritional formula to fill the gaps.

Take a look at home made diets here

http://www.minschnauzer.com/diet/sunny.html#Part 2: Sunny's Miracle Diet Recipe

http://www.dogaware.com/health/liver.html#diet

the main diet will include white fish, rabbit, cottage cheese etc coupled with dietary fibre like rice and oatmeal.

[stormie]

If you suspect food to be the cause, why don't you try doing a proper food elimination diet, rather than switching kibble?

I'm not sure if it's food - tbh the fact that she is still staining on the eagle pack indicates to me that it might not be food at all (she was on royal canin dental when the staining started)... but it doesn't hurt to put her on as low allergen a diet as I can find right? I would prefer to feed a kibble as I am worried that I might mess up the ratios of nutrient or miss something she needs if I tried cooking something for her - If someone could point me to a EASY to make diet that isn't too messy (she is an indoor house dog with LONG white hair around her face) I might try it out though.

My vet isn't helpful - whenever I bring up the staining and feet chewing they just say 'oh it's nothing she probably just likes chewing her feet' or 'all white dogs stain'.

I've had her on the l/D science diet before but I don't like it and she doesn't need it - the vet and specialist have both said this.

Canidae ALS has 34% has it's protein from beef, lamb, chicken and turkey, I would prefer a single protein source i.e. just lamb or venesion or salmon.

Of course, a low allergen diet is definitely a good place to start, but I don't know I'd call those you've mentioned low allergen. And the Canidae you mentioned has Salmon, which is the same protein found in the Eagle Pack so you might just be wasting your money, particularly if it turns out Salmon is the culprit. I like Eukanuba's Fish/Potato in terms of an elimination diet, but probably not going to be that good for you seeing you've fed a fish based food already.

I am just really suggesting that if you're looking at food as a possible cause, then you'll need to find a kibble which contains no ingredients that were previously in other kibbles you've fed - it needs to be a completely new protein and carb source to do it properly.

With the feet being a primary issue though, I'd be inclined to think its more a contact issue - her feet are coming in contact with something which is inflaming them, causing her to want to lick, which then leads to further inflammation and bacterial overgrowth. I'd be regularly bathing her feet in a medicated shampoo and using something like Cortivance Spray, which is quite safe so long as you follow the directions, to control the inflammation.

As or for her eyes, the excess tearing could be an environmental thing, again with something in the environment like pollens etc irritating her eyes, causing them to tear.

I would also maybe suggest a second opinion from a vet who is a bit more open to working up her case rather than dismissing your concerns. Goodluck!!