Argh...what Would You Do?--update :d

[Brennan's Mum]

My friend has a 16month old Belgian Tervueren female who is unspayed and on the 6th of August she is getting a 9 month old un neutered male Belgian Tervueren ( without papers). Before she thought about getting the male she was talking about having 'one' litter from her female because ''she is a good dog, has a good nature and you don't see many of them in Adelaide, plus the breeder's are all out of the city'. She says that there are a few people at the dog park she goes to that said they would take a pup.

When she first mentioned it I told her I did not think it was a good idea, I listed several reasons ranging from troubles that could happen in birth, to the fact that it is a lot of financial expenditure on her part to care for the mum and pups. I have friends who are registered breeders of Yorkshire terriers and West Highland White Terriers and I passed on a list of things that are to be expected/ or could happen with a litter of pups...including the fact that she may get a lot of people who had shown interest suddenly 'lose' interest in pups.

Heck the breeder of the Westies even offered to let her volunteer with an upcoming litter.

Well now that the male is coming next weekend she has again mentioned being interested in getting a litter from the dogs and selling all but one. I told her that she knows I don't like that idea and she got silent then said ''I know it would be a sh!t load of work''.

My question is what would you do? This is a great friend of mine--we have been friends for 23 years since Reception at school.

Is this a lost cause? should I pursue trying to educate her or do I give up for the sake of my friendship and for the fact I will be leaving the state in 4 months?

Or do I keep on at her for the sake of the as yet unbred puppies?

Edited August 10, 2010 by Brennan's Mum

[Ker]

I would keep on at her...gently.

Or send her to the rescue pages on DOL and make her look at the photos of the dogs in the pound. Yes, there are Belgians in there as well. It kills me that I can't get every dog out. Maybe she should think about the ones that are already dying for a home before bringing more into an already overpopulated world.

EFS

Edited August 1, 2010 by Ker

[rubiton]

Im more blunt Id be asking doesnt she care if her female dog has complications and dies as there is always that risk no matter how vigilant a 'newbie' is to breeding.

You dont have to lose the friendship over not agreeing - I work with people who think horse racing is evil but its basically an unsaid agreement thats a subject that wont be argued over again (it has in the past). However you have every right to say they are mad risking everything including thehealth of the female because she basically wants some 'cute puppies' for a while and gets to keep one.

[Staff'n'Toller]

This is a good link to send her.

I'm laughing but very serious at the same time.

[lanabanana]

Unfortunately, usually once someone has their heart set on doing soemthing they will go through with it anyway regardless of what others say.

I personally don't think it is worth losing a freindship over so if she has already decided she is definitely going to have a litter, I PERSONALLY would stop focusing on why she shouldn't have one and instead change tactics and start giving advice on how she can make sure the pups are as healthy as possible and get good homes etc etc.

[corvus]

I would keep my nose out of it. She's not doing anything illegal or cruel. If she's already lining up homes for them amongst people she knows, that's quite responsible, really. You have given her all the info at your disposal for her to make her own choice and she has obviously made it.

But personally, I would casually tell her about the poorly bred dog my parents have who I love dearly but has had a life of compromised quality due to health problems and how I feel that the breeder who so carelessly brought him into the world is guilty of cruelty to me and I would dearly like to make them responsible for that dog's suffering.

That's all I'd do, though. It's her dog and her choice.

[lovemesideways]

This is a good link to send her.

I'm laughing but very serious at the same time.

[Brennan's Mum]

Thanks Staff 'N'' Toller I have put it on my Facebook page.....'''just to share''

[jacqui835]

I would focus not so much on the possible health disasters - because although they can happen, that is not what would stop me because it's not like it's a bulldog etc, odds are the breeding and birthing will be the easy part. Instead, I would ensure that she is aware of just how many dogs die every year in our pounds, and make sure she understands that these are not bad dogs, all mixed breeds or even all old. Not that I think some dogs deserve to live more than others but just in case she tries to argue that the people down at the park are desperate for her purebred puppies - if they were super keen on the breed, they'd be making the effort to get quality ones from breeders after all. Show pictures, get the figures for the pounds. Ask her what she thinks makes her dog special enough to be bred, when that puts the lives of so many at risk. First there is the mother, then all of her puppies. Then what if, thinking it was so easy for your friend to sell the puppies and make money (given there aren't many around), the people who buy the puppies decide they think they should breed their dogs? Ask her could she really take the puppies back if the new owners couldn't handle them, or if they weren't providing the right sorts of homes. This is not an easy breed. I love my boy so much that that alone prevents me from breeding him. I couldn't bare to think of his offspring or relatives not leading the wonderful lives they would deserve in my opinion. And I have had some pretty impressive stud offers.

I was able to prevent a close family friend of my own from breeding her dogs through these arguments - 2 months ago she owned an entire male and female, now she owns 2 desexed dogs. Perseverance is key, make sure she realises this is a very serious matter and not to be undertaken lightly.

Good luck, at the end of the day you may not be able to change anything, and you don't need to feel guilty about that - at least you're trying

[oakway]

Any chance of getting the male de sexed before arrival.

If not, with NO papers tell her she could be breeding brother and sister and just leave it at that.

Edited August 1, 2010 by oakway

[tdierikx]

Has she discussed price with the people at the park that want a pup? They may change their minds if they have to part with real money...

T.

[Kirislin]

I am a registered breeder and I had a page of 10 people who said they wanted a puppy, not one of those people actually bought one once they were born. All had either changed their minds and got another breed or weren't really serious about wanting one in the first place, talk is cheap.

There were huge complications and I nearly lost my beloved Kibah, who had to have an emergency caesar and spey and was in intensive care for 3 days, and I had to hand raise 3 and foster off 4 pups. One pup was born dead, one died the next day. As they were growing one tore out a nail and cost a fortune in vet care. I could go on. As well as that I had to get one back and re home her at about 2 years old. Mine is the first breeders nightmare and I thought I was doing everything right. I had saved up alot of money in case of emergencies. I needed it. I estimate I was about $2000 out of pocket even after selling the puppies.

My recommendation to her is dont do it!!! Show her the link staffntoller posted and maybe get her to go to a shelter to see all the beautiful good natured, desperate dogs there. I hope she changes her mind.

[Gayle.]

What if the dog has 10, 12, 15 or more puppies, definitely a possibility with a larger dog? Will she be able to find homes for that many pups?

[chuckandsteve]

If she is house proud, tell her her house is going to stink cause it is. The Mum I had bleed for the 8 weeks. Just a little bit and you never knew when but all of a sudden blood on my walls. One puppy I had could poo on walls, it looked just like poo on the floor but on the wall.....

the litter I just had decided they like to sleep on newspaper and poo on their bed, which led to an incredible amount of cleaning and the owning of a huge number of beds. Some were also food agressive so 3 had to be feed on their own which meant 4 feeding times 3 times a day.

[chelle~aussie~dragon]

I think you need to weigh up your friendship.At the end of the day, while we on here are against byb, its not against the law and she can do what she likes with her own animals within the law.If this makes you feel that it the friendship not worth it, then I would be saying that and moving on.

Though I agree with you.If I decided to do this and knew the pros and cons and had a friend nagging at me I would be telling her to butt out.If you stay friends there will of course be the I told you so moment that is sure to happen but that doesn't help the puppies or mum by then.

Goodluck.

[Dory the Doted One]

You could also ask her what she is going to do if she sold her puppy to someone, it developed a hereditary disease common to the breed and the puppy was not able to live a long or healthy pain free exisistant. The owners of the puppy are suitably annoyed and hound and harangue her to do something about it. They ring non stop until she gives them back their money...or threaten to sue because they don't feel they have been sold something that met the expectation. They then go on to besmirch her name to any and all that would stand still long enough to hear their tale and experience of a 'bad breeder'.

[Christina]

There is nothing more you can say. She is going to do this.

Hopefully after one time she may be put off.

My friend who breeds & shows cat bought a pet shop puppy cross who would know better, didn't stop her.

After my short & very blunt say she thought I may fall out with her.

She is still the same friend I love so why would I.

Stupid yes but not enough to fall out over.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Christina

[rubiton]

That linkis brilliant - things to be aware of if wanting to breed dogs. And Im assuming a quick google search would also show that things going bad is not all that unusual.

[Gayle.]

My friend has a 16month old Belgian Tervueren female who is unspayed and on the 6th of August she is getting a 9 month old un neutered male Belgian Tervueren ( without papers). Before she thought about getting the male she was talking about having 'one' litter from her female because ''she is a good dog, has a good nature and you don't see many of them in Adelaide, plus the breeder's are all out of the city'. She says that there are a few people at the dog park she goes to that said they would take a pup.

You might just want to hint that one of the reasons you don't see a lot of certain breeds is because there's not a lot of people who want them. Rare doesn't always equal desirable, sometimes it equals complete lack of interest.

[Danois]

I'd stay out of it and also not keep on about it. At the end of the day what she is planning on doing is not illegal - more a moral issue and it cannot be expected that everyone has the same views on things.

I have some friends which do things I don't agree with - I simply keep my mouth shut as its none of my business how they choose to live their life.