Training Collars (prong Collars)

[Mr Krinkle]

Hi,

I have been using a prong type collar on my dog for the past four years and today someone at the Animal Welfare League told me that they were now illegal and i could get fined for having one. From memory the obedience school i bought the collar from said it was only illegal for individuals to import them, as to limit the import of potential dangerous collars, ie collars with sharp prngs on them.

If they are illegal could someone please point me towards the regulations making them illegal. I have browsed the Prevention to Cruelty to Animals Act 1985 but can't find anything in there.

Thanks.

[KitKat]

As far as i know it's illegal for those in QLD to import them without a licence, but there is nothing to say you can't use one - however local groups (CCCQ, RSPCA etc) won't allow you to use them in their training/showing/etc.

[huski]

Are you in QLD? If so, there is nothing illegal about using a prong collar. The only place they are banned is VIC.

[Erny]

Only place in the World where use of these collars are banned is ....... yup, Victoria . Shame, because for the sake of dog's welfare, there is definitely a place for these collars. Silly decision makers. It was a political move, IMO, not one where the welfare of dogs was truly at the core.

So you're fine to use them in QLD.

There are some Clubs that ban their use - but that is policy, not law.

Oh - and I've heard several times from different sources that the RSPCA representative/s tell people the use of these collars are banned as well.

Seems that there are those who either (a) don't know the laws when they should; or (b) prefer to let slip these porkpies because that's their opinion, as inexperienced or unknowledgeable as I might think it to be. Or both.

ETA: KitKat is right. They are illegal to import without a licence. If you purchase from OS there stands a good chance that your purchase order will be ceased by Customs once it lands in Australia.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Erny

[Mr Krinkle]

Are you in QLD? If so, there is nothing illegal about using a prong collar. The only place they are banned is VIC.

Sorry, I'm in South Australia, I only joined the forum today and i think QLD was the default setting for state

[Dory the Doted One]

As far as I know it is not illegal to use them in SA. Plenty of people will tell you that they are, especially those working for AWL or RSPCA. There are many obedience clubs that won't allow the use of them on their fields. Espcially those affliated with DogsSA, plenty of their members still use them though.

I know of a couple of training establishments in SA that seem to hand them out to nearly all of their clients. Which concerns me.

I think they are very useful training tools and definately have their place. But I have seen a lot of them on dogs that didn't really need them if their owners put in the necessary work in the first place.

The average person has no idea what they are, but if you are worried you could always hide it under a bandana or make a special cover for it.

[Erny]

Are you in QLD? If so, there is nothing illegal about using a prong collar. The only place they are banned is VIC.

Sorry, I'm in South Australia, I only joined the forum today and i think QLD was the default setting for state

As per above, they are ONLY banned for use on dogs in Victoria.

[Erny]

But I have seen a lot of them on dogs that didn't really need them if their owners put in the necessary work in the first place.

The average person has no idea what they are, but if you are worried you could always hide it under a bandana or make a special cover for it.

If the dog doesn't need one, then it only doesn't need to be used. Doesn't matter if the dog is wearing it in case it might ever be needed. But I think I know what you mean. I'm not against the use of training collar corrections, but some people rely on them too heavily.

[Christina]

No idea, not a thing I would ever consider using but what I am curious about is

Why do you still need to use it to walk your dog after 4 years ?

Obviously as a training tool its not working. Time to find a different trainer I think.

[Erny]

... what I am curious about is why do you still need to use it to walk your dog after 4 years ?

Obviously as a training tool its not working. Time to find a different trainer I think.

Again .... "use" and "wear" are two different things.

Where in the OP's post does it say the use of the PPCollar hasn't worked? Was that an assumption or did I miss it somewhere? And remember that training never stops. I might walk my boy in a flat collar in certain environments and in certain situations, but in others I might switch back to his martingale in case it might be required. . Rather have it and not need it, that need it and not have it.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Erny

[BigDaz]

But I think I know what you mean. I'm not against the use of training collar corrections, but some people rely on them too heavily.

I have never seen a Prong Collar so I am happy to be wrong, but they look like they could inflict some pain. As such I have no issues with a trained professional, or even someone with common sense using them, but arent we under an obligation to protect dogs from morons, so banning them is not such a bad idea.

Its like banning smoking in cars with kids, we shouldnt need to legislate it, but because there are so many idiots out there it needs to be done.

[Dory the Doted One]

But I have seen a lot of them on dogs that didn't really need them if their owners put in the necessary work in the first place.

The average person has no idea what they are, but if you are worried you could always hide it under a bandana or make a special cover for it.

If the dog doesn't need one, then it only doesn't need to be used. Doesn't matter if the dog is wearing it in case it might ever be needed. But I think I know what you mean. I'm not against the use of training collar corrections, but some people rely on them too heavily.

Exactly, Erny.

No idea, not a thing I would ever consider using but what I am curious about is

Why do you still need to use it to walk your dog after 4 years ?

Obviously as a training tool its not working. Time to find a different trainer I think.

They could be using it because of a physical disablity. Some people just don't have the necessary strength to give an adequate correction (or reminder) when needed.

[Dory the Doted One]

But I think I know what you mean. I'm not against the use of training collar corrections, but some people rely on them too heavily.

I have never seen a Prong Collar so I am happy to be wrong, but they look like they could inflict some pain. As such I have no issues with a trained professional, or even someone with common sense using them, but arent we under an obligation to protect dogs from morons, so banning them is not such a bad idea.

Its like banning smoking in cars with kids, we shouldnt need to legislate it, but because there are so many idiots out there it needs to be done.

I think there are enough checks in place that we don't need to ban these collars. They aren't that readily available, and I've seen worse reactions from dogs with choke chains (oh...sorry CORRECTION chains ) that I'd ban them before I'd ban a prong collar. I've only seen a prong collar used in d*ckhead fashion once...and that was by a professional trainer!!! I've seen plenty of novices use them quite capabably.

Now again....correction chains....I've seen them abused so many times it makes me wince, yet we see not a mention of them being banned.

I don't think prong collars should be a first port of call for behaviour problems, but I think it would be a sad day for dogdom if they should ever be banned. I've seen them save dogs lives.

I wouldn't want to see them available on petshop shelves though. Purchased through an approprately experienced dog trainer...sure.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I'm with Dory the Doted one

I'd ban slip collars before I banned prong collars. Prong collars work on a system of pinching, not choking. So long as the prongs are flat and rounded and don't cut in, they're fine. But you do need to be trained how to use them properly. The same as with the slip/choke collars.

So again, only available from trainers to trained people.

But I've mainly seen them on dogs that are much stronger and sometimes heavier than their owners. And you never know what is going to freak a dog out or when, so rather a prong collar than being dragged into the path of an oncoming train or truck.

[KitKat]

I'd be just as likely to want to ban halti's before prong collars or check chains - any and all can be used badly - but it's not the training tool that's makes them an issue...it's the tool on the other end of the lead!

I recently saw a GSD in a halti - you could tell it has been used incorrectly over a period of time - partly due to the wear on the halti itself, but also due to the wear on the dog's muzzle and disruption it was causing to the dogs eye. It was all i could do not to rip the damn thing off of the dogs face The owners thought they were doing the right thing and still do, i wasn't in a good position to say much other then that they may need to look at a new better fitting halti I've also seen a prong used incorrectly - but it was due to the person not the tool - and i was even in less of a place to say anything that time!

[Erny]

I have never seen a Prong Collar so I am happy to be wrong, but they look like they could inflict some pain.

So do head collars

So do stop-pull harnesses

So do check chains

So do martingales

PPCollars apply discomfort just like the rest of our training tools. The difference is that they apply it to the skin which is good, because that is where most of our sensitive nocireceptors are. Which means a desired response is more likely without the physical correction being required to be as strong as it might need to be with many of the other of the listed training tools. Which means less/no impact on muscle or skeletal structure yet also, in many instances, faster learning which is often for the good of the dog in the shorter and longer term.

The Victorian Government, in the documentation back from when the PPCollar use was banned, confirmed that "There is no reported evidence of harm" from the use of the PPCollar.

Can't say the same for the other of the freely available and accepted (by those who poo poo the PPCollar) training tools. All of which, mind, still have their place, but just like the PPCollar, need to be used with wisdom and empathy.

But our current Victorian Government (who might not be the Govt come 27th November) went ahead and passed the ban, notwithstanding many objections to the regulation by the knowing public. As I mentioned - if you could read what I've read, it HAS to be a political move and nothing to do with the best interests of animal welfare at heart.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Erny

[Red Fox]

Completely legal in SA

I've had an instructor tell me that same thing. Rubbish! They might not like them but doesn't make it true

I have never seen a Prong Collar so I am happy to be wrong, but they look like they could inflict some pain. As such I have no issues with a trained professional, or even someone with common sense using them, but arent we under an obligation to protect dogs from morons, so banning them is not such a bad idea.

Its like banning smoking in cars with kids, we shouldnt need to legislate it, but because there are so many idiots out there it needs to be done.

As has already been said - prong collars are not readily available like some other "training tools". Any idiot can buy a halti and abuse it (and many do) but most people would have no idea what a prong collar is let alone where to buy one. And generally the trainers that sell them are pretty good at ensuring that the buyer knows how to use it.

If you've never seen or used a prong they are far from painful (when used correctly) and a hell of a lot safer than check chains or haltis... I know which one I'd rather wear

[MelissaS]

I'm taking my newest edition to puppy school.

I asked the vet nurse about prong collars in general, she told me they were illegal and barbaric.She was very opposed to them-got quite worked up.

However, I have seen an excellent trainer (one of DOL's favs) use them many times on many various dogs and it was very effective and not damaging the dog.

I did use a prong on my middle dog when initially training her as she was a nightmare adult rescue dog. I don't need to use it on her now.

I was shown how to use it correctly and have seen first hand they can be a great training tool.It depends on the trainer if it's used correctly and responsibly.

[felix]

I used the prong collar before. IMO it is much more effective than any other training collar.

I also used it for bike rides with a dog. That was the only way I was sure she was not going to accidentally pull me down on the street.

[felix]

Oh, and I don't think they inflict any pain at all. Standard choke chains, and especially halties, can be much worse (IMO again).