Concurrent Litters

[fiveplusone]

Hope you don't mind me posting here but this topic came up in discussion yesterday so thought rather than assuming I should come here and ask the experts..

I am not making any judgements or implying anything at all, its simply a honest enquiry from someone who has no idea about breeding practices etc

Is it usual , common practice etc , for a registered breeder to have two litters at similar times, ie a currently a litter of 2 week old pups and a litter of six week old pups?

I thought this would have been something not usually done so thought I should get a clear answer instead of just assuming.

Thanks

Edit....to try and word it better!

Edited August 2, 2010 by fiveplusone

[Sandra777]

Depends very much on the breeder, the breed and their circumstances.

Many people find it easier to have a couple of litters at the same time - we only have so many holidays from work each year so if you can take the time off and raise two litters then it makes more sense than separating the litters and having to take a couple of weeks without pay to look after one or the other.

2 litters of Chihuahuas is a different proposition to 2 litters of Labradors in terms of space required, numbers, etc so you need to consider this too. Not saying anyone with two large litters at once is doing anything wrong, but it is a different proposition to 2 litters of 2 each!

If someone has an excellant breeding programme, breeds high quality dogs, does all the health testing, does everything right and they have the time and facilities to breed two-three-four-five litters at once - then why is it a problem if they do so?

Would you prefer everyone has only one litter a year, great breeders and useless ones????

I have had 2 litters at once on a number of occasions - it's a lot of work but makes sense for me. Oddly enough, I have 2 bitches here who are 5 years old, they are 6 weeks apart in age. Last November they both had litters, 2 days apart. So now I have 2 bitches here who are 8 months old and 2 days apart and who are quite likely to have a litter at the same time at some point in the future - maybe even on the same day

Edited August 2, 2010 by Sandra777

[MolassesLass]

I see nothing unethical about it. It makes sense to have litters on the ground at the same time; easier for taking time off work to look after them, get all the enquiries answering in one hit, all the home visits etc. in one go. Plus bitches of the same breed tend to come in season at the same time, if you want a litter from both, you'll end up with two close litters.

Obviously a breeder with only 1 breeding bitch wouldn't do it but the more bitches you have, the more litters you are likely to have and the more likely you would be to start combining the timing.

What specifically about it do you think could be "bad" so that it's not usually done?

[fiveplusone]

Depends very much on the breeder, the breed and their circumstances.

Many people find it easier to have a couple of litters at the same time - we only have so many holidays from work each year so if you can take the time off and raise two litters then it makes more sense than separating the litters and having to take a couple of weeks without pay to look after one or the other.

2 litters of Chihuahuas is a different proposition to 2 litters of Labradors in terms of space required, numbers, etc so you need to consider this too. Not saying anyone with two large litters at once is doing anything wrong, but it is a different proposition to 2 litters of 2 each!

If someone has an excellant breeding programme, breeds high quality dogs, does all the health testing, does everything right and they have the time and facilities to breed two-three-four-five litters at once - then why is it a problem if they do so?

Would you prefer everyone has only one litter a year, great breeders and useless ones????

I have had 2 litters at once on a number of occasions - it's a lot of work but makes sense for me. Oddly enough, I have 2 bitches here who are 5 years old, they are 6 weeks apart in age. Last November they both had litters, 2 days apart. So now I have 2 bitches here who are 8 months old and 2 days apart and who are quite likely to have a litter at the same time at some point in the future - maybe even on the same day

Thank you for your reply. As I said, it wasn't a judgement or an accusation if was pure and simple honest question because I don't know anything about breeding. It came up in conversation and the person who spoke to me didn't know what to make of it so I thought I would just ask.

What you have said about taking time of work etc makes perfect sense.

[ellz]

As above!

Depends upon breeder situation.

I had two litters here last year, one born 27th October, the next born 22nd November (different breeds). In the end there was only one puppy in the first litter so she was reared with the second litter, made it a lot easier to socialise her. She was pretty much bombproof when she left home!

There are breeders out there who should never even have ONE litter!!

[fiveplusone]

I didn't think it was specifically "bad" I just thought that with how much time, effort, money etc to have a litter that you would want to space them well apart, but you have both given me a better idea of why you would actually want two litters at similar times.

Maybe I have worded my enquiry badly.

Sorry, no offence intended.

Edited August 2, 2010 by fiveplusone

[MolassesLass]

None taken here fiveplusone, I only asked in case there was more info. I could have given you.

[fiveplusone]

None taken here fiveplusone, I only asked in case there was more info. I could have given you. :D

phew, good

I have probably also totally overlooked the fact that lots (?? most ??) registered breeders actually have other jobs outside of breeding that they would need to take time off from to attend to litters!

[armahani]

It's a good question, because there would probably be a lot of people curious about this, but in reality there can be any number of circumstances as to why a breeder does this.

For eg - my last two litters were about 6 weeks apart. Before that I hadn't had a litter in 18-24 months. After that (this was Oct/Dec 2009) I won't be having another litter until early to mid 2011. So you could hardly say my breeding was huge in scale :D .

My reasons would probably vary from anyone elses. But in my case, it had almost been 2 years since my import girl's first litter. She had been 2 1/2 when she had her first litter. I really wanted to ensure she was able to have three litters in her lifetime. So if I had left her second litter too much longer I was worried that I would limit my chances of enabling that before she got of any age where either I wasn't comfortable breeding her or her fertility would be reduced.

So I decided to go ahead when I did. Only thing is, I had a younger girl ready for a litter too. She was a girl I had sold on breeders terms. Her owner's were very keen for her to have her litter so they could then desex her. I really didn't feel that it was fair to leave them hanging any longer (they were getting quite anxious about their baby girl being "violated" by some boy dog - which became a bit of a joke amongst us, and they were actually very relieved when she ended up having an AI )

That left me having two litters around about the same time. Believe me, it was completely exhausting, and I was quite happy to have my house back at the end of it all. But on the other hand it did make it much easier for juggling leave from work etc than if they had been 6 months apart. In hindsight it was probably easier all round for me and I would consider doing it again depending on the circumstances.

[Christina]

My girls come in season together, or close. I try to breed 2 together. Little girls, little litters. I find it better if a problem did crop up I have another mum there. A singleton puppy which has happened has playmates.

Doubt I would do it with a breed that had big litters though. Socialising, toilet & lead training 15 or 20 pups would be all too hard for me.

[Kaffy Magee]

I have recently had 2 litters 4 days apart, resulting in 20 puppies. I know some have made comments to others about me being a puppy farmer! That really upsets me. I despise puppy farmers and bybs.

I have had two litters previously 2005 and 2008, I show my dogs regularly(both parents are Champions), I health test the parents, I wake up every few hours during the night to put puppies on their mums to feed as they are never left alone unsupervised with them, I take time off work to raise them, I do not sell to just anyone and the pet puppies are sterilised, because I care about them and never want them to end up as breeding machines. I wont be breeding again for about 3 years. What part of that says puppy farmer? Sorry for my rant, not directed at anyone, just pisses me off. I had two litters at once, not 10!

Both my girls came into season together as they usually do. And as I take time off to raise the puppies, it makes sense to only do it the once rather than twice in the year.

I also wanted a larger selection of males, so by having 2 litters it increased my chances of nice boys.

My girls are litter sisters and as I am not going to breed again for 3 years that would be too late for one girl to have a first litter. If I did them 6 months apart I would want to keep something from both litters and at the time of planning the matings I was not in a position to do that and I will not breed unless I can keep something. So my plan was to have the two and keep the best male overall. Turns out I got sucked in big time and kept 2 anyway, so much for my plan,lol.

Is there any difference in have one litter now and one 6 moths later, really? You are still having 2 litters, just going through the hard work twice rather than once.

I am not keeping a bitch this time simply becasue if I do, thats another bitch I have to breed in 3 years time, plus I would like a litter again from my current bitches, and for me its too much. Too much hard work,sleep deprivation, stress,worry and expense. Breeding is not something I want to do all the time. And for the record, I wont do two litters together again. It wouldnt be so bad if I had a small breed but 20 large breed puppies is one hell of a lot of work. How people do it all the time I dont know.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Kaffy Magee

[whippets]

Depends on the breeder. I prefer not to have litters within a short time frame mainly because I don't want them competing against each other in the same classes.

[Dogsfevr]

I didn't think it was specifically "bad" I just thought that with how much time, effort, money etc to have a litter that you would want to space them well apart, but you have both given me a better idea of why you would actually want two litters at similar times.

You don't get a choice ,remember bitches come in season in there own time not what is convenient for us.

We have 2 litters due a week apart from this week.These will be our only litters this year & our 4 bitches all cycle the same time so we have no choice to plan it to work better.

Also in many cases people will also factor there bitches cycle & the weather,we by choice don't like winter babies when it comes to them going to there new homes again this doesn't always work but if we can we prefer to have babies in the warmer weather .these pups will be ready to go late October which is lovely weather for a new bub & owners.

If we could push the come in season now button many of us would work it but that option doesn,t happen.

With our 2 bitches they also have been cycling 9 monthly

[Miss Danni]

We have had 2 litters 10 weeks apart in 2008 and it looks like we are about to have 2 litters 8 weeks apart in 2010.

In 2008, we mated our girl and then found out not long after that our import, who was still in Germany, had also come into season. As we were hoping to bring her out in whelp, we mated her, popped her on a plane, and sure enough, she had pups after her holiday in Quarantine and so there was 10 weeks between the litters. They were exhausting litters - 5 in the first that basically needed to be bottle fed because their mum had little milk after her caesarian and then 10 in the import litter, where I had problems with 2 pups who also needed round the clock care and I eventually lost them both.

This time around, we are dealing with age. We have a 7 year old bitch in partnership with another kennel. We have only owned her 2 years and they had their litter last year, so this year was our turn. She does not live with us, so we had to mate her whenever she came in. Her pups are now almost 3 weeks old.

The second bitch, we put her out on breeders terms when she was about 18 months old. I always think of her as being young but realised with horror that she is 4 this year!!! Her owners also want to spay her, so we decided that we would breed her as soon as she came into season this year. She was confirmed in whelp yesterday! So, as the pups from the first bitch start to go to their new homes, the pups from the second bitch will be coming into the world! 8 weeks apart!

I have had my kennel prefix since 1993 and these will be my 8th and 9th litters in that time. A puppy farmer I'm not, just a victim of unfortunate timings

[Christina]

I have recently had 2 litters 4 days apart, resulting in 20 puppies. I know some have made comments to others about me being a puppy farmer! That really upsets me. I despise puppy farmers and bybs.

I have had two litters previously 2005 and 2008, I show my dogs regularly(both parents are Champions), I health test the parents, I wake up every few hours during the night to put puppies on their mums to feed as they are never left alone unsupervised with them, I take time off work to raise them, I do not sell to just anyone and the pet puppies are sterilised, because I care about them and never want them to end up as breeding machines. I wont be breeding again for about 3 years. What part of that says puppy farmer? Sorry for my rant, not directed at anyone, just pisses me off. I had two litters at once, not 10!

Thats sad that you have to justify yourself for 2 litters.

Must have been heaps of hard work. :D at the poop scooping.

[fiveplusone]

Thank you all for your replies. I understand much better now!

[angelsun]

After almost three years of misses and absorbtions, I had two litters two days apart...reason..I figured one bitch would miss as was happening...as fate allowed..both had pups. It's a case of simply being able to manage them...some breeders barely handle one litter, but a friend of mine had three within two weeks of each other and managed so easily.

I was set up to manage two litters at the same time...not my idea of fun, but I did it from time to time as my girls tended to cycle at the same time as often happens. I would MUCH rather have two decent litters at the same time than one year where I ended up having four litters from January to December in the calendar year....all spaced nicely apart and without incident...now THAT was exhausting....I had a long period where I'd not had pups and had a long period after that I didn't breed....yes there were a few that snorted the words puppy farmer..so be it..I know what I am and how I breed and the ethics I carry....in this game, someone will always disagree no matter what you do, and others won't have any issues...the only one I have to satisfy is myself that I have done everything I could for my breeding program, no one else matters and I simply don't listen to the gossip that comes along regardless of what happens.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I have had 2 litters days apart. For the reasons stated here girls get their timing together. ;)

2 at once then none for a year.

Also to do with age of girls. One make be on her last litter and the youger a first and older helps the youger.

[nobul]

Some times you dont have a choice

Murphys law if 2 girls come in at the same time and you only mate one now and decide to do the other later , with out fail the first girl will miss and no puppies at all BUt then you can do as another has done mate both and end up with a heap of puppies and all the damm work that goes with it all !!!!!

Bitches can only be mated when they come in season for some girls this may mean every 6 moths but some every 9-14moths, so we kinda have no choice. If an 8 month girl comes in and you mate her, then the 14 month comes in and she is now getting ever older you cant really not mate her.

The closest i had was 1o days apart and that was a nightmare :D would i do it again, sure if i had too

[lillypilly]

Ok guys how about 7 litters all due within a few weeks. Now before you all think I am a lousy byb or a farmer these bitches are from a very recent puppy farm evacuation, and I operate a rescue.

We have a fantastic setup and the facilities to cope, and I am able to devote all my time to these mums and pups.

Lots of work, you bet and for the next 8 weeks of so I am going to be very busy. Of course with unknown matings, no history etc we may also encounter problems and perhaps a c-section or two.

Litter number one (foxy x chihuahua) had 4 pups and all appear healthy;

Litter number 2 (malt x poodle) no puppies survived;

The other litters are still to be born with subsequent litters due in the next few days.

I trust my post has not offended anyone, and I am happy to remove it if I have. The breeders on this forum have been of much help to me in the past, and I hope I may be able to add some more information to help those with more than one litter arriving within a small time frame.

edited for clarity

Edited August 3, 2010 by lillypilly